Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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Peace belH, Wakas,
you are still arguing on this subject, you are very patient, i command you )
for me it is not joseph story that convince me that amputating hand is not what the ayah means,
only the way the sentence is written, the logic of the way we can deal with such offenses, and the fact that
Allah does not command stupid things, the Most Wise.
now for the reason Joseph story cannot be taken as proof anyway, is because nothing was forbidden to bani israeel but
what bani israeel forbade themselves before revelation of Torah to Moses...
for your hypothetical example of desert island and repeat offender, as a judge, i will enforce forced labour under guard or in confinement away from the community with people like him, or even putting to death...
i am sorry, taking prisoners or mutilating for me is not islamic and is an abomination, and if they have been mentioned in the Quran, is only to show the powerful disbelievers that this is how they should be punished because this is how they punish their weak people and slaves before (but instead have no law for themselves and a law for their slaves)...
How can you accept that a Deen that encourage people to free slaves, will then encourage mutilation and taking prisoners?
even killing is last resort, and it has to be with consultation with victims who can accept compensation and forgive...
In Islam, there should not be prisons, no torture, no maiming, no mutilation, and no encouragement to slavery, in fact the only reason slavery was tolerated still is because it was so prevalent at the time of the Prophet, but eventually, the Quran showed that the reward to free slaves is very high with Allah...
the only corporal punishment for the believers in the Quran is Zina, it is clearly defined, clearly explained, and in a Surah that is very powerful...
take it or leave it, but this is my strong belief...
alfitnatu ashaddu minalkatli -
I do not think the "consequence" is a good translation for . It's best translated as "recompense".
My understanding is
1274
(the pronoun in refers to the cup the recompense for the cup)
They said what's its recompense if you were liars?1274They said its recompense, whoever it's found in his bag is its recompense. 1275
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for your hypothetical example of desert island and repeat offender, as a judge, i will enforce forced labour under guard or in confinement away from the community with people like him, or even putting to death...
i am sorry, taking prisoners or mutilating for me is not islamic and is an abomination, and if they have been mentioned in the Quran, is only to show the powerful disbelievers that this is how they should be punished because this is how they punish their weak people and slaves before (but instead have no law for themselves and a law for their slaves)...
How can you accept that a Deen that encourage people to free slaves, will then encourage mutilation and taking prisoners?
even killing is last resort, and it has to be with consultation with victims who can accept compensation and forgive...Peace Nabster,
Please note that to be the Judge in this community, You MUST use the Quran...It is a Precondition, otherwise, you cannot be the Judge.
Please, you need to quote the Verses that Supports your Judgment (i.e., Killing the thief)
Peace
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I do not think the "consequence" is a good translation for . It's best translated as "recompense".
My understanding is
1274
(the pronoun in refers to the cup the recompense for the cup)
They said what's its recompense if you were liars?1274They said its recompense, whoever it's found in his bag is its recompense. 1275
Do you mean this meaning
to give something to by way of compensation (as for a service rendered or damage incurred) b to pay for
2 to return in kind requite
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Do you mean this meaning
to give something to by way of compensation (as for a service rendered or damage incurred)Almost. I referred to the noun, not the verb
More precisely
"Payment given to someone because of slight problems or because of the loss of or damage to their propertye.g I received ?500 from the local council in recompense for the damage to my garden".
(Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
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I do not think the "consequence" is a good translation for . It's best translated as "recompense".
Samia,
This how I translate 5-38...Do you think I made a mistake in my translation?538
And the Thief (Male)
and the Thief (Female)
Cut
Their Hands
as an Outcome
for what
they earn
as a Harsh Punishment
from
Allah
and Allah
Nobel
Wise -
Almost. I referred to the noun, not the verb
More precisely
"Payment given to someone because of slight problems or because of the loss of or damage to their propertye.g I received ?500 from the local council in recompense for the damage to my garden".
(Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
But you are ignoring the Fact that Can be Taking Money, instead of giving, because of a damage that is caused by the person Whom you are taking the money from...Thus, Outcome Fits better because it can be used both way (as a reward or Punishment)
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But you are ignoring the Fact that Can be Taking Money, instead of giving, because of a damage that is caused by the person Whom you are taking the money from...Thus, Outcome Fits better because it can be used both way (as a reward or Punishment)
They are taking the brother...as a recompense for the lost cup
"The recompense for it; whomever the cup is in his bag is the recompense for it" 1275. -
They are taking the brother...as a recompense for the lost cup
"The recompense for it; whomever the cup is in his bag is the recompense for it" 1275.Samia, has one meaning that can Fit in all the Quran, That is the Outcome. However, Recompense can not fit in all the verses (unless in cases when there is a reward, but will never when there is punishment)...Thus, Outcome is the Right word.
Now, if the punishment were to take the thief, then, what are they were going to do with him?
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Samia,
This how I translate 5-38...Do you think I made a mistake in my translation?538
And the Thief (Male)
and the Thief (Female)
Cut
Their Hands
as a Recompense/Outcome (Outcome fits the meaning better)
for what
they earn
as a Harsh Punishment
from
Allah
and Allah
Nobel
WiseI do not see a problem with recompense here. Changing their behaviour by ending the causes of their stealing habit (cut their hands, as we say in cut their tongue make them stop telling false things) is a replacement for the stealing habit. I see it as something to replace anther.
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Samia, has one meaning that can Fit in all the Quran, That is the Outcome. However, Recompense can not fit any all the verses...Thus, Outcome is the Right word.
Now, if the punishment were to take the thief, then, what are they were going to do with him?
How can keeping the brother be the outcome of stealing the cup?
It's a weird outcome, I would say ??? -
Peace belH,
i do not like science fiction, but the guy you are talking about seems to be suffering from kleptomania which is a psychiatric
disorder in which the patient has an uncontrollable urge to steal, so you are right, it will be cruel to kill him/her, instead treatment
will be more acceptable
The treatment of kleptomania with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (like lexapro or effexor)... oki? and probably counseling too )about the ayat on theft even without Samia advice, I still do not agree with your interpretation,
but I have to accept Samia translation because her Arabic is much better than mine...jazaa is closer to reward / recompense,
for outcome in arabic one would say i guess natijah, hasilahPeace Nabster,
Please note that to be the Judge in this community, You MUST use the Quran...It is a Precondition, otherwise, you cannot be the Judge.
Please, you need to quote the Verses that Supports your Judgment (i.e., Killing the thief)
Peace
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theNabster explained what I wanted to, re "outcome".
The Outcome could be a reward, Punishment or Mutual (i.e., Salary is the outcome of working)
Can you translate theseReward/recompense is of the same kind as what is done; but this is meaningless and too simplified
If I teach, the outcome is that students learn; my recompense can be money, payment.
If I teach, and the outcome was negative (students did not learn because they were not serious) I will still get paid as a recompense for my work.
So, same work, same recompense and different outcome. -
Peace belH,
i do not like science fiction, but the guy you are talking about seems to be suffering from kleptomania which is a psychiatric
disorder in which the patient has an uncontrollable urge to steal, so you are right, it will be cruel to kill him/her, instead treatment
will be more acceptable
The treatment of kleptomania with serotonin reuptake inhibitors (like lexapro or effexor)... oki? and probably counseling too )Peace Nabster,
99% of today thieves steal because they want to get richer...Do you think a psychological treatment is the proper punishment? Do you think that is how Medoff (the one who stole 50 Billion dollar) should have been punished?
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theNabster explained what I wanted to, re "outcome".
Reward/recompense is of the same kind as what is done; but this is meaningless and too simplified
If I teach, the outcome is that students learn; my recompense can be money, payment.
If I teach, and the outcome was negative (students did not learn because they were not serious) I will still get paid as a recompense for my work.
So, same work, same recompense and different outcome.In your example, there are Four (4) Outcomes, two for the student, if he pay attention or not (the outcomes are learn or not), and two for you, if you did a good Job or not (you get paid or not).
Can you translate these
29-5
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Peace belH,
I won't be so sure, where did you pick this statistic, from the air, or from an electrical impulse in your brain?
besides, after the first few millions, people do not really need more money, it is indeed a disease anyway, but encouraged by
a crazy system...
you know very well who end up being punished, it is always the poor...
this time seems an exception, but in fact if you look deep it was not...
Mr Medoff as you call him did what he had to do >DPeace Nabster,
99% of today thieves steal because they want to get richer...Do you think a psychological treatment is the proper punishment? Do you think that is how Medoff (the one who stole 50 Billion dollar) should have been punished?
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Not applicable, speculative, he did not operate in a muslim country, there is no muslim state, and he is not a muslim...
the law applicable on him has been applied...Peace,
Well, you do not have to answer if you choose to, however, your answer will help us to reach to our Lord's truth.
peace