Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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5677 It is an honorable Reading.
5678 In a protected Book.Does this mean all the books or just Quran?
Peace
Hope
Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
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peace guys, gals,
as i feared belH has completely lost it ...Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
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Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeThe 1st example is open for a choice of meaning depending on context.
The 2nd example is not open for a choice of meaning and can only be a phsyical cutting/cutting-up.Such is the difference between 533 and 538.
Peace all,
This is an understanding that came in mind about the use of the Verb
When I ask to butcher to "E-Qata 2 pound of Meat", He would Cut one 2 Lb piece from the whole Cow (The verb action is one action)...Then the Butcher would ask me by saying "Do you want to "Te-Qatta the piece of Meat" into small pieces (the Verb action would be repeated).
Thus, 5-33 refers to repeating the Action of Cutting in order to cut Legs and Hands, and 5-38 refers to Cut one thing (the Hand/s).
The above understanding just came in my mind--It could be right or wrong.
Peace -
This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.
I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option
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Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
Peace belH
A good question. But consider this also, why the need for Injeel and Quran if Torah was enough? Also consider this verses
277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what
they declare?
278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except
by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say
?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap
price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to
them for what they gained.What is it talking about? Who is concealing? Who are the Gentiles who only know of the book through hearsay and only conjecture? Also who is God talking about in 279?
Peace
Hope
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But consider this also, why the need for Injeel and Quran if Torah was enough?
God revealed the Injeel to expose the Wrong teachings of the Jews who wrote other books beside the Torah (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the Torah Teachings, and to change some of the Torah Laws.
However, He also taught Jesus the True meanings of the Torah.
God Revealed the Quran to expose the Wrong Teachings of the Jews and the Christians who wrote other books beside the Torah and Injeel (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the True teachings, and change some of the laws of the Torah and Injeel. However, God ordered the Prophet Mohamed to learn and believe in the Torah and Injeel.Also consider this verses
277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what
they declare?
278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except
by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say
?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap
price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to
them for what they gained.What is it talking about? Who is concealing? Who are the Gentiles who only know of the book through hearsay and only conjecture? Also who is God talking about in 279?
It is talking about everyone who write religion Books to mislead people from the True Religion Books (Quran, Torah, and Injeel). Example, The Hadith Book, and the Talmud.
The Religious Lords (e.g., Imams, ulamas and Priests) are the ones who are concealing the True Teachings of the True Books.
the Gentiles are the ones who do not know the True teachings of the Books, and they follow their trusted Religious Leaders' Teachings.
Please see above for your question about 2-79.
Peace -
I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option
Peace,
When someone steals from you and he gets caught, does the court gives you (the victim) the option to choose what would be the Punishment of the Thief (Civil Case Progressive 1993 Vs the Thief) ; or the Case becomes The Society Vs The Thief (criminal Case).
The Quran laws is the same as today's Society Laws...The Laws the Prophet had to use to govern his society...There are some Civil Laws (Humans Vs Criminal) and some other are Criminal Laws (God Vs the Criminal). -
God revealed the Injeel to expose the Wrong teachings of the Jews who wrote other books beside the Torah (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the Torah Teachings, and to change some of the Torah Laws.
However, He also taught Jesus the True meanings of the Torah.
God Revealed the Quran to expose the Wrong Teachings of the Jews and the Christians who wrote other books beside the Torah and Injeel (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the True teachings, and change some of the laws of the Torah and Injeel. However, God ordered the Prophet Mohamed to learn and believe in the Torah and Injeel.It is talking about everyone who write religion Books to mislead people from the True Religion Books (Quran, Torah, and Injeel). Example, The Hadith Book, and the Talmud.
The Religious Lords (e.g., Imams, ulamas and Priests) are the ones who are concealing the True Teachings of the True Books.
the Gentiles are the ones who do not know the True teachings of the Books, and they follow their trusted Religious Leaders' Teachings.
Please see above for your question about 2-79.
PeacePeace belH
Thank you for your explenation. I have one more question and hope I am not troubling you or taking up too much of your time and thank you for your patients. If the Injeel was delivered to teach the true Torah and then the Quran to expose the prevous books fallacies then do we have the true Injeel and Torah in circulation today? Or is the Injeel and Torah in todays circulation been corrupted?
Peace
Hope
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Peace belH
Thank you for your explenation. I have one more question and hope I am not troubling you or taking up too much of your time and thank you for your patients. If the Injeel was delivered to teach the true Torah and then the Quran to expose the prevous books fallacies then do we have the true Injeel and Torah in circulation today? Or is the Injeel and Torah in todays circulation been corrupted?
Peace
Hope
Peace,
Please feel free to ask anytime, however, understand that I'm a Human who can make mistakes (thus, your knowledge should be based on God's Teachings).I believe that the Torah and Injeel exist today as the Quran...however, the Translations and the addition of the other books have made us confused of knowing which versions of of Torah and Injeel (and the translated Quran for the non arabic speakers) are the True ones... I myself, use the Quran as a Measure to judge the existing Books; and I always put in my mind that all the teachings of our Lord should Match with each others.
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Peace,
When someone steals from you and he gets caught, does the court gives you (the victim) the option to choose what would be the Punishment of the Thief (Civil Case Progressive 1993 Vs the Thief) ; or the Case becomes The Society Vs The Thief (criminal Case).
The Quran laws is the same as today's Society Laws...The Laws the Prophet had to use to govern his society...There are some Civil Laws (Humans Vs Criminal) and some other are Criminal Laws (God Vs the Criminal).That's not what I meant/was getting at... I was just showing that God's law in 538 of cutting the resources makes more sense. Why would the victim care whether or not the theif's hands are getting cut off or not when he/she doesnt get compensation?
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Peace,
Please feel free to ask anytime, however, understand that I'm a Human who can make mistakes (thus, your knowledge should be based on God's Teachings).I believe that the Torah and Injeel exist today as the Quran...however, the Translations and the addition of the other books have made us confused of knowing which versions of of Torah and Injeel (and the translated Quran for the non arabic speakers) are the True one... I myself, use the Quran as a Measure to judge the existing Books; and I always put in my mind that all the teachings of our Lord should Match with each others.
Peace belH
Thank you. As a side note my knowledge is based on
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the
best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are
the ones who possess intelligence.Peace
Hope
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Peace belH
Thank you. As a side note my knowledge is based on
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the
best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are
the ones who possess intelligence.Peace
Hope
peace
The Best of what is being said is "what matches what God Has Said in the Books"
That's not what I meant/was getting at... I was just showing that God's law in 538 of cutting the resources makes more sense. Why would the victim care whether or not the theif's hands are getting cut off or not when he/she doesnt get compensation?
538
The above Large Words say that the Punishment is "God's Sever Punishment" and not the choice of the "Victim".
The Case becomes God Vs the Thief (criminal Case and not a Civil)
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The above Large Words say that the Punishment is "God's Sever Punishment" and not the choice of the "Victim".
The Case becomes God Vs the Thief (criminal Case and not a Civil)
You totally missed my point... giveup
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You totally missed my point... giveup
I do not think so, however, What is your point?
I believe Your point was Is the Punishment of the Thief, in 5-38, to compensate for the Victim's suffering or not...And I told you it is not, rather, it is God's revenge against those who used their God giving Hands to Corrupt the Society instead of Building.
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belH, peace
you do not look like you need help...
just a stubborn religious freak that's all...I was never been an Imam before or I ever wrote an article about religion...I'm only a Hunter who likes to Hunt those who seek to misguide others...I'm good in inflecting harms in their leadership credibility by exposing their Ignorance...and in doing so, their Blood pressure tends to raise and their blood cholesterol level becomes above 700.
eat
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I was never been an Imam before or I ever wrote an article about religion...I'm only a Hunter who likes to Hunt those who seek to misguide others...I'm good in inflecting harms in their leadership credibility by exposing their Ignorance...and in doing so, their Blood pressure tends to raise and their blood cholesterol level becomes above 700.
eat
& & hmm
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I do not think so, however, What is your point?
I believe Your point was Is the Punishment of the Thief, in 5-38, to compensate for the Victim's suffering or not...And I told you it is not, rather, it is God's revenge against those who used their God giving Hands to Corrupt the Society instead of Building.
Of course it is to compensate the victim. Because otherwise what you're suggesting is that the loss is just the victims problem. Who cares? nobody, not even God. Do you honestly believe in that? Society will end up suffering much more by crippling someone capable of working than forcing them to re-pay and then keeping an eye on them. Either they will have to continue their wrong ways to make a living, because who wants to hire and employ an obvious thief. And who is looking for a cripple to work at their workshop? that, or society will have to support them and their families. The idea that harsh punishments have any effect is simpleton and proven wrong by time and history itself, allow me to elaborate China who are in the luxury position not to have to worry about such petty issues as human rights found themselves facing a drug problem. It seemed that a miserable state turns out miserable people with a desire for anything to FUBAR them. So what how did china react? Well they rounded up all the people they could find that used or sold drugs and shot them. This incident is for obvious reasons not very well documented, but what IS well documented is the fact that China still have drug problems. How? what line of punishment or dismembering could be any more harsh or send a clearer signal than how China handled the drug problem? Nothing that I can think of on this side of 1945, but the problem persisted.
This is because the root cause of the problem has not been addressed. Weed is like that as well. You can remove weeds from your lovely little garden all day long, but it will keep coming back until you take the problem by it's root. Literally(!). Cutting off hands is removing a single weed and at the cost of all of society afterwards. Nothing solved, and no signals worth a damn has been send out (case in point china).
A society needs to figure out what makes people steal, and if any of those explanations ends at; They had no food and no job was offered them. Well, then society itself is the root-crook like it or not. YOu can punish open greed, but to punish people all ready on their knees, doing things that hurts their own souls merely to survive is plain cruel, misinformed, and simpleton in all it's unholy glory.
edit There is another side to it as well. The nature of desperation. In some parts of the world people are so desperate for food that they will throw themselves in front of moving vehicles just to get to the hospital where there is food, and perhaps a minor stately insurance. If someone that desperate knew that the state would have to fend for them if it crippled them for what ever reason, I think you would see an actual hand-cutting industry grow out of people who are not actually dangerous criminals, but desperate enough to abuse even such a system for whatever measly gains they can get from it. even if it is at the cost of a hand or two.