Defenition of marriage suggests sex before marriage permitted?!
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But the verse says if they want 'tahasun' or being a mohasinat.
"Tahsunna", is from the same root H7N, and hence conveys similar meanings as , protect, and in terms of sexuallity, protection means , that they want to be chaste.
The order is , "one should not force any young female under our control to commit wrong.
What wrong can one force a young female into in regards to sexuality if she wants to be chaste? "Fornication".
And when you force a young female into doing fornication to gain the worldly gains,
It becomes prostitution.And if from within she does not want to be chaste, well No problems, both will be dealt with .
The order is specifically for those who desire to stay chaste, so God is telling them , " I know from within you want to protect yourself from these fahishas (to be chaste) but if you are forced into it against your will, Don't worry, I know your situation, so I am going to be most merciful, forgiving.
siki
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What about non-married women who want to join the believers? So what is your actual definition of 'mohasanat'?
Well they just come and join, No issue regarding giving Nafaq back or testing their faith.
Faith testing would be important when a marriage is being broken up unilaterally, children could suffer, or she could be leaving him due to some other reason , and hence could be trying to avail this clause.
Have you gone through my posts? I think i have repeated my difinition many a times.
siki
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"Tahsunna", is from the same root H7N, and hence conveys similar meanings as , protect, and in terms of sexuallity, protection means , that they want to be chaste.
The order is , "one should not force any young female under our control to commit wrong.
What wrong can one force a young female into in regards to sexuality if she wants to be chaste? "Fornication".
And when you force a young female into doing fornication to gain the worldly gains,
It becomes prostitution.And if from within she does not want to be chaste, well No problems, both will be dealt with .
The order is specifically for those who desire to stay chaste, so God is telling them , " I know from within you want to protect yourself from these fahishas (to be chaste) but if you are forced into it against your will, Don't worry, I know your situation, so I am going to be most merciful, forgiving.
siki
The verse is saying IF they want 'chastity'. Otherwise, is it ok to push girls into prostitution?
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The verse is saying IF they want 'chastity'. Otherwise, is it ok to push girls into prostitution?
please re-read last paragraph
And if from within she does not want to be chaste, well No problems, both will be dealt with .
The order is specifically for those who desire to stay chaste, so God is telling them , " I know from within you want to protect yourself from these fahishas (to be chaste) but if you are forced into it against your will, Don't worry, I know your situation, so I am going to be most merciful, forgiving.
siki
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Peace siki,
God's book is over you, conveys, Go by my book , look in here (book) for instructions, abide by the appropriate law relevant to the issue etc.
So govern your sexual relationships according to the instruction that He is issuing, and it says , seek them with your money , with an aim that you want to continue being chaste , meaning you are doing this to control your sexual desires, Not making it a regularised fornication or prostitution. And what ever you decide to give her as a wage , you must give her before you touch her.
"Mohsinnate" has to have one meaning. We can not translate it at as chaste, and at another as married. It is absolutely wrong to translate "Mohsinnate" as married. let me show you how.
4-25, if you cant marry a believing married women , marry a married believing young female among mma.
5-5 -- today all married believing women ,and married women of the people of the book are halal.
24-4 those who accuse married women and then fail bring in 4 witnesses flog them--- does that mean that one can accuse an unmarried chaste woman and get away with it?
24-23 Those who accuse believing married women who are careless === again same as above.
I know what you are trying to ask? but at this time I have to first fight this case out , later we will discuss ,as to why God has not used Nikah at certain places.
siki
Nor can they be only single women; flip it around use your same words?
24-4 those who accuse single women and then fail bring in 4 witnesses flog them--- does that mean that one can accuse an unsingle chaste woman and get away with it?
24-23 Those who accuse believing single women who are careless === again same as above.
In addition, if applicable to only single women
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No prohibition stated in Qur?an against sex with married believing women (not it 243)
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No punishment for adultery (the married) stated in Qur?an which is how traditionalists view 244 that it only applies to singles and stoning for the married (according to hadith).
As stated prior, is marital status neutral, applicable to married or single adult women similar to ?lady? in English and needs to be examined in context.
To repeat example; exact same word different meaning derived from context
411 - he directs you (p) - God - in - you (p) children
- to the male - alike - luck/fortune - the two females
5417 ? and We have - eased ? the Qur?an - to the remembrance - so is there - from ? those who remember/are mindful
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I still believe MMA is the Katb al Kitab. That is where you make on oath of marriage and everything but the ceremony did not take place. Its an oath(vows) and its considered a legal marraige although usually a house is need for the marraige to be made official.
Peace
I actually watched a chat show today on arabic TV. They were talking about marriage. The guest was saying something about how some people before they properly get married, they sign the papers and they call it a "possession", as if they have signed the papers to own the woman. Like an IOU. He linked it to MMA, I can't remember what he said exactly but basically that it is nicer term as the man doesn't own the woman. I guess he was implying that the signing stage is the MMA.
By house, you mean this is before they move in together to start married life? So they can basically live with the groom's mother, as they do in many countries, or spend the first night at a hotel, and not necessarily own a house. Am I correct?God bless
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Peace
I actually watched a chat show today on arabic TV. They were talking about marriage. The guest was saying something about how some people before they properly get married, they sign the papers and they call it a "possession", as if they have signed the papers to own the woman. Like an IOU. He linked it to MMA, I can't remember what he said exactly but basically that it is nicer term as the man doesn't own the woman. I guess he was implying that the signing stage is the MMA.
By house, you mean this is before they move in together to start married life? So they can basically live with the groom's mother, as they do in many countries, or spend the first night at a hotel, and not necessarily own a house. Am I correct?God bless
Peace
I've just realised something...
425 If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith.
So if you don't have the means to marry a free believing woman, then marry the one who you have already signed an oath with?
Why would the man want to marry a woman if he already has an oath with another woman?Now I am backed to confused ???
God bless
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Peace
I've just realised something...
425 If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith.
So if you don't have the means to marry a free believing woman, then marry the one who you have already signed an oath with?
Why would the man want to marry a woman if he already has an oath with another woman?Now I am backed to confused ???
God bless
Salaam
To own some human being is equivalent to making him/her slave. All human beings are equal. No one can own anyone.If it occurs it is unislamic. Husband and wife they sign a contract on equal basis. No one owns anyone.Wife is not a "commodity " which you own.
Regards -
Salaam
To own some human being is equivalent to making him/her slave. All human beings are equal. No one can own anyone. If it occurs it is unislamic. Husband and wife they sign a contract on equal basis. No one owns anyone.Wife is not a "commodity " which you own.
RegardsThanks student! Though obvious, but I am surprised that soem still dwell in this slae, owned, chaste fiasco...and ajr becomes a single payment for sex rendered
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Peace siki,
Nor can they be only single women; flip it around use your same words?
24-4 those who accuse single women and then fail bring in 4 witnesses flog them--- does that mean that one can accuse an unsingle chaste woman and get away with it?
24-23 Those who accuse believing single women who are careless === again same as above.
In addition, if applicable to only single women
-
No prohibition stated in Qur?an against sex with married believing women (not it 243)
-
No punishment for adultery (the married) stated in Qur?an which is how traditionalists view 244 that it only applies to singles and stoning for the married (according to hadith).
As stated prior, is marital status neutral, applicable to married or single adult women similar to ?lady? in English and needs to be examined in context.
To repeat example; exact same word different meaning derived from context
411 - he directs you (p) - God - in - you (p) children
- to the male - alike - luck/fortune - the two females
5417 ? and We have - eased ? the Qur?an - to the remembrance - so is there - from ? those who remember/are mindful
Did I ever say that they are single women? It means Hallal chaste woman, if she is married, she is not available.
Your understanding , and mine is almost the same.
siki
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Peace
I've just realised something...
425 If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith.
So if you don't have the means to marry a free believing woman, then marry the one who you have already signed an oath with?
Why would the man want to marry a woman if he already has an oath with another woman?Now I am backed to confused ???
God bless
precisely,
If you had a right hand possession , that meant that you were rich and well placed , so to start with you should not have had a problem in getting a Mohsinna for marriage.
If you had a right hand possession, you had an out let, so the second part of aya , which says , if you fear falling in sin, only then you should marry a MMA, but if you could abstain that was better" does not full fill the criteria.
You are not marrying , your right hand possession, You are marrying some one's right hand possession, with his permission.
And he (ahel) is being instructed in 24-33 to free her, if she asks a deed in this regard.
siki
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Salaam
To own some human being is equivalent to making him/her slave. All human beings are equal. No one can own anyone.If it occurs it is unislamic. Husband and wife they sign a contract on equal basis. No one owns anyone.Wife is not a "commodity " which you own.
RegardsMa Malakat emnakum are history, exactly like the way we don"t find slaves anymore, but back then, they existed, so why are you surprised? Who are these black people in America ? they were all slaves a century back, Mankind has come a long way brother.
I think I would have been more surprised if the book did not contain any instruction regarding them.
siki
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OK, this is getting weird. Now God is addressing the rejectors. No sane believer will push his girls into prostitution. It is understandable that he will forgive the girls being pushed, but He didn't get mad on the pushers.
Which world are you living?
During course of your life , you will get to know many who do that. As for getting mad at pushers, He did forbade them. And when he clearly forbids something, and we do not take heed, better be ready for great repercussions.siki
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Ma Malakat emnakum are history, exactly like the way we don"t find slaves anymore, but back then, they existed, so why are you surprised? Who are these black people in America ? they were all slaves a century back, Mankind has come a long way brother.
I think I would have been more surprised if the book did not contain any instruction regarding them.
siki
Salaam Brother
Can you produce Quranic evidence for their existence ?
Regards -
Salaam
To own some human being is equivalent to making him/her slave. All human beings are equal. No one can own anyone.If it occurs it is unislamic. Husband and wife they sign a contract on equal basis. No one owns anyone.Wife is not a "commodity " which you own.
RegardsPeace
I wasn't implying that a man can own a woman. The man was just saying that some people call it a 'possession' when they sign the contract, which he said is wrong, and defintely unislamic! Like I said, I can't remember how he linked it to mma but it was something to do with the signing stage of marriage and that it had nothing to do with 'possessing' the woman.
precisely,
If you had a right hand possession , that meant that you were rich and well placed , so to start with you should not have had a problem in getting a Mohsinna for marriage.
If you had a right hand possession, you had an out let, so the second part of aya , which says , if you fear falling in sin, only then you should marry a MMA, but if you could abstain that was better" does not full fill the criteria.
You are not marrying , your right hand possession, You are marrying some one's right hand possession, with his permission.
And he (ahel) is being instructed in 24-33 to free her, if she asks a deed in this regard.
siki
Hmmm. Makes sense. I'll think about that.
Can you give me the verse numbers please so I can check it in Arabic.God bless
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Salaam
Quranic proof for their existence when Quran was revealed.
RegardsSo , I think I have been talking Greek since last few days.
Have I even once referred to any Hadith or man made history book? Brother! what I have been talking is Quran , pure Quran, nothing but Quran.