Was Satan avoiding shirk when he refused to prostrate towards Adam?

clashncruz

Salaam everyone!

I hope you are all doing well.

I have had this question concerning a story in the Qur'an for a while now and I would be very interested to see what every one here has to say about it.

These are the verses of the story I am referring to

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"And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees (Satan). He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers." 234

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"And We have certainly created you, , and given you form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated." 711

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" said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I commanded you?" said, "I am better than him. You created me from fire and created him from clay."" 712

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"Except Iblees, he refused to be with those who prostrated." 1531

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" said, O Iblees, what is with you that you are not with those who prostrate?" 1532

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"He said, "Never would I prostrate to a human whom You created out of clay from an altered black mud."" 1533

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"And when We said to the angles, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He said, "Should I prostrate to one You created from clay?"" 1761

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"(Allah) said "O Iblis (Satan)! What prevents you from prostrating yourself to one whom I have created with Both My Hands. Are you too proud (to fall prostrate to Adam) or are you one of the high exalted?"" 3875

Ok so you all probably already know this story. My questions regarding this story are as follows

Why would Allah order any of his servants, including the angels, to prostrate towards anything but Allah?
Is Iblis then avoiding shirk by not prostrating towards Adam?
It says it is because he was arrogant not because he was trying to avoid shirk. So does it have something to do with customs of the region at that time? Remember in the bible people prostrated themselves before other people all the time, kings, priests, prophets, holy men... is this shirk?
Would you prostrate yourself to another human being?

I am very interested to see what everyone thinks about this story and these questions.

Thank you in advance for you time and patience in go over this material.

Peace!

Mazhar

Root

Affectionate surrender of one's will and freedom/liberty-Forehead on the ground.

Basic initial meanings Feel of reverence and its expression through physical gesture-body language-lowering of head in state chin moving towards chest and gaze going down. It is a relational word-a relationship between the Reverent and the Revered. Reverent and the Revered could be any object or person.
Advanced meanings in the changed relational field when the Revered is the Only One-The Absolute-The Only Independent-The Self Subsisting-The Creator-The Supreme Exalted-Sovereign Sustainer Lord of the Universes, and the Reverent are all objects and living-all that exists in the created realm. Here the meanings, while retaining the basic perception, advance into its extreme limits-Prostration.
Sublime and sincere Prostration of human beings-Bowing and curving to lay the forehead on the Earth denoting absolute surrender and sublime adoration.
Laying of Forehead on ground relays non verbal signal of surrender of granted Freedom and Will of decision and self governing to the Sustainer Lord.
The Laying of Forehead on ground yields bridging the distance to get nearer to the Sustainer Lord.

Root

kylixguru

Ok so you all probably already know this story. My questions regarding this story are as follows

Why would Allah order any of his servants, including the angels, to prostrate towards anything but Allah?
Adam was created in the exact same image and likeness of God. Thus, in effect, Adam was to be revered as God. I don't view Adam as having been merely one mortal person either. I view Adam as a being of flesh and bone, which is different than a body of flesh and blood like we have. If you know the difference between flesh and bone and flesh and blood, then the Adam and Eve narrative can make a lot more sense in an explicit way. It isn't just an allegory. It is a very precise narrative speaking of a literal and tangible reality.
Is Iblis then avoiding shirk by not prostrating towards Adam?
This is simply the same kind of jealousy that Cain had over Abel. Adam was made king of the Father's Kingdom on earth and the Serpent fancied himself as the ruler of the world so there was indeed conflict here. The Serpent viewed Adam as a usurper to come to earth and labor to "subdue" it under this new dominion that God gave to Adam.
It says it is because he was arrogant not because he was trying to avoid shirk. So does it have something to do with customs of the region at that time? Remember in the bible people prostrated themselves before other people all the time, kings, priests, prophets, holy men... is this shirk?
This is simply because the Serpent did not want to recognize the kingly dominion that God gave to Adam.
Would you prostrate yourself to another human being?
No. I would not. But, if God has authorized and ordained human beings into a body of priesthood authority with clear and specific objectives, I most definitely would give them whatever due respect God required of me.

Adam wasn't an ordinary human being. In essence, you can think of Adam as what I referred to above. A body of flesh and bone is what Paul describes in the New Testament book of Ephesians 530 where he says that the body of Christ of flesh and bone is composed of individuals as members and that group together collectively should be regarded as such.

mmkhan

Salaam clashncruz,

Please take a look at this thread, inshaAllah, it will help you.

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

Wakas

peace,

You can read my view in reply 577 here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8438.570

mmkhan

Adam was created in the exact same image and likeness of God. Thus, in effect, Adam was to be revered as God. I don't view Adam as having been merely one mortal person either. I view Adam as a being of flesh and bone, which is different than a body of flesh and blood like we have. If you know the difference between flesh and bone and flesh and blood, then the Adam and Eve narrative can make a lot more sense in an explicit way. It isn't just an allegory. It is a very precise narrative speaking of a literal and tangible reality.

Evidence needed from alQuraan please...

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

kylixguru

Evidence needed from alQuraan please...
The alQuraan recognizes Torah as inspired Words of God.
If you are not comfortable with that, please take that up with Allah and not me.

Also, there is likely plenty in the Qur'an that touches on this subject. I am still learning about the Qur'an. Perhaps you can help me find those evidences?

Is there anywhere in the Qur'an where it talks about what a resurrected body of flesh and bone actually is?

Jafar

Ok so you all probably already know this story. My questions regarding this story are as follows

Why would Allah order any of his servants, including the angels, to prostrate towards anything but Allah?
Is Iblis then avoiding shirk by not prostrating towards Adam?
It says it is because he was arrogant not because he was trying to avoid shirk. So does it have something to do with customs of the region at that time? Remember in the bible people prostrated themselves before other people all the time, kings, priests, prophets, holy men... is this shirk?
Would you prostrate yourself to another human being?

I am very interested to see what everyone thinks about this story and these questions.

Thank you in advance for you time and patience in go over this material.

Peace!

Your hypothesis start with a suggested notion from Judaist and Wahhabist that bowing / prostrating to other being is an act of disgrace and evil. Which is not true. The idea started from the story found in the book of Daniel (within a bundle called Tanakh) of 3 Israelites who refuse to prostrate and worship an idol setup by Babylonian King.

"Bowing / Prostrating to Adam" might be metaphorical in those Quranic verses.
Because we don't know what's the physical anatomy of a being called Iblis there and whether he can actually perform such act.

The meaning might be to 'pay a respect' towards a new being called "adam" in that verse.
Which he/she/it refuse to do because he/she/it think that he/she/it is far greater than "adam" (arrogant)

Such attitude (arrogance) proved to be the root cause of downfall of great nation / culture in the past.
From the mighty roman empire, great persian empire, caliphates, european colonialist power etc..
Thus the idea that arrogance lead to a downfall can be proven to be true by the observation of the history of humankind.

Thus the main message being told in that verse is
"Don't be arrogant as it can lead to your own downfall and disgrace, respect others then other will respect you"

I have no problems of paying respect to anyone..

Salam / Peace

mohf

SJD / Sujud / SaJDa / ... does not mean a physical prostration. This is a traditional understanding. This understanding creates many contradictions in the Quran (also see 124 and 12100 and many other verses) and must thus be discarded.

SJD in the context of the story of Adam and Iblis means to accept authority. Please see 230 where Allah says he will place a Khalifa, which clearly refers to Adam (234). God is asking Al Malaika, including Iblis to accept that Adam will have a higher authority and that they have to obey him.

This is my personal understanding.

Renegade

God is asking Al Malaika, including Iblis to accept that Adam will have a higher authority and that they have to obey him.

Where does the Quran say that Iblis was one of Al Malaika?

mohf

Where does the Quran say that Iblis was one of Al Malaika?

Well, I have to say that this is my personal understanding I got from 234

And when We said to the angels Make SaJDa to Adam they did SaJDa, except Iblis. He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.

I am not sure, I may be wrong, but doesn't this verse make clear that Iblis is included in Al Malaika? Otherwise, Allah wouldn't have said AlMalaika because it would make a contradiction.

Mazhar

Well, I have to say that this is my personal understanding I got from 234

And when We said to the angels Make SaJDa to Adam they did SaJDa, except Iblis. He refused and he was proud, and he was one of the unbelievers.

I am not sure, I may be wrong, but doesn't this verse make clear that Iblis is included in Al Malaika? Otherwise, Allah wouldn't have said AlMalaika because it would make a contradiction.

This understanding is because of not determining the inter relationship of words in the Ayah. Angels - plural definite noun are a large group. This word is prefixed with preposition "Li" which denotes that a proclamation was announced-made for them "You people--all the angels pay obeisance for Adam". Then it is told "fasajadu". Complying to the command, they all did pay obeisance. All the Angels complied. The exception relates to the act not to angels. Iblees, mentioned by name and not as one of them, did not comply to the command given to him. This is evident

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712

mirjamnur

Salam Mazhar

This understanding is because of not determining the inter relationship of words in the Ayah. Angels - plural definite noun are a large group. This word is prefixed with preposition "Li" which denotes that a proclamation was announced-made for them "You people--all the angels pay obeisance for Adam". Then it is told "fasajadu". Complying to the command, they all did pay obeisance. All the Angels complied. The exception relates to the act not to angels. Iblees, mentioned by name and not as one of them, did not comply to the command given to him. This is evident

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712

How should be the phrase if the exception relates to the angels?? it will be not the same? thank you for clarification- it's very interesting- because this Aya let me to accept, that Iblis was one from the malaikas , i.e the malaikas are jinns. (Sura kahf)
peace

Bigmo