Is Rukooh and Sajood part of Salaat ?
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You can read all occurrences here
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htmSee roots Siin-Jiim-Dal & Ra-Kaf-Ayn
If you are making a link between salat and words that follow due to proximity, then also consider others if examining objectively, e.g. zakat.
Salaam Wakas
That is really a useful link. That shows meanings. I need if the Rukoo3/sajood are really part of the physical salaat as proved through the Quran. If you can quote some verses which can help ,I will appreciate.
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Peace Q_student,
In my understanding there is no bowing position in the qur'aan. "Ruku" as used in the qur'aan cannot be bowing. One can fall down kneeling but how can one fall down bowing?
3824 He said ?He has wronged you by asking to combine your lamb with his lambs. And many who mix their properties take advantage of one another, except those who believe and do good works, and these are very few.? And David guessed that We had tested him, so he sought forgiveness from his Lord, and fell down being humble/kharra raaki'an, and repented.
How can one contribute to betterment/purification while bowing?
555 For your supporter is God and His messenger and those who believe; they uphold the communion, and contribute towards betterment while being humble.
The primary meaning of "ruku" as used in the qur'aan is humility. There is only weak evidence of a physical ruku in the qur'aan. Even if there is a physical ruku it can only be the kneeling position (because one can fall down kneeling, but one cannot fall down bowing) but the physical kneeling is useless if there is no associated humility, so the mental component of humility is more important.
The primary meaning of "sujud" as used in the qur'aan is obedience. There is evidence of a physical sujud as part of salaat (4102) but again a physical sujud is useless without associated mental obedience so the mental component is more important. Moreover, the physical sujud is TO THE CHIN according to the qur'aan
17107 Say ?Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins in obedience.?
17108 And they say ?Praise be to our Lord. Truly, the promise of our Lord was fulfilled.?
17109 And they fall to their chins crying, and it increases them in humility.Please note that it says LI AL-ADHQAANI/TO THE CHINS and not 3ALA AL-ADHQAANI/UPON THE CHINS so in my understanding the chins do not have to be touching the ground. Actually, according to 17107 you are supposed to perform sujud everytime you hear a sign, and it will be impossible to perform a sujud with chins touching the ground everytime you hear a sign. What if you are crossing a busy road and you hear a sign being recited?
Kharra means to fall from a higher position to a lower position, so as long as the starting position of the chin is higher than the ending position, it can be considered falling to the chins in sujud. Bending one's neck until the chin touches the chest would thus be sujud too as long as the mental component of obedience is also present.
I think that as long as one is humble and obedient while performing salaat, the exact physical posture is not important as long as it is within the qur'aanic guidelines, otherwise The God would have described the exact physical posture in great anatomical detail if it was really important.
I personally stand during salaat and recite/read the qur'aan in a moderate tone while trying to understand it, and glorify and praise The God, and then fall to a kneeling position humbly and glorify and praise The God, and then either bend the neck until the chin touches the chest or sometimes I will bend forward until my chin is close to the ground or touching it while glorifying and praising The God. When I am not performing salaat and I hear The God's signs being recited, I will try to understand what is being said and then bend my neck until the chin touches the chest (fall to the chin in obedience) and then try to obey/sajada The God in my life.
You are advised to arrive at your own understanding after your own research and verification from the qur'aan and perform your salaat according to your own understanding because everyone will be responsible and accountable for their own deeds.
Hope that helps.
Peace
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Salaam brother;
First of all I thank you how do you pray.It will be a guide line.
One question. You saidI personally stand during salaat and recite/read the qur'aan in a moderate tone while trying to understand it, and glorify and praise The God, and then fall to a kneeling position humbly and glorify and praise The God, and then either bend the neck until the chin touches the chest or sometimes I will bend forward until my chin is close to the ground or touching it while glorifying and praising The God
When Rukoo3 and Sajood is not the part of the Quran ,then why do you do them in the salaat ?
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Peace,
I stand and then do the sujud. The kneeling and then lowering the chin to the ground is part of the sujud. I find it impossible to lower the chin to the ground without kneeling first. There is evidence for both standing and physical sujud as part of salaat. If there is no physical sujud, then how will the one leading the salaat know "when they have prostrated" according to 4102?
The reason kneeling is part of the sujud is because of the phrase used in the qur'aan "rukka'an sujjadan" without a "wa" in between (4829), so actually "ruku" is part of "sujud" and vice versa, i.e. they are inseparable. That is why I said there is some evidence of "ruku" in salaat also.
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Peace,
I stand and then do the sujud. The kneeling and then lowering the chin to the ground is part of the sujud. I find it impossible to lower the chin to the ground without kneeling first. There is evidence for both standing and physical sujud as part of salaat. If there is no physical sujud, then how will the one leading the salaat know "when they have prostrated" according to 4102?
The reason kneeling is part of the sujud is because of the phrase used in the qur'aan "rukka'an sujjadan" without a "wa" in between, so actually "ruku" is part of "sujud" and vice versa, i.e. they are inseparable. That is why I said there is some evidence of "ruku" in salaat also.
Salaam brother
The word "sajadoo" in this verse means mental submission not the physical one. Is this not so? Is there any evidence that it is physical one.Would you please give reference for use of "Rukka3Sujjadan" collectively has come with reference to "Salaat"?
Thank -
Peace,
What is the meaning of "rukka'an sujjadan" in 4829? It is not describing a separate ruku and a separate sujood. They are part of each other. The fact that they are SEEN "rukka'an sujjadan" in 4829 shows it is physical and is one entity, not two separate ones. Also ruku and purification both are mentioned in association with salaat in 243. How can you be humble with those who are humble according to 243? Can you see in people's hearts?
In 4102, how will the leader know "when they have prostrated", if it is not physical? Does he have the power of telepathy or looking into people's hearts?
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Peace,
What is the meaning of "rukka'an sujjadan" in 4829? It is not describing a separate ruku and a separate sujood. They are part of each other. The fact that they are SEEN "rukka'an sujjadan" in 4829 shows it is physical and is one entity, not two separate ones. Also ruku and purification both are mentioned in association with salaat in 243. How can you be humble with those who are humble according to 243? Can you see in people's hearts?
In 4102, how will the leader know "when they have prostrated", if it is not physical? Does he have the power of telepathy or looking into people's hearts?
Salaam Truthseeker
You quoted verse is
May I ask how do correlate this "Rukka3sujjadan" to salaat in this verse.Even the word of "salaat " has not been mentioned in this verse.
Your second reference
has been explicitly separated from by another phrase .So it clearly shows that Rukoo3 is not a part of Salaat.
In contrast the following verse shows that "Sajadah can be before Rukoo3"
This sajdah and rukoo3 is a part of "Qunoot" and sajadah is before Rukoo3
What do you think ? -
Peace,
How can you be humble with those who are humble according to 243? Can you see in people's hearts?
In 4102, how will the leader know "when they have prostrated", if it is not physical? Does he have the power of telepathy or looking into people's hearts?
2 43
And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down.Bow down shall mean being humble by all possible means. Being humble before people with who our life is involved is absolutely necessary for the dignity. Being humble with mercy and grace in the hearts between wife and husband; between relatives and friends; between boss and servants; between employers and employees and so on is a good gesture which attitude of humility Allah loves in any person be he a christian, a jew, a hindu or a muslim. This is prayer in life; prayer in action! What Allah does not like is the people who only act before Allah by bending their bodies and hanging their heads down, murmur something 3 times; and then go away turning their backs to the Ka'aba and Allah thinking that they had gotten scot-free. By doing the acting of bowing down we are genuinely ignorant of prayer. Get down in action, haply we might not be hypocrites anymore. Among the mankind muslims do the physical bowing and acting before Allah; while the other religious people are showing humility as Allah had ordained upon the mankind, thus gearing themselves into action, very prayerfully! This is the reason why Allah had placed all other religious people high above the muslims.
68 35
Shall We then treat the People of Faith like the People of Sin?Behold! Among the mankind Allah has disgraced in the face of the world as terrorists only those who claim themselves to be Muslims, before even Allah grants them the status of dignity. When people see beard and cap immediately there is the red alert! What a tragedy! It seems the actors of ritual prayers are accursed! It is time we got down in action as other religious people do! Allah has created only a single nation after all. Wherever you find good practice follow it at least in those actions, abiding. May Allah help and guide us into unifying prayer; not in uniform prayer.
May Allah Forgive us and make us join the religious, dutifully abiding people among the mankind and let us pray He Make Us Muslims.
Peace.
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if ruku and sujood are different and not physical what are their meanings?
if sujood is submitted what is ruku ?Truthseeker11
Ruku" as used in the qur'aan cannot be bowing. One can fall down kneeling but how can one fall down bowing?
you can drop your arms down? not exactly fall..I think salat is the most contested topic amongst muslims, everyone will have their own definition.
salam
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Salaam Q_student
You quoted verse is
May I ask how do correlate this "Rukka3sujjadan" to salaat in this verse.Even the word of "salaat " has not been mentioned in this verse.
There seems to be some misunderstanding about what I was trying to say. Perhaps I have not been clear. I did not quote 4829 as evidence of ruku and sujood as part of salaat. I quoted it to prove that "rukka'an sujjadan" is something physical because they were SEEN doing it. It also proves that "ruku" can be part of "sujood" and vice versa. My understanding of this is kneeling and lowering the chin to the ground as one continuous action.
The other evidence that ruku can be physical in addition to mental is 3824 (not the evidence of it being part of salaat but evidence of it being physical). How can one fall down in ruku? Only by kneeling from standing position.
Another evidence of sujood being physical in addition to mental is 4102. How will the leader know "when they have performed sujood" if it is not a physical thing? If it is mental only in that sign then the leader has the power of telepathy or looking into people's hearts.
The evidence that "sujood" is part of salat is 4102.
Your second reference
has been explicitly separated from by another phrase .So it clearly shows that Rukoo3 is not a part of Salaat.
3 terms separated by a "wa" does not necessarily mean they are 3 completely different terms but the last two terms can be part of the first term. You yourself are saying that sujud and ruku are part of "qunoot" according to 343, even though they are separated by a "wa". Using the same logic, zakat and ruku are both part of salat according to 243. Salat when performed properly is actually bringing forth purification (atoo zakat) and ruku is also a part of salat. My question is that if the ruku in 243 is mental, then how can one "be humble with those who are being humble"? The only way one can do this is if one has the power of looking in others hearts.
In contrast the following verse shows that "Sajadah can be before Rukoo3"
This sajdah and rukoo3 is a part of "Qunoot" and sajadah is before Rukoo3
What do you think ?Just because sujud is mentioned before ruku does not mean that one is before the other. They are both part of one continuous action of "kneeling and then lowering the chin to the ground".
According to your reasoning "sujud" and "ruku" are part of "qunoot" even though they are separated by a "wa". Using the same reasoning, why can't "zakat" and "ruku" be part of "salaat" in 243?
Salaamun alaik
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Salaam Sarah,
if ruku and sujood are different and not physical what are their meanings?
if sujood is submitted what is ruku ?The primary meaning of "ruku" is humility and "sujud" is obedience. Majority of the times these terms are used in the qur'aan they refer to this mental meaning only. In some signs however they also mean a physical ruku and a physical sujud in addition to the mental, but even in those signs the mental component is of course more important. A physical ruku (kneeling) without associated mental humility is useless and is not a ruku. Similarly a physical sujud (kneeling and lowering the chin to the ground) without associated mental obedience/submission is useless and is not a sujud.
Truthseeker11 you can drop your arms down? not exactly fall..
Sure, but even then it is still "kharra"/falling down.
Salaamun alaik
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Salaam Sarah,
The primary meaning of "ruku" is humility and "sujud" is obedience. Majority of the times these terms are used in the qur'aan they refer to this mental meaning only. In some signs however they also mean a physical ruku and a physical sujud in addition to the mental, but even in those signs the mental component is of course more important. A physical ruku (kneeling) without associated mental humility is useless and is not a ruku. Similarly a physical sujud (kneeling and lowering the chin to the ground) without associated mental obedience/submission is useless and is not a sujud.
Sure, but even then it is still "kharra"/falling down.
Salaamun alaik
Brother salaam
You saidThe primary meaning of "ruku" is humility and "sujud" is obedience.
Evidence please
Thanks -
if ruku/sujood is also spiritual and means obedience/submitting/humility then is the definition not much different from ibahadah?
Truthseker11 you mentioned the verse
(3824
What does wakharra mean? What do the last 3 words mean.. how do you define it. (or anyone else)
In the verse 4102 it appears that sajda has links to prayer I think it shows it as part of physical prayer too.
salam )
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Brother salaam
You said
The primary meaning of "ruku" is humility and "sujud" is obedience.
Evidence please
ThanksI think the primary meaning of "ruku3" is submission
Lisanul 3arab
( ب
. .Sajad is mostly linked to humiliation
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. .
What I found interesting is that the orgn most linked to sujuud are the eyes
al-muheet
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Al-3ainThere's also the meaning of submitting.
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I think the primary meaning of "ruku3" is submission
Lisanul 3arab
( ب
. .Sajad is mostly linked to humiliation
. .
. .
What I found interesting is that the orgn most linked to sujuud are the eyes
al-muheet
.
Al-3ainThere's also the meaning of submitting.
Salaam Samia
First of all I really appreciate for your effort and such a nice post.I do agree with you partially.
For the word "Raka3a" here is my search-
( 2 / 59)
(ع . 3. -
( 21 / 122)
Exactly same words are given by Lane's lexicon.
So Ruku3 has Primary meaning as "To bend" so all of rest of meanings are secondary.For Sajada
- ( 3 / 103)
(د . .
To lower oneself
To submit
Rest of meanings are secondary.
BTW Sajada is one of the contranyms ( ) and it also means "to stand erect".
Regards
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Salaam Samia
First of all I really appreciate for your effort and such a nice post.I do agree with you partially.
Thanks, student of qur'aan!
I am glad you, even partially, agree with me. May I now where we differ?
In another thought, I find that the quraan may have a word for submission, and it is not "islam".