Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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Salam,
Sorry, but I never heard this before;
So why do you then keep arguing?
the Verb meaning stays the same and the action would change based on the proceeding words (e.g., cut the Hand, cut the Road, Cut the Job, Cut the Air supply)...The verb in 5-33 and 5-38 iare constructed as follow
= + + +
= +Both words has the Root Word
In 5-33 it means "Shall Cut"
In 5-38 it means "You Shall Cut"I will give you an example to start you on your way...I expect that you look-up the rest rather than wasting everyones time by arguing in circles when so many answers and so much information has already been given.
Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeThe 1st example is open for a choice of meaning depending on context.
The 2nd example is not open for a choice of meaning and can only be a phsyical cutting/cutting-up.Such is the difference between 533 and 538.
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Peace Belh,
It is not my opinion. It is an indisputable reality that the King James Bible or whatever Bible or parts of it you have in your hands is not the Torah. There is no agreement even amongst the Jews themselves about what the Torah is and yet you come here and arrogantly claim to have the original Torah. Unless you can specifically show the original Torah and prove that it is the original, then your opinion that the Bible or whatever parts of it is the Torah doesn't even reach the level of an educated human opinion. All your opinions on this matter are nothing but ignorance and the way you present them as the god's opinion and not your own further shows how ignorance, arrogance and lies feed off one another in the human imagination until the person has deluded themselves.
Peace,
Ayman
I challenge you and anyone in this forum to provide a Single Verse that says The Torah and Injeel are corrupted or will be...
1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by for mockery!
1856It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...If you want to disbelieve, then it is your choice.
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It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...
Where does the Injiyl say that Ibrahiym had two wives?
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Belal,
I would like to add one more thing to the theif issue Let's say a thief stole 100,000 dollars and from you and your laptop and then the thief spends the money and uses the laptop. Would you rather have his hands butchered or have your belongings back/compensation?
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Peace all,
Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeCan you show me an example from Quran where "the Verb + proceeding word" change in meaning based on the Context.
And as I told you and everyone who wants to use 12-75 as punishment for Thief, you are promoting "Slavery", because that was the Punishment in 12-75.
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I challenge you and anyone in this forum to provide a Single Verse that says The Torah and Injeel are corrupted or will be...
1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by for mockery!
1856It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...If you want to disbelieve, then it is your choice.
5677 It is an honorable Reading.
5678 In a protected Book.Does this mean all the books or just Quran?
Peace
Hope
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Belal,
I would like to add one more thing to the theif issue Let's say a thief stole 100,000 dollars and from you and your laptop and then the thief spends the money and uses the laptop. Would you rather have his hands butchered or have your belongings back/compensation?
This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.
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5677 It is an honorable Reading.
5678 In a protected Book.Does this mean all the books or just Quran?
Peace
Hope
Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
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peace guys, gals,
as i feared belH has completely lost it ...Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
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Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeThe 1st example is open for a choice of meaning depending on context.
The 2nd example is not open for a choice of meaning and can only be a phsyical cutting/cutting-up.Such is the difference between 533 and 538.
Peace all,
This is an understanding that came in mind about the use of the Verb
When I ask to butcher to "E-Qata 2 pound of Meat", He would Cut one 2 Lb piece from the whole Cow (The verb action is one action)...Then the Butcher would ask me by saying "Do you want to "Te-Qatta the piece of Meat" into small pieces (the Verb action would be repeated).
Thus, 5-33 refers to repeating the Action of Cutting in order to cut Legs and Hands, and 5-38 refers to Cut one thing (the Hand/s).
The above understanding just came in my mind--It could be right or wrong.
Peace -
This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.
I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option
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Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
Peace belH
A good question. But consider this also, why the need for Injeel and Quran if Torah was enough? Also consider this verses
277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what
they declare?
278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except
by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say
?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap
price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to
them for what they gained.What is it talking about? Who is concealing? Who are the Gentiles who only know of the book through hearsay and only conjecture? Also who is God talking about in 279?
Peace
Hope
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But consider this also, why the need for Injeel and Quran if Torah was enough?
God revealed the Injeel to expose the Wrong teachings of the Jews who wrote other books beside the Torah (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the Torah Teachings, and to change some of the Torah Laws.
However, He also taught Jesus the True meanings of the Torah.
God Revealed the Quran to expose the Wrong Teachings of the Jews and the Christians who wrote other books beside the Torah and Injeel (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the True teachings, and change some of the laws of the Torah and Injeel. However, God ordered the Prophet Mohamed to learn and believe in the Torah and Injeel.Also consider this verses
277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what
they declare?
278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except
by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say
?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap
price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to
them for what they gained.What is it talking about? Who is concealing? Who are the Gentiles who only know of the book through hearsay and only conjecture? Also who is God talking about in 279?
It is talking about everyone who write religion Books to mislead people from the True Religion Books (Quran, Torah, and Injeel). Example, The Hadith Book, and the Talmud.
The Religious Lords (e.g., Imams, ulamas and Priests) are the ones who are concealing the True Teachings of the True Books.
the Gentiles are the ones who do not know the True teachings of the Books, and they follow their trusted Religious Leaders' Teachings.
Please see above for your question about 2-79.
Peace -
I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option
Peace,
When someone steals from you and he gets caught, does the court gives you (the victim) the option to choose what would be the Punishment of the Thief (Civil Case Progressive 1993 Vs the Thief) ; or the Case becomes The Society Vs The Thief (criminal Case).
The Quran laws is the same as today's Society Laws...The Laws the Prophet had to use to govern his society...There are some Civil Laws (Humans Vs Criminal) and some other are Criminal Laws (God Vs the Criminal). -
God revealed the Injeel to expose the Wrong teachings of the Jews who wrote other books beside the Torah (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the Torah Teachings, and to change some of the Torah Laws.
However, He also taught Jesus the True meanings of the Torah.
God Revealed the Quran to expose the Wrong Teachings of the Jews and the Christians who wrote other books beside the Torah and Injeel (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the True teachings, and change some of the laws of the Torah and Injeel. However, God ordered the Prophet Mohamed to learn and believe in the Torah and Injeel.It is talking about everyone who write religion Books to mislead people from the True Religion Books (Quran, Torah, and Injeel). Example, The Hadith Book, and the Talmud.
The Religious Lords (e.g., Imams, ulamas and Priests) are the ones who are concealing the True Teachings of the True Books.
the Gentiles are the ones who do not know the True teachings of the Books, and they follow their trusted Religious Leaders' Teachings.
Please see above for your question about 2-79.
PeacePeace belH
Thank you for your explenation. I have one more question and hope I am not troubling you or taking up too much of your time and thank you for your patients. If the Injeel was delivered to teach the true Torah and then the Quran to expose the prevous books fallacies then do we have the true Injeel and Torah in circulation today? Or is the Injeel and Torah in todays circulation been corrupted?
Peace
Hope
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Peace belH
Thank you for your explenation. I have one more question and hope I am not troubling you or taking up too much of your time and thank you for your patients. If the Injeel was delivered to teach the true Torah and then the Quran to expose the prevous books fallacies then do we have the true Injeel and Torah in circulation today? Or is the Injeel and Torah in todays circulation been corrupted?
Peace
Hope
Peace,
Please feel free to ask anytime, however, understand that I'm a Human who can make mistakes (thus, your knowledge should be based on God's Teachings).I believe that the Torah and Injeel exist today as the Quran...however, the Translations and the addition of the other books have made us confused of knowing which versions of of Torah and Injeel (and the translated Quran for the non arabic speakers) are the True ones... I myself, use the Quran as a Measure to judge the existing Books; and I always put in my mind that all the teachings of our Lord should Match with each others.
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Peace,
When someone steals from you and he gets caught, does the court gives you (the victim) the option to choose what would be the Punishment of the Thief (Civil Case Progressive 1993 Vs the Thief) ; or the Case becomes The Society Vs The Thief (criminal Case).
The Quran laws is the same as today's Society Laws...The Laws the Prophet had to use to govern his society...There are some Civil Laws (Humans Vs Criminal) and some other are Criminal Laws (God Vs the Criminal).That's not what I meant/was getting at... I was just showing that God's law in 538 of cutting the resources makes more sense. Why would the victim care whether or not the theif's hands are getting cut off or not when he/she doesnt get compensation?
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Peace,
Please feel free to ask anytime, however, understand that I'm a Human who can make mistakes (thus, your knowledge should be based on God's Teachings).I believe that the Torah and Injeel exist today as the Quran...however, the Translations and the addition of the other books have made us confused of knowing which versions of of Torah and Injeel (and the translated Quran for the non arabic speakers) are the True one... I myself, use the Quran as a Measure to judge the existing Books; and I always put in my mind that all the teachings of our Lord should Match with each others.
Peace belH
Thank you. As a side note my knowledge is based on
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the
best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are
the ones who possess intelligence.Peace
Hope
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Peace belH
Thank you. As a side note my knowledge is based on
3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the
best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are
the ones who possess intelligence.Peace
Hope
peace
The Best of what is being said is "what matches what God Has Said in the Books"
That's not what I meant/was getting at... I was just showing that God's law in 538 of cutting the resources makes more sense. Why would the victim care whether or not the theif's hands are getting cut off or not when he/she doesnt get compensation?
538
The above Large Words say that the Punishment is "God's Sever Punishment" and not the choice of the "Victim".
The Case becomes God Vs the Thief (criminal Case and not a Civil)
