Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.
-
242 (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes...
why in 538 it doesn't say cut 1or 2 hands of each of them?
Is it really painful?
-
salaam Abdun Nur
I do not think belH will understand what you mean.
or more precisely, he will feign not to understand it...
i speculate, but i guess him and guest are just here to glean info for you know who...
otherwise they are too stupid to be real...
or maybe i am too demanding and this is what we will keep on getting as samples from past brain washed
sunnis,
they are badly damaged insofar as thinking independently is concerned, but modulated with an ambiguity and
a fear to challenge core global issues...
so nah, details are easier for them to handle, talking to them about systemic problems is just a waste of breath,
they cannot think globally, and besides they live in the past anyways (in fact a manufactured version of the past)...Salaam BelH,
you say a thief will not work, based on what? Thieves are often very industrious, take the modern bankers, or the government, or the legal system, they work extremely hard to steal as much as possible, would you hack off limbs in their case?
Thieves that are on drugs, also labour to gain their next fix, they will do whatever it takes.
When the establishment in control of the people, whether desired or not, exist as a criminal cabal, it is not surprising to see the lowest dregs of the social order copying the elite of society, who steal every penny they can from those around them.
I do not wish to hack off limbs, as you, I do not even wish to imprison them.
They should be judge on their actions, if for example those in the Government of the oligarchy, murder a million Iraqis, they should be executed as mass murderer, if they steal from those around them, they should have their assets removed to cover the theft, and if possible labour to repay any remainder.
If the sovereign powers were removed, the dregs of society would be removed with them, as they are a symptom of the disease.
The vast majority of the legal system works in the administration of drug abuse, the drugs are made and distributed by the sovereign powers, almost entirely, take Afghanistan, before the oligarchy arrived, there was no drug abuse, or drug production in that country, now it is the world leader in drug production, and drug abuse has become widespread.
-
Peace,
Which is more harsher, Putting him in Jail for 150 years or Cutting his hands? In other words, which punishment would Medoff choose?
Peace belH
Ok now he has a choice. I can not speak on his behalf but I am sure he wont be jailed for 150 years. If he chose his hand to be cut off some may say look his out after paying a cheap prize for his crime. Hence he still has his liberty. If he goes to jail for a lengthy time people may say look our tax money is going on him. He is having a good time in jail. Its a hard one to judge. Now consider this. How can you hurt or punish a person who is rich? I would say cut from his resources, a life change will be harsh for him.
Peace
Hope
-
Peace all,
I would like to not discuss the Thief punishment issue further because it is off topic. My topic is very clear, which is If free-minds.org adheres to doctrine that represents a unique understanding of Quran that is different from others, then Free-minds.org is a Sect and not a Free-Minds Forum.
Moreover, Free-minds.org should translate the Quran "word by word" without feeding their own understanding into the translation, which would restricted the freedom of others to have their own understanding.Please always remember that because you were not a victim of a Criminal act before, you have no clue of the Suffering of those who were victims...the suffering that drove a Nation to go to wars with two countries...the suffering of a victims whom their life saving were stolen by a greedy rich man.
Because God knows the suffering of these victims, He Declared saver punishments for these criminals in 5-33 (for those who corrupt the societies by abusing the religion to make people kill each others in the name of God) and 5-38 (for those who inflect suffering on their victims by taking away their belongings)...The saver Punishment is a " "Let Those who know Arabic translate the above three words.
Hopefully now we can move to discuss the other three points that I disagree with free-minds.org understandings
In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the mans guardianship (43), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Muta)...
n Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (2227-2, Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...
In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (1712, 936), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time
Or we can just discuss the Main Topic Issue (I prefer this choice) Should Free-minds.org adhere to doctrine (a unique understanding of the Quran) or not.
Peace
-
belH salaam,
and why? what is the purpose of discussing these?
the conclusion will be the same, you will be right and free-minds will be wrong... so?
at least free-minds they wrote their intro page using a process of shura, you are just one individual,
and not the first one even... millions disagree, so?
free-minds encourage their members to learn arabic, even there is a copy of the Quran in Arabic on the site,
and articles and advice to access books, and many points of view, that cannot be a sect, you need
to understand first what a sect really means before using lightly that word.
Even sunnis they have different groups within them some worse than others, and some more sectists than others...
belH, razor sharpen your language... -
I would like to not discuss the Thief punishment issue further because it is off topic.
Or maybe because your arguement was beaten and you cannot counter others' arguements.
My topic is very clear, which is If free-minds.org adheres to doctrine that represents a unique understanding of Quran that is different from others, then Free-minds.org is a Sect and not a Free-Minds Forum.
The above is totally pathetic. Who are the "others" in your sentence "...difference from others" - you? Sunnis? Shias?
Please read 6116.Also, what do you mean with "free-minds.org is a sect". We are all members of this forum/site, and have different views from one another - how can we form/be a sect then?
-
Also, what do you mean with "free-minds.org is a sect". We are all members of this forum/site, and have different views from one another - how can we form/be a sect then?
It is a sect because it doesn't promote any other existing sect so it must be a different sect itself. you people do not accept its a sect because you are jealous of my insightful views.
-
Or maybe because your arguement was beaten and you cannot counter others' arguements.
To be beaten is what I was Hoping for so I can end this and change my understanding as I did with many other issues.
We can drag this forever if you wish...whoever, I need you to post new findings that can support your understanding.
-
Peace Belh,
your opinion is just a human opinion, but this is The Creator of Heaven and Earth's Opinion
544 We have sent down the Torah, in it is a guidance and a light; the prophets who have submitted judged with it for those who are Jewish, and the Devotees, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of the Book of God, and they were witness over. So do not be concerned with the people but be concerned with Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
544It is not my opinion. It is an indisputable reality that the King James Bible or whatever Bible or parts of it you have in your hands is not the Torah. There is no agreement even amongst the Jews themselves about what the Torah is and yet you come here and arrogantly claim to have the original Torah. Unless you can specifically show the original Torah and prove that it is the original, then your opinion that the Bible or whatever parts of it is the Torah doesn't even reach the level of an educated human opinion. All your opinions on this matter are nothing but ignorance and the way you present them as the god's opinion and not your own further shows how ignorance, arrogance and lies feed off one another in the human imagination until the person has deluded themselves.
Peace,
Ayman
-
Salam,
Sorry, but I never heard this before;
So why do you then keep arguing?
the Verb meaning stays the same and the action would change based on the proceeding words (e.g., cut the Hand, cut the Road, Cut the Job, Cut the Air supply)...The verb in 5-33 and 5-38 iare constructed as follow
= + + +
= +Both words has the Root Word
In 5-33 it means "Shall Cut"
In 5-38 it means "You Shall Cut"I will give you an example to start you on your way...I expect that you look-up the rest rather than wasting everyones time by arguing in circles when so many answers and so much information has already been given.
Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeThe 1st example is open for a choice of meaning depending on context.
The 2nd example is not open for a choice of meaning and can only be a phsyical cutting/cutting-up.Such is the difference between 533 and 538.
-
Peace Belh,
It is not my opinion. It is an indisputable reality that the King James Bible or whatever Bible or parts of it you have in your hands is not the Torah. There is no agreement even amongst the Jews themselves about what the Torah is and yet you come here and arrogantly claim to have the original Torah. Unless you can specifically show the original Torah and prove that it is the original, then your opinion that the Bible or whatever parts of it is the Torah doesn't even reach the level of an educated human opinion. All your opinions on this matter are nothing but ignorance and the way you present them as the god's opinion and not your own further shows how ignorance, arrogance and lies feed off one another in the human imagination until the person has deluded themselves.
Peace,
Ayman
I challenge you and anyone in this forum to provide a Single Verse that says The Torah and Injeel are corrupted or will be...
1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by for mockery!
1856It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...If you want to disbelieve, then it is your choice.
-
It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...
Where does the Injiyl say that Ibrahiym had two wives?
-
Belal,
I would like to add one more thing to the theif issue Let's say a thief stole 100,000 dollars and from you and your laptop and then the thief spends the money and uses the laptop. Would you rather have his hands butchered or have your belongings back/compensation?
-
Peace all,
Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeCan you show me an example from Quran where "the Verb + proceeding word" change in meaning based on the Context.
And as I told you and everyone who wants to use 12-75 as punishment for Thief, you are promoting "Slavery", because that was the Punishment in 12-75.
-
I challenge you and anyone in this forum to provide a Single Verse that says The Torah and Injeel are corrupted or will be...
1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by for mockery!
1856It is indisputable fact, in Torah and Injeel, that Abraham had two wives...If you want to disbelieve, then it is your choice.
5677 It is an honorable Reading.
5678 In a protected Book.Does this mean all the books or just Quran?
Peace
Hope
-
Belal,
I would like to add one more thing to the theif issue Let's say a thief stole 100,000 dollars and from you and your laptop and then the thief spends the money and uses the laptop. Would you rather have his hands butchered or have your belongings back/compensation?
This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.
-
5677 It is an honorable Reading.
5678 In a protected Book.Does this mean all the books or just Quran?
Peace
Hope
Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
-
peace guys, gals,
as i feared belH has completely lost it ...Why God would protect Quran and abandon the Torah and Injeel? Why God orderes us to believe in Books that had the potential to be Corrupted? If God Knew that the Torah and Injeel will be Corrupted, why He did not worn us in the Quran, and instead, He Told Us to believe in?
-
Qata alshajara = he cut/severed the tree
Qatta alshajara = he cut-up the treeThe 1st example is open for a choice of meaning depending on context.
The 2nd example is not open for a choice of meaning and can only be a phsyical cutting/cutting-up.Such is the difference between 533 and 538.
Peace all,
This is an understanding that came in mind about the use of the Verb
When I ask to butcher to "E-Qata 2 pound of Meat", He would Cut one 2 Lb piece from the whole Cow (The verb action is one action)...Then the Butcher would ask me by saying "Do you want to "Te-Qatta the piece of Meat" into small pieces (the Verb action would be repeated).
Thus, 5-33 refers to repeating the Action of Cutting in order to cut Legs and Hands, and 5-38 refers to Cut one thing (the Hand/s).
The above understanding just came in my mind--It could be right or wrong.
Peace -
This discussion is not about My Choice or yours.
I see... In other words, cutting from the resources is the better option
