Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace Progressive1993,
Why frustration?
Sry, didnt read the whole thing - didnt have much time,
The frustration and lack of patience that as you ADMITTED to Muse prevented you from reading her post properly. This is also the same thing that is preventing you from reading anything properly. The questions that you are asking have been addressed in my post and on PAGE 1 of this long thread. No sense repeating for someone who is not able to read properly no matter what. This is not just a problem on this thread but in all discussions that you participate in. I sincerely suggest that you get tested to see if you suffer from a learning disability so that you can correct it.
Peace,
Ayman
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The frustration and lack of patience that as you ADMITTED to Muse prevented you from reading her post properly. This is also the same thing that is preventing you from reading anything properly. The questions that you are asking have been addressed in my post and on PAGE 1 of this long thread. No sense repeating for someone who is not able to read properly no matter what. This is not just a problem on this thread but in all discussions that you participate in. I sincerely suggest that you get tested to see if you suffer from a learning disability so that you can correct it.
Thank you for your concern. I am delighted.
BTW, at least I can admit mistakes, and what I said about that post where Muse quoted some guy was true.
Instead of attacking me personally the whole time, you could have responded to the followingwe count as follows night, day... night, day.. night, day... ... ... ... (one lunar cylcle finshed) - and so on. I hope you understood. BTW, you also have used markers, namely, the summer solstices - how are you going to do it without them? You accuse my arguement to be wrong/question it because I said that Muslims use the lunar cycles - this is clearly a double standard.
How is your system unique and 'the only one' that fits with 1712? Dont you have markers as well (ie. not only calculate the year with days), namely the summer solstices?
Also, what do you say about what is said in the Bible about fasting in the ninth month of the lunar calendar?
Peace ayman,
I alredy advised him to take a I test.
I am not sure he did )Peace
- That was 'guest' whom you told that.
- We have seen your insightful, ayman-cheering posts
Also, ayman, you are showing very good and respectful arguementation skills by attacking me personally and nagging on this one thing I said about Muse's post, although the part about it being bogus is still true. I have understood and I have corrected what I have said - no need to continue on this. If you are willing to continue with the actual them of this taopic (ramadan), then I am happy to continue discussing.
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Peace Progressive1993,
Thank you for your concern. I am delighted.
BTW, at least I can admit mistakes, and what I said about that post where Muse quoted some guy was true.You are welcome. I would say the same advice to my own brother if he was not reading patiently and correctly. We all have weaknesses and the key is to indentify them so that one can cope with them by devising learning aids. For example, some people are more auditory than visual so reading out loud might help them to understand the text better and not skip things.
Instead of attacking me personally the whole time, you could have responded to the following
How is your system unique and 'the only one' that fits with 1712? Dont you have markers as well (ie. not only calculate the year with days), namely the summer solstices?This is exactly what I am talking about. The way you read, you do not try to put yourself in the shoes of the author or go a layer deeper than superficial reading. You just read "summer solstice" and think that like you (using the moon) I am using a marker not mentioned in 1712, which only mentions "day and night". What you fail to see is that the "summer solstice" is just a convenient label but go a layer deeper and you will see that it stands for "longest day and shortest night". So per 1712, I am ONLY using the night and the day to determine the number of years.
Also, what do you say about what is said in the Bible about fasting in the ninth month of the lunar calendar?
This was already answered by me as well as Rami. You are free to agree or disagree but repeating the same thing and expecting a different result only demonstrates that you have not understood our answers and have nothing further to say. Unlike you, I will not repeat the same thing and expect different results and I will not waste time on providing more info when you have not understood the first ones.
Also, ayman, you are showing very good and respectful arguementation skills by attacking me personally and nagging on this one thing I said about Muse's post, although the part about it being bogus is still true. I have understood and I have corrected what I have said - no need to continue on this. If you are willing to continue with the actual them of this taopic (ramadan), then I am happy to continue discussing.
But we can't continue to discuss if you are not able to read what I ALREADY wrote. I would suggest that you reread what I wrote while trying to put yourself in my shoes and read with a sense of depth. Afterwards, start by making a list of the things that make sense to you from reading what I wrote (doesn't matter if you agree with them or not). Next, make a list of the things that don't make sense to you. Finally, put together the two lists and see if the things that make sense to you can explain what doesn't make sense. If something still doesn't make sense then ask and I will gladly answer. This has nothing to do with agreeing or not agreeing with me. At this stage, it is clear that you don't even understand what I wrote so you are in no position to agree or not agree and this is why you keep going in circles. This is the advice that I would sincerely give to my own brother if he was in your situation.
Peace,
Ayman
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But we can't continue to discuss if you are not able to read what I ALREADY wrote. I would suggest that you reread what I wrote while trying to put yourself in my shoes and read with a sense of depth. Afterwards, start by making a list of the things that make sense to you from reading what I wrote (doesn't matter if you agree with them or not). Next, make a list of the things that don't make sense to you. Finally, put together the two lists and see if the things that make sense to you can explain what doesn't make sense. If something still doesn't make sense then ask and I will gladly answer. This has nothing to do with agreeing or not agreeing with me. At this stage, it is clear that you don't even understand what I wrote so you are in no position to agree or not agree and this is why you keep going in circles.
I will take your advice and do that.
peace
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Peace herbman
and The God rewards you,I saved the article, it is a very good one, and being a fluent french speaker, I will read it
and God willing benefit from it.Salam
NabsterFrom the document mentionned before "Story of Heraclius" some sahaba were mentionned and we can find that Othman for example died in a battle, in the arabic history it is not mentionned because they were so ashamed.
peace
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Peace Herbman,
Regarding this piece of history, I read a historical document called "Story of Heraclius" written by a christian armenian writer of the 7 th century, this writer witnessed some events and related others. Anyway he relates about arab invasion of Jerusalem and Armenia, and he mentionned that the jews of Jerusalem went to the arabs showing them that they were "cousin" by the bible, and there were requesting Mohamad for help against the Romans. Which they did and could take Jerusalem.
here is a link of the translated document in french, originaly translated from armenian.
http//remacle.org/bloodwolf/historiens/sebeos/heraclius.htmThank you for poviding this interesting link. Here is the same info in English for those who are interested
http//rbedrosian.com/seb1.htm
What I find most interesting is his accounts of the very strong alliance between the Jews and the Arabs completely contradicting the traditional accounts, which have erased all references to this important alliance and the critical role that it played in the conquests and instead made Jews the enemies. I also find interesting his brief account of the Arab civil wars which also contradicts traditional accounts.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace every one
We should refrain ourselves from throwing verses on others and calling them rejecters these verses are not for us but for those who rejected Gods command different opinions and interpretation does not make one rejecter are Mushrik. angel -
Peace every one
We should refrain ourselves from throwing verses on others and calling them rejecters these verses are not for us but for those who rejected Gods command different opinions and interpretation does not make one rejecter are Mushrik. angelPeace Afridi,
So this thread is for you to post silly characters and pictures in the middle of a serious discussion. Have you contributed anything worthwhile so far?
Muse had been fed lies by Neal Robinson as well as Ayman, so what is wrong if I post a very relevant reminder from the Qur?an. 496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
Every verses posted was relevant to the topic. You know what is the biggest problem with you people? You see the Quran as a guidance for Mushrik and rejecters not for yourselves and when you are reminded you feel offended although the reminder is directed at the believers!
Read this is a a reminder for people who believe
2951 Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Scripture, being recited to them? In that is a mercy and a reminder for people who believe.peace
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Peace Afridi,
So this thread is for you to post silly characters and pictures in the middle of a serious discussion. Have you contributed anything worthwhile so far?
Muse had been fed lies by Neal Robinson as well as Ayman, so what is wrong if I post a very relevant reminder from the Qur?an. 496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
Every verses posted was relevant to the topic. You know what is the biggest problem with you people? You see the Quran as a guidance for Mushrik and rejecters not for yourselves and when you are reminded you feel offended although the reminder is directed at the believers!
Read this is a a reminder for people who believe
2951 Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Scripture, being recited to them? In that is a mercy and a reminder for people who believe.peace
And what is this is this a reminder for believers most wise and knowledgable Farida.
And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
that is what you are conributed. ??? -
And what is this is this a reminder for believers most wise and knowledgable Farida.
And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
that is what you are conributed. ???Salaam
Yes this is a very chilling reminder for the believers not to slump to that stege, ahh if only you would pay heed to the warning.We never annihilate any community without sending warners.
By way of a reminder, and We were never unjustpeace
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Peace Afridi,
So this thread is for you to post silly characters and pictures in the middle of a serious discussion. Have you contributed anything worthwhile so far?
Muse had been fed lies by Neal Robinson as well as Ayman, so what is wrong if I post a very relevant reminder from the Qur?an. 496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
Every verses posted was relevant to the topic. You know what is the biggest problem with you people? You see the Quran as a guidance for Mushrik and rejecters not for yourselves and when you are reminded you feel offended although the reminder is directed at the believers!
Read this is a a reminder for people who believe
2951 Is it not enough for them that We have sent down to you the Scripture, being recited to them? In that is a mercy and a reminder for people who believe.peace
1753 And say to My servants (that) they speak that which is best; surely the Shaitan sows dissensions among them; surely the Shaitan is an open enemy to man.
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat17_files/17_53.gif
4134 And not alike are the good and the evil. Repel (evil) with what is best, when lo! he between whom and you was enmity would be as if he were a warm friend. )
http//www.submission.org/efarsi/arabic/Surat41_files/41_34.gif -
Peace Farida and Afridi, all,
4724 Do they not then earnestly seek to understand the Qur'an, or are their hearts locked up by them?
I actually think that it is great that you have stopped arguing and instead have been posting those very touching passages. At least this is far more useful and I encourage everyone to ponder on those passages regardless of who posted them. Only those with pure hearts not locked by traditions and preconceptions can understand the great reading. This is a very relevant passage that applies directly to this thread and the issue of timing. If one starts from a pure heart, a clean sheet, without preconceptions then one cannot in a million years reach the sectarian calendar based on understanding the great reading. I admit that I am guilty of trying to find out the timing without preconceptions and based purely on earnestly seeking to understand the great reading. If I say what I am saying here on this thread in the middle of Mecca, I would probably be arrested and put to trial (this is if I don't get stoned to death by an angry "pious" mob first). Since you are the only lawyer I know on this thread, what would you say in my defense? I really would like to know. Would you even take my case or would you join the mob?
I wish you peace,
Ayman
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Peace Farida
Since you are the only lawyer I know on this thread, what would you say in my defense? I really would like to know. Would you even take my case or would you join the mob?I wish you peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman
Sorry you will never be able to hire me I am way beyond your reach.
I wish you luck. P
farida
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So you admit that the solstice full-moon illusion is due to the full-moon taking a low path accross the horizon. Now use the following website and tell everyone the path that the full-moon took each month and tell us which TWO full-moons took the lowest path
http//aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.phpPeace,
Ayman this fact is known to all...Now, if we follow your theory and Fast During the Solstice Moon, do we have to disobey our Lord and Count 13 Moon Per Year in order to Fast every year in the Solstice Moon Period?
Great, invent an imaginery meaning for "ma'adoodat"/few (3-10) to match your preconception. As far as I remember, the dictionary didn't say that it is "relative" and that 100 million which is relatively small compared to a Billion can mean "few". What you are saying is nonsense in any language, not just Arabic. If you didn't have your preconception from the sectarian nonsense then you wouldn't be stuck and forced to invent a new illogical meaning.
Ayman, as we have told you before, Madoodat Means Counted...It Does Not Mean 3-10 nor 30 nor 100...it does not mean few, as well...Simply, COUNTED.
Peace
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Peace Ayman,
Here is the title of the entire article that you refer to
Why the Moon Looks Big at the Horizon
and Smaller When Higher UpSo you admit that the solstice full-moon illusion is due to the full-moon taking a low path accross the horizon. Now use the following website and tell everyone the path that the full-moon took each month and tell us which TWO full-moons took the lowest path
http//aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.phpThe answer is that the TWO full-moons that took the LOWEST path are the full-moons BEFORE and AFTER the summer solstice. This fact is so indisputable that I don't even need to check the data through the link about. However, since you are doubting this then post the data and show me wrong.
You did not even read the article and all the different theories;
here is the one from last year BIG ILLUSION before the solstice again....
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htmThere are other explanations, too.
http//facstaff.uww.edu/mccreadd/The scientific challenge has been to explain why those equal angular sizes look unequal.
This article is long for three reasons.
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It advances the relatively new idea (1965, 1970, 1985, 1986) that, for most people, the moon illusion begins as an angular size illusion which has several possible outcomes.
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It reviews in detail the very few explanations of the illusion that vision scientists are paying the most attention to (and still researching). These theories are not simple.
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It reviews in detail the latest theory (1985, 1986, 1989) that the moon illusion is an example of the less familiar, but ubiquitous, "size" illusion known as oculomotor micropsia/macropsia. Explanations for oculomotor micropsia then are reviewed.
For the moment, it seems to be the most satisfactory explanation.
Introduction and Summary. (Loading these links may take several seconds)
Section I. New Description of the Moon Illusion
Section II. Conventional Versus New Descriptions
Section III. Explaining the Moon Illusion
Section IV. Explaining Oculomotor Micropsia
Bibliography and McCready VITA
Appendix A. The (New) Theory
Appendix B. Analysis of the Murray, Boyaci & Kersten (2006) ExperimentThe initial version of this article was placed on this web site in May, 1999 .
Major revisions were made in December 2002.
This entire article was revised on November 10, 2004.Then, extremely important research on visual angle illusions was published in March 2006 in Nature Neuroscience. The article is, ?The representation of perceived angular size in human primary visual cortex,? by Murray, S. O., Boyaci, H., & Kersten, D. (2006).
It fully supports the approach advocated here, so it is reviewed in the "Technical Note added June 7, 2006., in the Introduction and Summary Section,It is analyzed in detail in Appendix B (posted February 5, 2007).
FACT THERE WAS NO FULL MOON ILLUSION AFTER THE SOLSTICE ON JULY 18, 2008!
FACT You did NOT witness a full moon illusion after sunset last year on JULY 18, 2008!
FACT No one saw a full moon illusion (they called it a regular full moon) which was NOT even full after sunset!
http//www.timeanddate.com/calendar/moonphases.html?year=2008&n=263
Data for July 18, 2008 http//aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/AltAz.phpTime Altitude Azimuth Fraction Illuminated
0000 27.0 177.4 1.00
0010 27.0 179.9 1.00
0020 27.0 182.4 1.00
0030 26.9 184.9 1.00
0040 26.7 187.4 1.00
0050 26.5 189.9 1.00
0100 26.1 192.4 1.00
0110 25.7 194.8 1.00
0120 25.2 197.2 1.00
0130 24.6 199.6 1.00
0140 24.0 202.0 1.00
0150 23.3 204.3 1.00
0200 22.5 206.5 1.00
0210 21.6 208.8 1.00
0220 20.7 211.0 1.00
0230 19.7 213.1 1.00
0240 18.7 215.2 1.00
0250 17.6 217.2 1.00
0300 16.4 219.3 1.00
0310 15.2 221.2 1.00
0320 14.0 223.1 1.00
0330 12.7 225.0 1.00
0340 11.4 226.8 1.00
0350 10.0 228.6 1.00
0400 8.6 230.4 1.00 FULL MOON July 18TH @359 AM
0410 7.2 232.1 1.00
0420 5.7 233.8 1.00
0430 4.2 235.4 1.00
0440 2.8 237.0 1.00
0450 1.3 238.6 1.00
0500 -0.1 240.2 1.00
0510 -2.3 241.7 1.00
0520 -4.0 243.2 1.00
0530 -5.6 244.7 1.00
0540 -7.3 246.1 1.00
0550 -9.0 247.6 1.00
0600 -10.8 249.0 1.001900 -11.2 108.0 1.00
1910 -9.4 109.4 1.00
1920 -7.6 110.8 1.00
1930 -5.9 112.3 1.00
1940 -4.1 113.7 1.00
1950 -2.4 115.2 1.00
2000 -0.1 116.7 0.99
2010 1.4 118.2 0.99 NOT FULL MOON AFTER SUNSET!
2020 2.9 119.7 0.99
2030 4.5 121.3 0.99
2040 6.1 122.9 0.99
2050 7.7 124.5 0.99
2100 9.2 126.2 0.99
2110 10.7 127.9 0.99
2120 12.2 129.7 0.99
2130 13.7 131.5 0.99
2140 15.1 133.3 0.99
2150 16.4 135.2 0.99
2200 17.8 137.2 0.99
2210 19.1 139.2 0.99
2220 20.3 141.2 0.99
2230 21.5 143.3 0.99
2240 22.6 145.5 0.99
2250 23.7 147.7 0.99
2300 24.7 149.9 0.99
2310 25.6 152.2 0.99
2320 26.5 154.6 0.99
2330 27.3 157.0 0.99
2340 28.0 159.5 0.99
2350 28.7 162.0 0.99FACT THE ONLY FULL MOON ILLUSION EVERYONE SAW LAST YEAR WAS BEFORE THE SOLSTICE!
Image taken Jun. 18, 2008 LocationWeilimdorf, near Stuttgart, Germany
http//spaceweather.com/submissions/pics/s/Stefan-Seip-spaceweather080618a_1213833046.jpg
Image taken June 18, 2008 Location Manchester, Maryland.
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/images/moonillusion/Kasaitis1_strip.jpg
Image taken June 18, 2008 Location Greece.
http//spaceweather.com/swpod2008/19jun08/Elias-Chasiotis1_strip2.jpgImage taken Jun. 18, 2008 Location Terre Haute, Indiana
http//spaceweather.com/submissions/pics/r/Robin-Smith-9-007_1213868025_med.jpg
http//spaceweather.com/submissions/pics/r/Robin-Smith-9-010_1213868025_med.jpg
FACT YOU ARE FASTING ON THE WRONG HOT MOON!
FACT YOU HAVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG AND STILL POST ABOUT ILLUSIONS!
Now, you want to admit that full moon illusion has ZERO to do with this and move on to the next question or do you want to say that you or anyone else saw a full moon illusion last year July 18 after the solstice?
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Peace belH
Peace,
Ayman this fact is known to all...Now, if we follow your theory and Fast During the Solstice Moon, do we have to disobey our Lord and Count 13 Moon Per Year in order to Fast every year in the Solstice Moon Period?
this one is easy, let the cheerleader captain answer No we count 12 full moons/not months between 2 summer solstices. And eventually skip counting the 13th full moon/not months to keep in sync with seasons.
Ayman, as we have told you before, Madoodat Means Counted...It Does Not Mean 3-10 nor 30 nor 100...it does not mean few, as well...Simply, COUNTED.
i don't agree , look for any arabic text with the word "ma3doodaat" in it. then ask any arabic speaker to tell you how many does "ma3doodat" in that context means.
if i tell you that your days are COUNTED/ma3doodat, it means that there's something you should worry about. -
Peace Belal,
Ayman this fact is known to all...Now, if we follow your theory and Fast During the Solstice Moon, do we have to disobey our Lord and Count 13 Moon Per Year in order to Fast every year in the Solstice Moon Period?
Who said that I am counting 13? I am only counting 12 and skipping the 13th. Do you think that it is a coincidence that when I do this as per 936 the lunar cycle gets automatically adjusted with the solar cycle, and remains in sync even 1 Million years from now?
It is not my problem that you don't know what "count" means. Please tell everyone the difference between "count" (3idat) and number ("3adad" and how one can count.
Moreover, as I explained to Progressive1993, you are now counting month # 17169 and haven?t stopped the counting at 12. If you took month 2 as month 1 then the present sectarian Ramadhan would have been month 17168 and you would be fasting next month. So as I said, because you haven?t stopped counting with 12 as ordered in 936 and instead kept counting, your present day month #17169 is tied to your month 1 and can never be independent from it. So you have now been violating 936 for the past 17157 lunar months. This is indisputable.
Ayman, as we have told you before, Madoodat Means Counted...It Does Not Mean 3-10 nor 30 nor 100...it does not mean few, as well...Simply, COUNTED.
First of all what you are saying is completely baseless, not only according to Classical Arabic dictionaries, but also as anyone who knows Arabic can tell you. For example, if you say to your wife "I am traveling ayyam ma3doodat", she will never think that you mean to tell her that you will be gone for 1000 days (also counted) or 100 days or even 30 days. You and I and everyone who has even a basic understanding of Arabic knows this fact. So as an Arabic speaker you shouldn't be so desperate to justify your preconceptions that you forget how you speak at home.
Second, this doesn't resolve the redundancy. Why supposedly say "counted days" if it is known that "shahr" is a lunar cycle or 29-30 days? The god doesn't say useless and redundant things that are unnecessary.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace belH
this one is easy, let the cheerleader captain answer No we count 12 full moons/not months between 2 summer solstices. And eventually skip counting the 13th full moon/not months to keep in sync with seasons.
Who Gave you the authority to Subtract a MOON...If Ayman is your LORD, who gave you the authority to do so, will... He is not Mine...My Lord is Allah who authenticated the Guidance in the Quran...He did not gave me the authority to Subtract a Moon.
i don't agree , look for any arabic text with the word "ma3doodaat" in it. then ask any arabic speaker to tell you how many does "ma3doodat" in that context means.
if i tell you that your days are COUNTED/ma3doodat, it means that there's something you should worry about.I'm an Arabic Speaker...
The Root word for Ma3doodat is 3ad, which mean COUNT.
If someone tell me that my days are Madoodat, then I will tell him "You are full of it...Only God knows the years Count of anybody's life.By the way, if you will call your self a Cheerleader Captain, please you need to change your Gender Symbol.
Peace
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Peace Eid,
You did not even read the article and all the different theories;
here is the one from last year BIG ILLUSION before the solstice again....
http//science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/16jun_moonillusion.htm http//facstaff.uww.edu/mccreadd/
FACT THERE WAS NO FULL MOON ILLUSION AFTER THE SOLSTICE ON JULY 18, 2008!
FACT You did NOT witness a full moon illusion after sunset last year on JULY 18, 2008!
FACT No one saw a full moon illusion (they called it a regular full moon) which was NOT even full after sunset!
FACT THE ONLY FULL MOON ILLUSION EVERYONE SAW LAST YEAR WAS BEFORE THE SOLSTICE!
FACT YOU ARE FASTING ON THE WRONG HOT MOON!
FACT YOU HAVE BEEN PROVEN WRONG AND STILL POST ABOUT ILLUSIONS!
Now, you want to admit that full moon illusion has ZERO to do with this and move on to the next question or do you want to say that you or anyone else saw a full moon illusion last year July 18 after the solstice?Instead of all your babbling just answer those two simple YES or NO question
The TWO full-moons that take the LOWEST path accross the horizon are the full-moons BEFORE and AFTER the summer solstice. YES or NO?
The temperature is hotter at the time of the full-moon AFTER the summer solstice than the one BEFORE it. YES or NO?
Remember that "scorching" has two connotations, hot and red. If you are not smart enough to answer the above two simple questions then you are in no position to provide any valid opinion on anything.
Peace,
Ayman