Defenition of marriage suggests sex before marriage permitted?!
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I think the doctor has a very negative attitude towards women and children. People, who don't think men have a responsibility towards their children, are scum.
And it's from the same guy who believes in Bukhari's book, saying Muhammad allowed temporary prostitution. rotfl rotfl
IMO right hand possession is referring to slaves, or people you are committed to, not like the example above where men get to screw women just because they're horny.
If you "possess" a woman she's pretty much your house slave. Only that, she wants to be. I mean when you buy someone from the slave market they're not forced to go with you right? They only go with you if they want to. If a woman slave decides to go with a man buyer, she should pretty much know she and him are gonna being doing it.
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And it's from the same guy who believes in Bukhari's book, saying Muhammad allowed temporary prostitution. rotfl rotfl
IMO right hand possession is referring to slaves, or people you are committed to, not like the example above where men get to screw women just because they're horny.
If you "possess" a woman she's pretty much your house slave. Only that, she wants to be. I mean when you buy someone from the slave market they're not forced to go with you right? They only go with you if they want to. If a woman slave decides to go with a man buyer, she should pretty much know she and him are gonna being doing it.
I think that Shahrour is wrong on this count and I do not know from when is that interview or whether he has upheld before or after the most chocking implications of this theory about MMA, but I do not think he is propounding enslavement of women, because as Samia and others have pointed out before, following the Qur'an, and Shahrour acknowledges this, women are as much capable of having MMA as males. Of course when the whole picture is laid down, the result is awfully schewed against women, because when something is thought out witht he convenience of males in mind, it would be surprising, even if applied to women, that the convenience of women would be equally served.
I think we must keep working on the content of the term MMA, and although I have not yet checked everything through, an I haven't therefore closed the matter for myself, Samia's idea of it being a kind of marriage may merit some consideration.
Salaam
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Peace nimnimak_11,
We will use two verses from the Quran to answer your inquary. We will have to assume that there in no conrtadiction in the Qurran and therefore the example cited below is consistence with the Quranic law.
2827-He said, "I wish to offer one of my two daughters for you to marry, in return for working for me for eight pilgrimages; if you make them ten, it will be voluntary on your part. I do not wish to make this matter too difficult for you. You will find me, GOD willing, righteous."
2828 - He said, "It is an agreement between me and you. Whichever period I fulfill, you will not be averse to either one. GOD is the guarantor of what we said."
A believer will do the following prior to having sex with spouse
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Marriage proposal (in this case father is proposing onbehalf of daughter)
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A dowry arrangement/agreement
Verbal agreement between two parties where the God is the guarantor or
Written agreement withness by two men (my deduction from avove fact s+Quran)
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Acceptance of the agreement/proposal
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Sex after fulfilling the above three requirements. That's all. This is marriage from the Quran
Personally, I think the agreement where the God is the granter is more stringent than the other option. Because in this case the punishment will be very sever if the promise is violated compared to the worldly agreement where the matter is settled in this world.
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Peace
If you "possess" a woman she's pretty much your house slave. Only that, she wants to be. I mean when you buy someone from the slave market they're not forced to go with you right? They only go with you if they want to. If a woman slave decides to go with a man buyer, she should pretty much know she and him are gonna being doing it.
o
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^What?
And to everyone, I think the main discussion is about the meaning of "right hands possess", not what and what doesn't constitute a marriage. Pretty sure the definition of marriage is clear. Contract and witnesses, right? This sounds very clear. "Right hands possess" however, isn't as clear but from what I can see it's who you OWN, and what else can you own but slaves?
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^What?
And to everyone, I think the main discussion is about the meaning of "right hands possess", not what and what doesn't constitute a marriage. Pretty sure the definition of marriage is clear. Contract and witnesses, right? This sounds very clear. "Right hands possess" however, isn't as clear but from what I can see it's who you OWN, and what else can you own but slaves?
So you're trying to say you can have sex with your slaves because you own them?
Even if your idea of MMA was correct, I thought you cannot have sex outside marriage
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Peace Meteora,
?And to everyone, I think the main discussion is about the meaning of "right hands possess", not what and what doesn't constitute a marriage?
If you took time to read the first three (3) posts of this thread then you would have known the objective of this post. May I ask why you didn?t try to find the answer yourself? More importantly if you do not know the objective then how would you add value to the thread. Anyway, here are some relevant quotes from the first three posts
?What i'm questioning is the concept of marriage.
I'm suggesting that the Quranic concept and description of marriage is pretty much the same as a couple in today's society.??I've been thinking about sex before marriage for a while in terms of whether it is morally acceptable in my mind/heart.
I concluded yes.?I hope now it is clear to you that the thread is about Quranic definition of marriage and if that definition supports the living arrangement of today's couple. I recommend you read the whole thread to determine the best answer. If you have a better answer, please provide it to us. Thanks.
Please remember that Quran is easy to understand. Therefore, finding an answer to said straightforward question should be quick, short and sweet for the believer.
MMA should not be discussed on this thread because ?couple in today's society? does not = MMA. Our target should be efficient answer to the question at hand.
Peace siki,
Please refer to your post on May 26, 2009, where you said ? This is going to be my 1000th post, yay and I am likely to be earning the 4th and final star. I thank HIM for choosing me to help his creation by improving understanding of his last and final scripture?
You sound like the fourth star is coming from the God or it is authorized by the God.
In reality these stars are given by web site without any Quranic criteria. This is an unquranic behavior and you are subscribing to it. Here is why
- A hypocrite gets four star by posting 1000 posts
- A person posts 1000 non-quality posts and get four stars
- A Muslim posts 1000 posts and gets four stars
- A believer posts 1000 posts and gets four stars
- A messenger of the God posts 10 good posts but gets no star
I hope you get my point of how worthless these stars are. People of understanding will reject it out-rite. On the other hand you rejoice in getting them to the point you have kept a daily account of it. Therefore, I must question your motive. Are you posting for the sake of achieving stars or for the good of you and others? You may have good intention but your behavior shows otherwise. Maybe the website will give certificate to Heaven when one reaches 10,000 posts or more.
You also said ?......and never let my ego or personal likes/dislikes comes in the way..........?. But I found your post that said ?For all who are posting to resolve this issue? quite egoistic in nature for the following reasons
You were giving direction as if you are the originator of this thread except that you were not
You disrespected the thread owner by doing so, in my opinion
You portrayed yourself as the one in control
If it was your thread then there is no problemI may agree with some of the things you said except that it wasn't your place to say it. I am providing these comments as constructive criticism. I hope you don't take it in a negative sense. We have to be mindful of others at all time.
Peace huruf,
?Congratulations also to siki for his 1000th post, great achievement in trying to polish the unpolished, and also for his n-th "you women who suck to the feminist western brainwash" post which I find so funny, unlike the rest which are more serious.?
Instead of correcting an unquranic behavior you are applauding it. I hope this was unintentional and an honest mistake. We should always critique our own write-up before publishing it.
Peace truthseeker11,
?...the couple can expose their private parts...? prior to Quranic marriage is the most ridiculous thing I have heard. Why limit your rationale to ?don't like each other's private parts? only. How about fertility? How do you satisfy this important criterion without having sex prior to marriage?
Also, oath is something that one does not wish to go back on whereas marriage proposal could be violated prior to the first sexual relation.
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Peace,
MMA are the slave girls. She is not a slave per se but she is something like 'adopted', the burden is actually on you! If you give them the gift and get their families permission, they are still called MMA. Actually this solves alot of problems in societies!
Peace,
Rami
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Peace,
MMA are the slave girls. She is not a slave per se but she is something like 'adopted', the burden is actually on you! If you give them the gift and get their families permission, they are still called MMA. Actually this solves alot of problems in societies!
Peace,
Rami
Can this also be valid
MMA are slave boys. He is not a slave per se but he is something like "adopted", the burden is actuALLY ON YOU! If you accept a gift from them and got their families permission, they are still called MMA. Actually this also solves a lot of the problems of problems an societies! -
Can this also be valid
MMA are slave boys. He is not a slave per se but he is something like "adopted", the burden is actuALLY ON YOU! If you accept a gift from them and got their families permission, they are still called MMA. Actually this also solves a lot of the problems of problems an societies!Yeah but dont take a gift from more than one man at a time.
&
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How many girls are you going to give gifts to? Wil these girls be in addition to a wife? Then I am afraid, same here ;D
Just tell me where to find these "boys" and "girls" eatI can have multiple wives, you can have one husband. If you had more than one husband, to whom ur children will belong??
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I can have multiple wives, you can have one husband. If you had more than one husband, to whom ur children will belong??
What if I am sterile? Too old to have more children, but young enough to have many husbands? Can have children and will choose my husbands from different races? Know the father of my child by intuition? Distribute them as I like and the husbands wont know? Arrange it in any other way...?
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What if I am sterile? Too old to have more children, but young enough to have many husbands? Can have children and will choose my husbands from different races? Know the father of my child by intuition? Distribute them as I like and the husbands wont know? Arrange it in any other way...?
Thats whoredom. Sorry. Forbidden.
Thus saith the Lord! angel
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Ohh come on Samia, you are under-estimating my Arabic.
fe3l = tahsseen
fa3el = mohassen - male
maf3ool behe = mohassana - femalehmm
First tahseen is not the pattern of fe3l. fe3l hesn; hasuna fa3ula.
Why is the feminine "maf3uul behi/ agent" and the male is "fa3el/ actor"? What's your proof? You understand it in a way, then write whatever diacritical signs to support your understanding. The qur'aan was not revealed with these diacritical signs; so unless you have a logical reason, you cannot use them as evidence.
And I can tell you that yours are wrong diacritical signs, and God knew some will manipulate them, this is why he put the second part , or are you going to say they are different too, and that one is "maf3uul behi" and the other is "fa3el"?!Secondly, why can't a male be "muhsan"?