Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
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I would like to not discuss the Thief punishment issue further because it is off topic.
Or maybe because your arguement was beaten and you cannot counter others' arguements.
My topic is very clear, which is If free-minds.org adheres to doctrine that represents a unique understanding of Quran that is different from others, then Free-minds.org is a Sect and not a Free-Minds Forum.
The above is totally pathetic. Who are the "others" in your sentence "...difference from others" - you? Sunnis? Shias?
Please read 6116.Also, what do you mean with "free-minds.org is a sect". We are all members of this forum/site, and have different views from one another - how can we form/be a sect then?
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Also, what do you mean with "free-minds.org is a sect". We are all members of this forum/site, and have different views from one another - how can we form/be a sect then?
It is a sect because it doesn't promote any other existing sect so it must be a different sect itself. you people do not accept its a sect because you are jealous of my insightful views.
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Or maybe because your arguement was beaten and you cannot counter others' arguements.
To be beaten is what I was Hoping for so I can end this and change my understanding as I did with many other issues.
We can drag this forever if you wish...whoever, I need you to post new findings that can support your understanding.
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Peace Belh,
your opinion is just a human opinion, but this is The Creator of Heaven and Earth's Opinion
544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is a guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jewish, and the Devotees, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of the Book of God, and they were witness over. So do not be concerned with the people but be concerned with Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
544It is not my opinion. It is an indisputable reality that the King James Bible or whatever Bible or parts of it you have in your hands is not the Torah. There is no agreement even amongst the Jews themselves about what the Torah is and yet you come here and arrogantly claim to have the original Torah. Unless you can specifically show the original Torah and prove that it is the original, then your opinion that the Bible or whatever parts of it is the Torah doesn't even reach the level of an educated human opinion. All your opinions on this matter are nothing but ignorance and the way you present them as the god's opinion and not your own further shows how ignorance, arrogance and lies feed off one another in the human imagination until the person has deluded themselves.
Peace,
Ayman
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Salam,
Sorry, but I never heard this before;
So why do you then keep arguing?
the Verb meaning stays the same and the action would change based on the proceeding words (e.g., cut the Hand, cut the Road, Cut the Job, Cut the Air supply)...The verb in 5-33 and 5-38 iare constructed as follow
= + + +
= +Both words has the Root Word
In 5-33 it means "Shall Cut"
In 5-38 it means "You Shall Cut"I will give you an example to start you on your way...I expect that you look-up the rest rather than wasting everyones time by arguing in circles when so many answers and so much information has already been given.
Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeThe 1st example is open for a choice of meaning depending on context.
The 2nd example is not open for a choice of meaning and can only be a phsyical cutting/cutting-up.Such is the difference between 533 and 538.
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Peace Belh,
It is not my opinion. It is an indisputable reality that the King James Bible or whatever Bible or parts of it you have in your hands is not the Torah. There is no agreement even amongst the Jews themselves about what the Torah is and yet you come here and arrogantly claim to have the original Torah. Unless you can specifically show the original Torah and prove that it is the original, then your opinion that the Bible or whatever parts of it is the Torah doesn't even reach the level of an educated human opinion. All your opinions on this matter are nothing but ignorance and the way you present them as the god's opinion and not your own further shows how ignorance, arrogance and lies feed off one another in the human imagination until the person has deluded themselves.
Peace,
Ayman
I challenge you and anyone in this forum to provide a Single Verse that says The Torah and Injeel are corrupted or will be...
1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by for mockery!
1856It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...If you want to disbelieve, then it is your choice.
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It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...
Where does the Injiyl say that Ibrahiym had two wives?
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Belal,
I would like to add one more thing to the theif issue Let's say a thief stole 100,000 dollars and from you and your laptop and then the thief spends the money and uses the laptop. Would you rather have his hands butchered or have your belongings back/compensation?
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Peace all,
Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeCan you show me an example from Quran where "the Verb + proceeding word" change in meaning based on the Context.
And as I told you and everyone who wants to use 12-75 as punishment for Thief, you are promoting "Slavery", because that was the Punishment in 12-75.
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I challenge you and anyone in this forum to provide a Single Verse that says The Torah and Injeel are corrupted or will be...
1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by for mockery!
1856It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...If you want to disbelieve, then it is your choice.
5677 It is an honorable Reading.
5678 In a protected Book.Does this mean all the books or just Quran?
Peace
Hope
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Belal,
I would like to add one more thing to the theif issue Let's say a thief stole 100,000 dollars and from you and your laptop and then the thief spends the money and uses the laptop. Would you rather have his hands butchered or have your belongings back/compensation?
This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.
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5677 It is an honorable Reading.
5678 In a protected Book.Does this mean all the books or just Quran?
Peace
Hope
Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
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peace guys, gals,
as i feared belH has completely lost it ...Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
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Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeThe 1st example is open for a choice of meaning depending on context.
The 2nd example is not open for a choice of meaning and can only be a phsyical cutting/cutting-up.Such is the difference between 533 and 538.
Peace all,
This is an understanding that came in mind about the use of the Verb
When I ask to butcher to "E-Qata 2 pound of Meat", He would Cut one 2 Lb piece from the whole Cow (The verb action is one action)...Then the Butcher would ask me by saying "Do you want to "Te-Qatta the piece of Meat" into small pieces (the Verb action would be repeated).
Thus, 5-33 refers to repeating the Action of Cutting in order to cut Legs and Hands, and 5-38 refers to Cut one thing (the Hand/s).
The above understanding just came in my mind--It could be right or wrong.
Peace -
This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.
I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option
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Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
Peace belH
A good question. But consider this also, why the need for Injeel and Quran if Torah was enough? Also consider this verses
277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what
they declare?
278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except
by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say
?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap
price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to
them for what they gained.What is it talking about? Who is concealing? Who are the Gentiles who only know of the book through hearsay and only conjecture? Also who is God talking about in 279?
Peace
Hope
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But consider this also, why the need for Injeel and Quran if Torah was enough?
God revealed the Injeel to expose the Wrong teachings of the Jews who wrote other books beside the Torah (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the Torah Teachings, and to change some of the Torah Laws.
However, He also taught Jesus the True meanings of the Torah.
God Revealed the Quran to expose the Wrong Teachings of the Jews and the Christians who wrote other books beside the Torah and Injeel (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the True teachings, and change some of the laws of the Torah and Injeel. However, God ordered the Prophet Mohamed to learn and believe in the Torah and Injeel.Also consider this verses
277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what
they declare?
278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except
by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say
?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap
price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to
them for what they gained.What is it talking about? Who is concealing? Who are the Gentiles who only know of the book through hearsay and only conjecture? Also who is God talking about in 279?
It is talking about everyone who write religion Books to mislead people from the True Religion Books (Quran, Torah, and Injeel). Example, The Hadith Book, and the Talmud.
The Religious Lords (e.g., Imams, ulamas and Priests) are the ones who are concealing the True Teachings of the True Books.
the Gentiles are the ones who do not know the True teachings of the Books, and they follow their trusted Religious Leaders' Teachings.
Please see above for your question about 2-79.
Peace -
I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option
Peace,
When someone steals from you and he gets caught, does the court gives you (the victim) the option to choose what would be the Punishment of the Thief (Civil Case Progressive 1993 Vs the Thief) ; or the Case becomes The Society Vs The Thief (criminal Case).
The Quran laws is the same as today's Society Laws...The Laws the Prophet had to use to govern his society...There are some Civil Laws (Humans Vs Criminal) and some other are Criminal Laws (God Vs the Criminal). -
God revealed the Injeel to expose the Wrong teachings of the Jews who wrote other books beside the Torah (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the Torah Teachings, and to change some of the Torah Laws.
However, He also taught Jesus the True meanings of the Torah.
God Revealed the Quran to expose the Wrong Teachings of the Jews and the Christians who wrote other books beside the Torah and Injeel (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the True teachings, and change some of the laws of the Torah and Injeel. However, God ordered the Prophet Mohamed to learn and believe in the Torah and Injeel.It is talking about everyone who write religion Books to mislead people from the True Religion Books (Quran, Torah, and Injeel). Example, The Hadith Book, and the Talmud.
The Religious Lords (e.g., Imams, ulamas and Priests) are the ones who are concealing the True Teachings of the True Books.
the Gentiles are the ones who do not know the True teachings of the Books, and they follow their trusted Religious Leaders' Teachings.
Please see above for your question about 2-79.
PeacePeace belH
Thank you for your explenation. I have one more question and hope I am not troubling you or taking up too much of your time and thank you for your patients. If the Injeel was delivered to teach the true Torah and then the Quran to expose the prevous books fallacies then do we have the true Injeel and Torah in circulation today? Or is the Injeel and Torah in todays circulation been corrupted?
Peace
Hope
