Zakat and Sadaqat
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The problem with this comparison is that in 1288 it is really a charity Yusuf was not obliged in trade to give them more than their capital, but they ere asking for charity as well because "hard time has hit us and our family"; in short they were poor.
In last visit their younger brother was retained. This is what has hit them and their family. And they have come to Egypt for this purpose alone in compliance to their father's direction
And Particle Fa shows the reaction/effect, therefore. They have not come for commercial transanction. That is merely as excuse for access. That is why they say little money have we brought and asked equivalent weight for the money and in subtle manner they have asked him to return their brother. And from the answer of the person whom they were considering Aziz/Ruler/Minister/Governor is abundantly clear that they had asked for their brother not "charity of grains".
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Salaam Mazhar
They first told their story that "Misfortune hath touched us and our folk, and we bring but poor merchandise", giving the excuse of bringing bad merchandise for what? Loss of their brother? Is this a logical link?
Then "so (as a result), fill for us the measure and be charitable unto us" because they lost their brother or because their marchendise was not up to the standard?
Actually they wanted him to have mercy on them and are not in a position to blantly ask him for anything other than charity. After he sympathizes with them, only then can they ask for anything.We all know they neither came for charity nor did they come for trade.
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Peace Samia
Thanks for your quick reply to my PM.
Am I correct in saying then, that in your opinion, "farida" in 960 would be applied to "sadaqaat"?
Imraan
You are welcome
In the way I understand the verse, yes, "farida" refers to the due right of these people in sadaqaat.
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peace Samia,
In the way I understand the verse, yes, "farida" refers to the due right of these people in sadaqaat.
So, whilst the people mentioned have a due right in sadaqaat, you cannot conclude based on grammar/logic/anything that 960 is making giving of sadaqat obligatory?
That is what we are trying to clarify.
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Salaam Mazhar
They first told their story that "Misfortune hath touched us and our folk, and we bring but poor merchandise", giving the excuse of bringing bad merchandise for what? Loss of their brother? Is this a logical link?
Then "so (as a result), fill for us the measure and be charitable unto us" because they lost their brother or because their marchendise was not up to the standard?
Actually they wanted him to have mercy on them and are not in a position to blantly ask him for anything other than charity. After he sympathizes with them, only then can they ask for anything.We all know they neither came for charity nor did they come for trade.
Assalamo Alaikum Sister,
There is no such thing in the whole episode which could reflect poverty. The only thing is the shortage/less supply of food grains at that point of time that is why system of rationing has been introduced, one man one camel load, no more sale for men of family not present on the scene/depot of sale. This time 9 men have come but they are making it clear that they have brought little capital therefore asked to give the one camel load in return; indicating to him their real purpose, and some say these words do not mean "you give more grains to us free of price as charity", rather they are asking him to remit their brother. And the response of Yousaf alahissalam confirms this that today you are asking for him but what you did with Yusuf and his brother when you were overpowered by emotions?
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Imran,
you have said "Sadaqaat has at its root the meaning of truth. A careful study of the concept clearly shows that it is the fulfilment of a right that is due".
This connection is found in 6141
6141 He is the One Who initiated gardens; both trellised and untrellised; palm trees, and plants, all with different tastes; and olives and pomegranates, similar and not similar. Eat from its fruit when it blossoms and give its haqq on the day of harvest; and do not waste. He does not like the wasteful.
As far as I know 'haqq' means 'truth', 'right', 'that which is due', etc.
Also what we learn from this verse is that we are indeed to give to charity/share whenever we recieve income/harvest/etc. -
peace Samia,
So, whilst the people mentioned have a due right in sadaqaat, you cannot conclude based on grammar/logic/anything that 960 is making giving of sadaqat obligatory?
That is what we are trying to clarify.
No, grammar has nothing to do with the meaning of the verse.
Obligation can only be implied, that those people have due right in the sadaqaa. If they have right, they have to get it. -
And the response of Yousaf alahissalam confirms this that today you are asking for him but what you did with Yusuf and his brother when you were overpowered by emotions?
The response of Yusuf was He saido you know what you did unto Joseph and his brother in your ignorance?
He wanted to show them he recognized them. There is no "Today you are asking for him".
Their response was They said Is it indeed you who are Yusuf? He said I am Yusuf. and this is my brother.They did not know him before he hinted about Yusuf and his brother.
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Peace,
Isn't 9/60 strictly for believers because of 9/62?
Why the use of 'strictly'?
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The response of Yusuf was He saido you know what you did unto Joseph and his brother in your ignorance?
He wanted to show them he recognized them. There is no "Today you are asking for him".
Their response was They said Is it indeed you who are Yusuf? He said I am Yusuf. and this is my brother.They did not know him before he hinted about Yusuf and his brother.
Sisiter;
He had recognized them on the very first visit. This is the third visit, sent by their father, for the objective to search for Yusaf and retrieving their youngest brother which they lost last time because of their irrational and emotional behaviour when the staff of the warehouse lost their measuring scale.
The word "ignorance" does not fit in since now they have not become Phds. Their mishandling of Yusaf in the hildhood was because of irrational emotionalism of seeking attention and love of their father; nothing else.
We the Ajmi, particularly Iranians and Indian sub continent substitued the Arabic word "jahil" with our own word "jahil" meaning goof, illiterate, unlearned, lacking knowledge and in translations people adopted it over the time as true meaning of Arabic Jahil. In Grand Qur'aan it does not refer to Iranian and Indian perception of their word with one eye "hi". At 24 places of its use in the Qur'aan I find the issue is that of passions, emotions, emotionalism which effect an illiterate and highly literate person equally.
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4916-17
Still doesnt justify your use of 'strictly'. Anyone can give money to charity. If you want, you can keep your views on the mumin vs. muslim issue (that may be true), but dont say that it is 'strictly' for mumins, because it is not.
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Still doesnt justify your use of 'strictly'. Anyone can give money to charity. If you want, you can keep your views on the mumin vs. muslim issue (they may be true), but dont say that it is 'strictly' for mumins, because it is not.
Reading comprehension is not your cup of tea is it?
It is a REQUIREMENT for Mumins i.e. one of their characteristics, we can't force others to give to charity.
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Reading comprehension is not your cup of tea is it?
It is a REQUIREMENT for Mumins i.e. one of their characteristics, we can't force others to give to charity.
I can read perfectly well. You need to be careful in your choice of words and your reading. If you say that it is strictly for mumins only, then that would mean that others are not allowed to give to charity, which, of course, is total nonsense.
Your new word choice above makes more sense.
Do you agree that sadaqat is 'obligatory charity'?
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I can read perfectly well. You need to be careful in your choice of words and your reading. If you say that it is strictly for mumins only, then that would mean that others are not allowed to give to charity, which, of course is total nonsense.
Your new word choice above makes more sense.
Do you agree that sadaqat is 'obligatory charity'?
For believers, yes.
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Peace Wakas
Thanks, I thought so.
So what are we saying here? Is sadaqat something that must be carried out by those who accept the system of deen set out in the quran? Or is it a voluntary act even if you accept the system of deen in the quran?
Imraan
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Peace Wakas
peace Imraan,
WE are saying nothing, YOU were saying something. I have no view on this at the present time, as I have not studied it. My point was to highlight your conclusion based on 960 may not be solid, no more no less.
I have no change in my view at this time. If anything, If anything, my conviction that sadaqat in terms of 960 IS what is described by "fareedah" is now stronger. Any way I look forward to your opinion once you have studied it.
The only thing that I would like to look at now is a more in depth study of FA-RA-DAD.
Imraan
