Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
-
Jack, I addressed this point when raised by Wakas (please read reply 107, 110, and 111 of this thread).
Umm, you didn't address anything. 538 mentions thieves and their punishment. 1273-75 mentions thieves and their punishment.
1273-75
They said "By God, you know we did not come to cause corruption in the land, and we are no thieves!" He said "What shall be the punishment, if you are not truthful? They said "The punishment is that whomever it is found in his bags, then he shall remain as punishment. It is such that we punish the wicked."
-
Umm, you didn't address anything. 538 mentions thieves and their punishment. 1273-75 mentions thieves and their punishment.
1273-75
They said "By God, you know we did not come to cause corruption in the land, and we are no thieves!" He said "What shall be the punishment, if you are not truthful? They said "The punishment is that whomever it is found in his bags, then he shall remain as punishment. It is such that we punish the wicked."
The Red words are Wrong translation
This is the Word By Word, without adding words1275
They Said
His Punishment
Who
Found
In
His Bags
for him
His Punishment
That is how
We Punish
the TransgressorsThe punishment is that whomever it is found in his bags, then he shall be punished. It is such that we punish the transgreeors."
-
peace BelH, all,
Seems you may have stumbled on something whilst attempting to correctly translate 1275 ;D
Allow me, as a non-Arabic speaker
They Said
its recompense (see previous sign 1274 for usage of "jazaohu" and what it refers to)
who
found
in
his bag
then him ("fa" means so/then)
its recompense
like that
We recompense
the wrongdoersJZY means recompense, not punishment, e.g. see 585
Comment?
-
Peace belH
it is ok,
we are just discussing...
i will be glad you will not be an islamic judge in charge of interpretation of passing of judgments though, because your mind lack logic, is not thorough, and generally pretty messed up ;D
everything we have discussed so far is null and void without due process which includes tamkeen filardh, and shurah...
Salam
NobleMe too. I was never stubborn to change, when I was wrong according to Quran, as I told you and everyone before.
The verse is very clear in meaning.
-
peace BelH, all,
Seems you may have stumbled on something whilst attempting to correctly translate 1275 ;D
Allow me, as a non-Arabic speaker
They Said
its recompense (see previous sign 1274 for usage of "jazaohu" and what it refers to)
who
found
in
his bag
then him ("fa" means so/then)
its recompense
like that
We recompense
the wrongdoersJZY means recompense, not punishment, e.g. see 585
Comment?
Let us not make it sound like a challenge, rather, learning debate
here is the precise meaning of the Word
to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital, have become recognized as they deserve.It mean
A PRICE OF WHAT YOU DID-------YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVEIt can be used to mean reward (e.g., 5-85, 18-88, 20-76, 32-17) or can be used to mean punishment (e.g., 5-33, 5-38, 5-95, 9-26);
-
Peace belH
and how about Qasas?Let us not make it sound like a challenge, rather, learning debate
here is the precise meaning of the Word
to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital, have become recognized as they deserve.It mean
A PRICE OF WHAT YOU DID-------YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVEIt can be used to mean reward (e.g., 5-85, 18-88, 20-76, 32-17) or can be used to mean punishment (e.g., 5-33, 5-38, 5-95, 9-26);
-
peace Belh
Going to back to your first post i'll quote one part
To me, this seems like another sect that has its own laws that are not 100% from Quran; thus, they are promoting what is not 100% Pure Islam.
If you think free-minds is a sect then your system is also a sect.
Simple Free-minds has x understanding from Quran, you have Y understanding from Quran 19ers have z understanding from Quran. Difference is some sects are more extreme and use less of their reason, heart and intellect.
Also one more thing
You acknowledge the Quran.
The Quran advises to use reason
A verse in the Quran says amputate thieves hands
This goes against reason and heart
Thus......... what do you do???What's more important. Your heart, reason, intellect or you interpretation of the Quran?
On the day of judgement if a judge is asked why did you order the amputation of that thieves hand?
Does "That's what i thought that the Quran said even though it went against my heart and reason" sound acceptable?
where as on the other hand if a judge was asked "why did you not order the amputation of the thieves hand when that is what you understood of the QUran"
and the judge responds with "it went against my heart and reason" is acceptable
-
After rereading my post, it appears that i am implying that you are unreasonable.
I'm sorry. That's not what i meant. What i'm trying to convey is that in the case of amputation you are sacrificing heart and reason for you understanding of the Quran.
handshake peace
-
peace Belh
Going to back to your first post i'll quote one part
If you think free-minds is a sect then your system is also a sect.
Simple Free-minds has x understanding from Quran, you have Y understanding from Quran 19ers have z understanding from Quran. Difference is some sects are more extreme and use less of their reason, heart and intellect.
Peace,
You are right, I do not belong to Fee-minds.org Party (Sect).
However, there are two parties
Allah's Party
5822 You will not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day leaning towards those who oppose God and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their kin. For these, He decrees faith into their hearts, and supports them with a Spirit from Him, and He admits them into estates with rivers flowing beneath them; abiding therein. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. These are the Sect of God. Most assuredly, the party of God are the winners.
5822The Evil Party
The evil is an enemy to you, so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his party to be the dwellers of Hell.
356You acknowledge the Quran.
The Quran advises to use reason
A verse in the Quran says amputate thieves hands
This goes against reason and heart
Thus......... what do you do???What's more important. Your heart, reason, intellect or you interpretation of the Quran?
On the day of judgement if a judge is asked why did you order the amputation of that thieves hand?
Does "That's what i thought that the Quran said even though it went against my heart and reason" sound acceptable?
where as on the other hand if a judge was asked "why did you not order the amputation of the thieves hand when that is what you understood of the QUran"
and the judge responds with "it went against my heart and reason" is acceptable
It is never been our choice when it comes to God's Orders...We only can Say "We Heard and We Obey"; as Abraham (PBUH) did when asked to slaughter His Own beloved Son.
After rereading my post, it appears that i am implying that you are unreasonable.
I'm sorry. That's not what i meant. What i'm trying to convey is that in the case of amputation you are sacrificing heart and reason for you understanding of the Quran.
peace you are fine.
I would never dare to question my Lord's Orders when clear and Precise...Our Lord's Wisdom is Hard to grasp with our Logic.
-
-
Peace all,
belH why you use sunni fiqh and tricks to quiz me and people here?
you said before you came here to learn, but now it seems you want to impose your views...
you are behaving like a hypocrite, saying something, and being something else...
i do not want to deal with hypocrites...
if you are here to learn, then stop trying to force your views on people or the web-site...
there are plenty of sunni web-sites who have your views, and you can set up your own with exactly your views.
if you are correct, Allah will make you succeed...for now, i wish you well, but feel very disappointed by your lack of honesty...
-
peace belH ...
why do you think am i obliged to answer any of your question?
especially when i suspect you are a follower of any groups i do not wish to have anything to do with anymore!!!
and who are you to dare quizzing us, have we paid you to teach us anything? -
peace belH ...
why do you think am i obliged to answer any of your question?
especially when i suspect you are a follower of any groups i do not wish to have anything to do with anymore!!!
and who are you to dare quizzing us, have we paid you to teach us anything?Do not take it personally, you are not an arabic speaker as you said before...otherwise, you could have translated Four simple arabic words.
Sorry to say it, but you are a LAIR who just got busted rotfl
-
Peace belH
it is ok, i can take anything from fools, so long as they are behind a grilled fence, or an internet connection ;D
if your read my previous posts i said my arabic was rusty as i do not use it much, apart from Quran, but i refuse to answer quizzes...
you have veered off what we were talking about, which was what interested me (how Allah in Quran asked us to deal with theft).
You also are very weak in logic, and fiqh, but until now i have been kind and refrained from calling you a retard and a jahil, but since you are calling me a liar, i guess you are forcing my hand.
That being said my last question, which is relevant to a Quranic question you asked me about hudud was Qasas, you dodged it....What about Qasas?
-
peace BelH, all,
It can be used to mean reward (e.g., 5-85, 18-88, 20-76, 32-17) or can be used to mean punishment (e.g., 5-33, 5-38, 5-95, 9-26);
Firstly, you are using context to interpret what it means in these examples. This does not change the actual meaning of the word.
Secondly, please cite a reference from a Classical Arabic dictionary which says the word itself means "punishment".
Thirdly, the problem of taking the word to mean "punishment" in some verses means it simply will not fit in other verses. And the only reason for doing this, as far as I can see, is to justify an incorrect or lesser likely interpretation of 1275.The primary and oft-used meaning is "recompense", this is FACT. But, for sake of argument, let's say it means "punishment", let's see if this fits into 1274-75. Allow me to re-quote what I said
They Said
its recompense (see previous sign 1274 for usage of "jazaohu" and what it refers to)
who
found
in
his bag
then him ("fa" means so/then)
its recompense
like that
We recompense
the wrongdoersDo you deny the parts in bold?
Now, BelH, and forum readers, insert "punishment" instead of "recompense" in the above and see if the verse makes sense.
Let us know what happens. ;D
The perfect way is only difficult for those who pick and choose. Do not like, do not dislike; all will then be clear. Make a hairbreadth difference and heaven and earth are set apart; if you want the truth to stand clear before you, never be for or against. The struggle between "for" and "against" is the mind's worst disease ~Bruce Lee
