What is the difference between "Nissa, Amraat and Azwaj"
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@Samia & JM, Both of you are free to contact the publishers of the Grammatical Analysis of the Holy Quran and Dr. Tantawi and Sheikh Abou'Oubayya at Al-Azhar University to express your concern regarding the Subject Pronoun analysis and reference of the following words in Sura An-Nisa 434
Their contact information is in the preface.
Moreover, there's nothing on this page about Subject Pronouns, and there couldn't be, since these pronouns are either mudaf ilaihi (second part of idafa construction) or direct object, according to the page you pasted. The book speaks in abbreviations, so the word (pronoun) is already abbreviated by a big dot between brackets. How did it write (Subject Pronoun)?
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Samia, Good try.....your becoming predictable, when confronted with something you don't know or understand, you feel compelled to 'assassinate' the messenger. Its fine Samia, its common human behavior, when the truth is being conveyed.
But your initial 'issue' was......
"How on earth can "hunna" be a "mubtada' initial noun" when it's suffixed to a verb? And you changed your mind about it being the subject/doer?
4- Frankly speaking, I was never taught this, nor have I read such an expression in grammarIm asking you as a moderator, to provide evidence supporting your bizarre grammatical analysis"
Well, Now you have been taught that Hunna is Feminine Plural , Subject Pronoun
Moving on....
It obvious someone gave you all of this minutia....isolated facts that are considered separate (irrelevant) from the point
Look under the first in (nushuuzahunna) what does it say? Do you understand what means? (second part of a possessive construct)
Look under the second in This word is divided into 4 parts
We read der it
We read under it , which means (imeratif in the jussif by deletion of the nuun)
(و The wau is the subject/agent/doer
We read . which stands for direct objectThen there is which stands for (assumed predicate this is the grammaticl position for the whole word/sentence )
@Samia, you did NOT even take the time to read and study what they gave you!
part (beginning) of the Idafa Construct, Possessive Case (Mudaf and Mudaf Ilayh)
Now back to the point...
@Samia, My question to you, are you in agreement that Hunna is a Subject Pronoun, 'isolated' pronoun?
I await your answer to this question
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Samia, Good try.....your becoming predictable, when confronted with something you don't know or understand, you feel compelled to 'assassinate' the messenger.
Yes, when the mesenger is a fake . I have no problem with the message, (the page you copied).
Well, Now you have been taught that Hunna is Feminine Plural , Subject Pronoun
What nonesense! If anyone understood this gibberish, please explain
Moving on....
It obvious someone gave you all of this minutia....isolated facts that are considered separate (irrelevant) from the point
Look under the first in (nushuuzahunna) what does it say? Do you understand what means? (second part of a possessive construct)
Look under the second in This word is divided into 4 parts
We read der it
We read under it , which means (imeratif in the jussif by deletion of the nuun)
(و The wau is the subject/agent/doer
We read . which stands for direct objectThen there is which stands for (assumed predicate this is the grammaticl position for the whole word/sentence )
Very sad state of ignorance! You do not know where I got this "minutia"? It's all written on the page you scanned . Truely some people are ( like a donkey carrying scriptures)
@Samia, My question to you, are you in agreement that Hunna is a Subject Pronoun, 'isolated' pronoun?
Now do not deviate from the issue. Do you see (hunna ) used as an isolated pronoun in this verse in question?
My question to you as a moderator
- Do you accept that your grammatical analysis of this verse (just for now) is completely wrong?
- Do you admit that you highlighted the wrong correspondng analysis to falsely prove yourself right, even if this results in misleading other members?
This is not an invitation to you to enter into a grammatical or any discussion with me. I am done with discussing with you on this thread or any other thread.
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Assalaam Alaikum Bismi'lahi Ar Rahman Ar Raheem
@Samia, I could careless whether you are the moderator or Queen of All Moderators, you have a problem with admitting that you are wrong.
The truth (is) from ALLAH alone; so be not of those who doubt.
If any one disputes in this matter with you, after knowledge has come to you, say. ? come! Let us gather together,-- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves. then let us earnestly pray, and CALL THE CURSE OF ALLAH ON THOSE WHO LIE!?
This is the true account. There is no god except Allah; and Allah-He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.
Your argument now Samia is with the Quran NOT me.
Now, instead of slandering me, bring some evidence to disprove what I have presented.
If you don't....
And if they turn away - behold, Allah has full knowledge of the spreaders of corruption.
Fain tawallaw fainna Allaha AAaleemun bialmufsideena
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Salaam Muslimtruthrevealed,
In these three expressions, any one with a very small knowledge of Arabic language can easily understand that the subject (the doer of the action) is ?antum? ?you? represented by the letter ?? ?wau?.
I have no background in Arabic Grammar but I can easily see that.
You either, now nothing in Arabic language and Arabic grammar or you are twisting the meanings.
You are 100% wrong and Samia is 100% correct. Please you have to apologize to all for your mistake.
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http//img301.imageshack.us/img301/5464/grammaticalbooknr0.th.jpg http//img99.imageshack.us/img99/7767/sura434grammaticalanalyhf6.th.jpg
Excuse me, your kidding right?
Its Hunna NOT 'antum'. I dont know where you see 'antum', because its NOT there.
Im not sure why the ?? ?wau? is giving you folks so much grief, its merely a marker denoting the end of the intransitive verb and the pointer to the subject, Hunna . Just look at the other references to in the scan.
When separate object pronouns (i.e. Hunna ) serve as direct object pronouns they must come BEFORE the verb. Hunna is NOT a direct object, thus it is NOT in the Accusative Case with these verbs
Hunna is NOT a direct object because it comes AFTER the verb I?DRIBU , which is Intransitive and ONLY requires a Subject, Hunna
Again, Active Verb, the action is directed outward from the subject (Hunna ), which means that the subject (Hunna ) performs the action but does not receive it.
Thus, Hunna is the Subject and Agent of the verb I?DRIBU
I believe the other verbs associated with the subject Hunna are Intransitive also
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Peace all --
Browse Root and choose best meaning without contradicting rest of Quran.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob.php?root=%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8%0D
Waidriboohunna
And leave them (f) alone/be; believers do not hit their women and mother of their children whom they are entrusted to protect.
3918
Those who hear/listen (to) the word/opinion and belief so they follow its best, those are, those whom God guided them, and those, they are of the pure minds/hearts. -
Peace all --
Browse Root and choose best meaning without contradicting rest of Quran.
http//www.openburhan.net/ob.php?root=%D8%B6%D8%B1%D8%A8%0D
Waidriboohunna
And leave them (f) alone/be; believers do not hit their women and mother of their children whom they are entrusted to protect.
3918
Those who hear/listen (to) the word/opinion and belief so they follow its best, those are, those whom God guided them, and those, they are of the pure minds/hearts.How about, "Those who hear and listen and pick up/select what suits them"
Holiday! can you show me anywhere where this word is used for the meaning leaving them alone, In quran?
siki
To travel, to get out 3156; 4101; 3844; 7320; 2273
To strike 260,73; 7160; 812; 2077; 2431; 2663; 3793; 474
To beat 850; 4727
To set up 4358; 5713
To give (examples) 1424,45; 1675,76,112; 1832,45; 2435; 3028,58; 3678; 3927,29; 4317; 5921; 6610,11
To take away, to ignore 435
To condemn 261
To seal, to draw over 1811
To cover 2431
To explain 1317
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How about, "Those who hear and listen and pick up/select what suits them"
Holiday! can you show me anywhere where this word is used for the meaning leaving them alone, In quran?
siki
Peace Siki,
58 instances of the word along with examples set forth ( DaRaBa) on how to behave in Quran and you choose strike/beat them as in 812 smack them across the head and smash their every finger/tip?
226
260
261
273
2273
3112
3156
434
494
4101
5106
7160
812
850
1317
1424
1425
1445
1674
1675
1676
16112
1748
1811
1832
1845
2077
2273
2431
2435
259
2539
2663
2943
3028
3058
3613
3678
3793
3844
3927
3929
435
4317
4357
4358
473
474
4727
5713
5921
6610
6611
7320Read between the word and fit best meaning?
so advise them (F) and desert/abandon them (F) in the place of lying down,
waidriboohunna (F),
so if they obeyed you, so do not oppress/transgress on them (F)
a way/method, that God was/is high, mighty/great.If they do not get along/obey; what are examples set forth (daraba sunah) in Quran other than travel/ignore or leave them alone be kind divorce peacefully?
3328 O you the prophet, say to your wives "If you were (F) wanting (F) the life the present/worldly life and its decoration/beauty, so come, I make you (F) enjoy, I divorce/free you (F), divorce/freeing gracefully (peaceful/quiet)."
2229 The divorce (is) two times/twice, so holding/clinging/refraining (the marriage) with kindness/generosity or divorcing/releasing with goodness, and (it is) not permitted/allowed that you (M) to take/receive from what you gave them (F) a thing, except that they (B) fear that (they) do not take care of (B) God's limits/boundaries , so if you feared (that they) do not take care of (B) God's limits/boundaries , so no offense/sin on them (B) in what she ransomed/compensated with it. Those are God's limits/boundaries , so do not transgress/violate it, and who transgresses/violates God's limits/boundaries , so those are, they are the unjust/oppressive.
2231 And if you divorced the women, so they reached their term/time, so hold/grasp them (F) with kindness/generosity or divorce/release them (F) with kindness/generosity, and do not hold/grasp them (F) harming to transgress/violate, and who makes/does that, so he had caused injustice/oppression (to) himself. And do not take God's verses/evidences mockingly , and mention/remember God's blessing on you, and what He descended on you from The Book and the wisdom , He advises/warns you with it, and fear and obey God, and know that God (is) with every thing knowledgeable.
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Arabic is much more than picking a word of our suiting from the dictionary and replacing it in a verse according to what we think should be correct, had it been like that , life could have been very easy.
I had asked you which meaning you think fits here other than strike/beat? and please prove it that it fits grammatically as well as in the context.
what you are advocating is in the next verse, but beating stage is before that
4-35 If a couple fears separation, you shall appoint an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family; if they decide to reconcile, GOD will help them get together. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.
siki
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Arabic is much more than picking a word of our suiting from the dictionary and replacing it in a verse according to what we think should be correct, had it been like that , life could have been very easy.
I had asked you which meaning you think fits here other than strike/beat? and please prove it that it fits grammatically as well as in the context.
what you are advocating is in the next verse, but beating stage is before that
4-35 If a couple fears separation, you shall appoint an arbitrator from his family and an arbitrator from her family; if they decide to reconcile, GOD will help them get together. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.
siki
Context/cross reference without contradiction less about the Arabic language of the messenger; Quran did not come with Hans Wehr dictionary.
Let?s turn it around; prove it means beat/strike according to Quran without contradicting Quran?
I showed evidences to live with them if no divorce and/or after divorce;
...so hold/grasp them (F) with kindness/generosity or divorce/release them (F) with kindness/generosity,
...and do not hold/grasp them (F) harming to transgress,
...and who makes/does that, so he had caused injustice (to) himself.
Peace
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To beat is the meaning that most of the translators agree upon and that is how it is/was understood, it is you , who is coming out with something new(which i do not know what it is), so the burden of proof is upon you.
so kindly suggest an alternate meaning, which fits in better than strike, and believe me i shall be the happiest person, and the first one to accept it.
siki
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To beat is the meaning that most of the translators agree upon and that is how it is/was understood, it is you , who is coming out with something new(which i do not know what it is), so the burden of proof is upon you.
so kindly suggest an alternate meaning, which fits in better than strike, and believe me i shall be the happiest person, and the first one to accept it.
siki
Peace Siki,
You are confronting Holiday with what the majority is doing.But Quran in 6.116 says
"Now if you pay heed to, or get intimidated by majority of those who live on earth, they will lead you astray from God?s way. Most of the people follow nothing but conjecture and they only live by guesswork" -
To beat is the meaning that most of the translators agree upon and that is how it is/was understood, it is you , who is coming out with something new(which i do not know what it is), so the burden of proof is upon you.
so kindly suggest an alternate meaning, which fits in better than strike, and believe me i shall be the happiest person, and the first one to accept it.
siki
See http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7439.msg50832#msg50832
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Salaam All,
(ج (zawj) Primarily signifies a sort of any thing or kind (that is one of a pair or couple)
(ن (zawjan) signifies a pair or couple. e.i. any two things paired or coupled together whether they be likes or contraries.
(ج (azwaj) is the plural of zawj.( م (zawjan min hamam) means a pair of pigeons.
(ن (zawjayn) is used in Quran (11.40 and 23.27) meaning a male and female (a couple)1140 Thus it was until Our command came to pass. Waters gushed forth in torrents over the face of the land. Torrential rain began and the rivers started over flowing. We commanded Noah to take with him livestock, a couple each, and to take his family and followers with him. The rejecters, of course, were not to embark. The community of believers with Noah was small.
( ف (zawjan min kheefaf) signifies a pair of boots.
A man and his wife together are termed zawjan (ن
And in Quran (39.6, 6.143, 6.144) ( ٍ (thamaneeyata azwaj) means eight ones (of pairs or couples)
Two sheep, one male and one female, two goats, one male and one female two camels, one male and one female, two cows, one male and one female. (Altogether 4 pairs)So zawj is one of the pairs. A left shoe is a zawj. A right shoe is a zawj. Both of them together are zawjayn.
A husband is a zawj. A wife is a zawj (it is also called zawja). Both the husband and wife together are called zawjayn.
The left shoe and the right shoe are equal. The right shoe can not be used instead of the left shoe and visa versa. They complete each other. One can not form a pair (zawjayn) of shoes from one left shoe and two ore more right shoes.
A pair (zawjayn) is formed by one husband and one wife. One husband and two wives or one wife and two husbands can not form a (zawjayn) pair.
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Salaam All,
A husband is a zawj. A wife is a zawj (it is also called zawja). Both the husband and wife together are called zawjayn.
The left shoe and the right shoe are equal. The right shoe can not be used instead of the left shoe and visa versa. They complete each other. One can not form a pair (zawjayn) of shoes from one left shoe and two ore more right shoes.
A pair (zawjayn) is formed by one husband and one wife. One husband and two wives or one wife and two husbands can not form a (zawjayn) pair.
This is a very simple, correct and to the point explanation! Thank you Tlepsh. I hope this puts poly-zawj in a couple to rest
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;D I guess shoes are in business these days, specially size 10,
How can you derive deductions of your own suiting being in knowledge of verse , 4-23, specially you samia ?
Ladies! you have biases so deep entrenched, that you would not care, even if it amounts to defying God's clear verdicts/commandments. Exactly like that, you would not care if father of your children commits adultery and hence may be doomed to Hell ultimately, you can reconcile with this, provided he does not marry her.
What a pity , what a shame? I am terribly disappointed, (
4-23...................Wa un Tajammao , bainul Akhtain,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and do not collect two sisters at a time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
siki
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AThe left shoe and the right shoe are equal. The right shoe can not be used instead of the left shoe and visa versa. They complete each other. One can not form a pair (zawjayn) of shoes from one left shoe and two ore more right shoes.
A pair (zawjayn) is formed by one husband and one wife. One husband and two wives or one wife and two husbands can not form a (zawjayn) pair.
hmm How on earth left sandle and right shoe can be equal, one is high and the other is laugh
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;D I guess shoes are in business these days, specially size 10,
How can you derive deductions of your own suiting being in knowledge of verse , 4-23, specially you samia ?
4-23...................Wa un Tajammao , bainul Akhtain,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and do not collect two sisters at a time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
siki
Verse 4-23 does not contradict my opinion about polygamy as being restricted to a specific condition This already restricted condition is further restricted If the mother of the fatherless child (whom you are allowed to marry even if you are married) happens to be a sister of your wife, do not marry her.
Ladies! you have biases so deep entrenched, that you would not care, even if it amounts to defying God's clear verdicts/commandments. Exactly like that, you would not care if father of your children commits adultery and hence may be doomed to Hell ultimately, you can reconcile with this, provided he does not marry her.
If one of us has to go to hell, let the rat be the one. Why would I and the children go to hell so that he might get married again, and for no reason as stated in the verse? He should learn to control his desires. Just like the logic of covering women so that men do not "sin with their eyes". I say again, I am covering no head or hair, and if they do not learn how to cast their eyes, let them go to hell.
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;D I guess shoes are in business these days, specially size 10,
How can you derive deductions of your own suiting being in knowledge of verse , 4-23, specially you samia ?
Ladies! you have biases so deep entrenched, that you would not care, even if it amounts to defying God's clear verdicts/commandments. Exactly like that, you would not care if father of your children commits adultery and hence may be doomed to Hell ultimately, you can reconcile with this, provided he does not marry her.
What a pity , what a shame? I am terribly disappointed, (
4-23...................Wa un Tajammao , bainul Akhtain,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and do not collect two sisters at a time,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
siki
Peace Siki,
Will you please show me where is the expression ?at a time? in verse 4.23?