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  4. Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.

Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • B Offline
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    belH
    wrote on last edited by
    #442

    Peace all,

    Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
    Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the tree

    Can you show me an example from Quran where "the Verb + proceeding word" change in meaning based on the Context.

    And as I told you and everyone who wants to use 12-75 as punishment for Thief, you are promoting "Slavery", because that was the Punishment in 12-75.

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    • H Offline
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      hope4
      wrote on last edited by
      #443

      I challenge you and anyone in this forum to provide a Single Verse that says The Torah and Injeel are corrupted or will be...

      1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by for mockery!
      1856

      It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...If you want to disbelieve, then it is your choice.

      5677 It is an honorable Reading.
      5678 In a protected Book.

      Does this mean all the books or just Quran?

      Peace

      Hope

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      • B Offline
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        belH
        wrote on last edited by
        #444

        Belal,

        I would like to add one more thing to the theif issue Let's say a thief stole 100,000 dollars and from you and your laptop and then the thief spends the money and uses the laptop. Would you rather have his hands butchered or have your belongings back/compensation?

        This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.

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        • B Offline
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          belH
          wrote on last edited by
          #445

          5677 It is an honorable Reading.
          5678 In a protected Book.

          Does this mean all the books or just Quran?

          Peace

          Hope

          Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?

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            noble
            wrote on last edited by
            #446

            peace guys, gals,
            as i feared belH has completely lost it ...

            Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?

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            • B Offline
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              belH
              wrote on last edited by
              #447

              Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
              Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the tree

              The 1st example is open for a choice of meaning depending on context.
              The 2nd example is not open for a choice of meaning and can only be a phsyical cutting/cutting-up.

              Such is the difference between 533 and 538.

              Peace all,

              This is an understanding that came in mind about the use of the Verb

              When I ask to butcher to "E-Qata 2 pound of Meat", He would Cut one 2 Lb piece from the whole Cow (The verb action is one action)...Then the Butcher would ask me by saying "Do you want to "Te-Qatta the piece of Meat" into small pieces (the Verb action would be repeated).

              Thus, 5-33 refers to repeating the Action of Cutting in order to cut Legs and Hands, and 5-38 refers to Cut one thing (the Hand/s).

              The above understanding just came in my mind--It could be right or wrong.
              Peace

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              • E Offline
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                No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                wrote on last edited by
                #448

                This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.

                I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option

                I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                • B Offline
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                  belH
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #449

                  peace guys, gals,
                  as i feared belH has completely lost it ...

                  can you help me to find my way by explaining where I made a mistake?

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                  • H Offline
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                    hope4
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #450

                    Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?

                    Peace belH

                    A good question. But consider this also, why the need for Injeel and Quran if Torah was enough? Also consider this verses

                    277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what
                    they declare?
                    278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except
                    by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
                    279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say
                    ?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap
                    price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to
                    them for what they gained.

                    What is it talking about? Who is concealing? Who are the Gentiles who only know of the book through hearsay and only conjecture? Also who is God talking about in 279?

                    Peace

                    Hope

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                    • B Offline
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                      belH
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #451

                      But consider this also, why the need for Injeel and Quran if Torah was enough?

                      God revealed the Injeel to expose the Wrong teachings of the Jews who wrote other books beside the Torah (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the Torah Teachings, and to change some of the Torah Laws.
                      However, He also taught Jesus the True meanings of the Torah.
                      God Revealed the Quran to expose the Wrong Teachings of the Jews and the Christians who wrote other books beside the Torah and Injeel (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the True teachings, and change some of the laws of the Torah and Injeel. However, God ordered the Prophet Mohamed to learn and believe in the Torah and Injeel.

                      Also consider this verses

                      277 Do they not know that God knows what they conceal and what
                      they declare?
                      278 And among them are Gentiles who do not know the Book except
                      by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
                      279 So woe to those who write the Book with their hands then say
                      ?This is from God,? so that they can purchase with it a cheap
                      price! Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to
                      them for what they gained.

                      What is it talking about? Who is concealing? Who are the Gentiles who only know of the book through hearsay and only conjecture? Also who is God talking about in 279?

                      It is talking about everyone who write religion Books to mislead people from the True Religion Books (Quran, Torah, and Injeel). Example, The Hadith Book, and the Talmud.

                      The Religious Lords (e.g., Imams, ulamas and Priests) are the ones who are concealing the True Teachings of the True Books.

                      the Gentiles are the ones who do not know the True teachings of the Books, and they follow their trusted Religious Leaders' Teachings.

                      Please see above for your question about 2-79.
                      Peace

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                      • B Offline
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                        belH
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #452

                        I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option

                        Peace,

                        When someone steals from you and he gets caught, does the court gives you (the victim) the option to choose what would be the Punishment of the Thief (Civil Case Progressive 1993 Vs the Thief) ; or the Case becomes The Society Vs The Thief (criminal Case).
                        The Quran laws is the same as today's Society Laws...The Laws the Prophet had to use to govern his society...There are some Civil Laws (Humans Vs Criminal) and some other are Criminal Laws (God Vs the Criminal).

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                        • H Offline
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                          hope4
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #453

                          God revealed the Injeel to expose the Wrong teachings of the Jews who wrote other books beside the Torah (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the Torah Teachings, and to change some of the Torah Laws.
                          However, He also taught Jesus the True meanings of the Torah.
                          God Revealed the Quran to expose the Wrong Teachings of the Jews and the Christians who wrote other books beside the Torah and Injeel (2-79) to mislead and corrupt the True teachings, and change some of the laws of the Torah and Injeel. However, God ordered the Prophet Mohamed to learn and believe in the Torah and Injeel.

                          It is talking about everyone who write religion Books to mislead people from the True Religion Books (Quran, Torah, and Injeel). Example, The Hadith Book, and the Talmud.

                          The Religious Lords (e.g., Imams, ulamas and Priests) are the ones who are concealing the True Teachings of the True Books.

                          the Gentiles are the ones who do not know the True teachings of the Books, and they follow their trusted Religious Leaders' Teachings.

                          Please see above for your question about 2-79.
                          Peace

                          Peace belH

                          Thank you for your explenation. I have one more question and hope I am not troubling you or taking up too much of your time and thank you for your patients. If the Injeel was delivered to teach the true Torah and then the Quran to expose the prevous books fallacies then do we have the true Injeel and Torah in circulation today? Or is the Injeel and Torah in todays circulation been corrupted?

                          Peace

                          Hope

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                          • B Offline
                            B Offline
                            belH
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #454

                            Peace belH

                            Thank you for your explenation. I have one more question and hope I am not troubling you or taking up too much of your time and thank you for your patients. If the Injeel was delivered to teach the true Torah and then the Quran to expose the prevous books fallacies then do we have the true Injeel and Torah in circulation today? Or is the Injeel and Torah in todays circulation been corrupted?

                            Peace

                            Hope

                            Peace,
                            Please feel free to ask anytime, however, understand that I'm a Human who can make mistakes (thus, your knowledge should be based on God's Teachings).

                            I believe that the Torah and Injeel exist today as the Quran...however, the Translations and the addition of the other books have made us confused of knowing which versions of of Torah and Injeel (and the translated Quran for the non arabic speakers) are the True ones... I myself, use the Quran as a Measure to judge the existing Books; and I always put in my mind that all the teachings of our Lord should Match with each others.

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                            • E Offline
                              E Offline
                              No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #455

                              Peace,

                              When someone steals from you and he gets caught, does the court gives you (the victim) the option to choose what would be the Punishment of the Thief (Civil Case Progressive 1993 Vs the Thief) ; or the Case becomes The Society Vs The Thief (criminal Case).
                              The Quran laws is the same as today's Society Laws...The Laws the Prophet had to use to govern his society...There are some Civil Laws (Humans Vs Criminal) and some other are Criminal Laws (God Vs the Criminal).

                              That's not what I meant/was getting at... I was just showing that God's law in 538 of cutting the resources makes more sense. Why would the victim care whether or not the theif's hands are getting cut off or not when he/she doesnt get compensation?

                              I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                              • H Offline
                                H Offline
                                hope4
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #456

                                Peace,
                                Please feel free to ask anytime, however, understand that I'm a Human who can make mistakes (thus, your knowledge should be based on God's Teachings).

                                I believe that the Torah and Injeel exist today as the Quran...however, the Translations and the addition of the other books have made us confused of knowing which versions of of Torah and Injeel (and the translated Quran for the non arabic speakers) are the True one... I myself, use the Quran as a Measure to judge the existing Books; and I always put in my mind that all the teachings of our Lord should Match with each others.

                                Peace belH

                                Thank you. As a side note my knowledge is based on

                                3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the
                                best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are
                                the ones who possess intelligence.

                                Peace

                                Hope

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                                • B Offline
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                                  belH
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #457

                                  Peace belH

                                  Thank you. As a side note my knowledge is based on

                                  3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the
                                  best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are
                                  the ones who possess intelligence.

                                  Peace

                                  Hope

                                  peace

                                  The Best of what is being said is "what matches what God Has Said in the Books"

                                  That's not what I meant/was getting at... I was just showing that God's law in 538 of cutting the resources makes more sense. Why would the victim care whether or not the theif's hands are getting cut off or not when he/she doesnt get compensation?

                                  538

                                  The above Large Words say that the Punishment is "God's Sever Punishment" and not the choice of the "Victim".

                                  The Case becomes God Vs the Thief (criminal Case and not a Civil)

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                                  • E Offline
                                    E Offline
                                    No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #458

                                    The above Large Words say that the Punishment is "God's Sever Punishment" and not the choice of the "Victim".

                                    The Case becomes God Vs the Thief (criminal Case and not a Civil)

                                    You totally missed my point... giveup

                                    I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                                    • H Offline
                                      H Offline
                                      hope4
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #459

                                      peace

                                      The Best of what is being said is "what matches what God Has Said in the Books"

                                      Exactly peace

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                                      • B Offline
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                                        belH
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #460

                                        You totally missed my point... giveup

                                        I do not think so, however, What is your point?

                                        I believe Your point was Is the Punishment of the Thief, in 5-38, to compensate for the Victim's suffering or not...And I told you it is not, rather, it is God's revenge against those who used their God giving Hands to Corrupt the Society instead of Building.

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                                          noble
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #461

                                          belH, peace
                                          you do not look like you need help...
                                          just a stubborn religious freak that's all...

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