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  4. Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.

Free-Minds.org is another Sect...like Suni and Shia Sects.

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
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  • H Offline
    H Offline
    herbman
    wrote on last edited by
    #508

    Peace all, Peace BelH,

    to BelH,

    what about if the muslim "judge" applying 538 make a mistake?

    regards

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    • G Offline
      G Offline
      guest
      wrote on last edited by
      #509

      Peace,

      This is getting ridiculous - since when have people become objects that can be stolen like common goods!

      You have 2 crimes here

      1. Kidnapping
      2. Rape

      For the 1st crime, the punishment is equivalence - so a prison term will suffice (16126)
      For the 2nd crime, the punishment is prison or to be punished severely (1225)

      Peace,

      OK, when someone is kidnapped and forcefully removed one of his kidneys and sold it to rich people for profit and transplant in another person. This is stealing human organs. In this case, what is your punishment?

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      • E Offline
        E Offline
        No longer a Sunna-rejecter
        wrote on last edited by
        #510

        Peace,

        OK, when someone is kidnapped and forcefully removed one of his kidneys and sold it to rich people for profit and transplant in another person. This is stealing human organs. In this case, what is your punishment?

        Are you sure that everything is alright with you?

        Make a coffee for yourself, sit down and relax - that's what you need the most right now, instead of coming up with these crazy theft theories!

        I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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        • N Offline
          N Offline
          noble
          wrote on last edited by
          #511

          thanks at least you made me laugh this time
          i was quite depressed
          your comment is a bit like those spoof horror movies ;D
          but still you do need psychiatric help you know that, lithium maybe? an anti-psychotic too...
          get well soon

          Peace,

          OK, when someone is kidnapped and forcefully removed one of his kidneys and sold it to rich people for profit and transplant in another person. This is stealing human organs. In this case, what is your punishment?

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          • G Offline
            G Offline
            guest
            wrote on last edited by
            #512

            Make a coffee for yourself, sit down and relax - that's what you need the most right now, instead of coming up with these crazy theft theories!

            I will even make the scenario more interesting for you. The thief cuts off the kidnapped persons hands off (two of them). Then what do you do to this thief?

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            • G Offline
              G Offline
              guest
              wrote on last edited by
              #513

              thanks at least you made me laugh this time
              i was quite depressed
              your comment is a bit like those spoof horror movies ;D
              but still you do need psychiatric help you know that, lithium maybe? an anti-psychotic too...
              get well soon

              Peace professor Nabster,

              Human organ stealing is going on in the third world countries. This is not just a horror movies anymore.

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              • N Offline
                N Offline
                noble
                wrote on last edited by
                #514

                rotfl rotfl rotfl
                dude are you into gory stuff or what...
                laugh
                here in the UK some feral youth will stab you just because you look at them the "wrong" way...
                i am for the return of capital punishment, but you know why there is no capital punishment in so many
                western countries now ...
                let us see if you are that bright Mr guest...

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                • E Offline
                  E Offline
                  No longer a Sunna-rejecter
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #515

                  I will even make the scenario more interesting for you. The thief cuts off the kidnapped persons hands off (two of them). Then what do you do to this thief?

                  nope I recommend you to get some help - I'm worried about you.

                  Anyways, the crime then becomes theft, kidnapping and mayhem, hence we cannot apply the punishment described in 538.

                  I am no longer a Sunna-rejecter. See 4:59-65, 62:2-4, 3:31, 4:156, 7:157 Messenger teaches and is to be followed and obeyed. Examples of revelation received which is not in the Qur'an: 3:123-126, 33:37, 2:187, 66:3, 62:9.

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                  • N Offline
                    N Offline
                    noble
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #516

                    and grievous bodily harm (uk term)
                    i don't think taking away someone's organs can be considered as theft though...

                    nope I recommend you to get some help - I'm worried about you.

                    Anyways, the crime then becomes theft, kidnapping and mayhem, hence we cannot apply the punishment described in 538.

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                    • H Offline
                      H Offline
                      herbman
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #517

                      I will even make the scenario more interesting for you. The thief cuts off the kidnapped persons hands off (two of them). Then what do you do to this thief?

                      I would say an eye for an eye, and teeth for teeth rotfl

                      Actually it apply perfectly to the example you mentioned )

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                      • N Offline
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                        noble
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #518

                        yep we are in agreement, qasas it is, an eye for an eye, so hands cut off, and kidney given back or taken off + compensation for pain inflicted (but all this still has nothing to do with theft btw)...
                        538 in my understanding is theft of inanimate objects... the taking of hostages is dealt elsewhere I would have thought...

                        I would say an eye for an eye, and teeth for teeth rotfl

                        Actually it apply perfectly to the example you mentioned )

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                        • G Offline
                          G Offline
                          guest
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #519

                          If I would go by the Quran under a muslim state, I would cut from his resources, since I cannot cut his three or more hands.

                          Please define ?his resources?. And don?t forget the option when the thief has no other resource except his mind and body. Now, don?t let me wait for the definition too long. As for the ?three or more hands?, that is your fabrication or your adaption of someone else?s fabrication.

                          The way you talk about thiefs is pretty harsh. Judging by your mindset it is not unusual to see you wanting to chop off his hands. God, on the other hand, is forgiving and compassionate

                          You forgot the most important attributes of the God JUSTICE (best)

                          539 Whoever repents after his wrongdoing, and reforms, then God will accept his repentance. God is Forgiving, Compassionate.

                          I have already explained 539; perhaps you don?t want to take heed.
                          For the disbeliever humiliation in this world and far worst waits for them in the hereafter. If they (thief) reform after the hands has been cut off then they don?t suffer the far worst in the hereafter.

                          BTW, your question "would you like to be his friend?" is irrelevant, and shows that you should never think of becoming a judge. It also shows that you go by your feelings, rather than the law and case at hand.

                          Likewise you should not write about the God. You are a misleader.

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                          • G Offline
                            G Offline
                            guest
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #520

                            rotfl rotfl rotfl
                            dude are you into gory stuff or what...
                            laugh
                            here in the UK some feral youth will stab you just because you look at them the "wrong" way...
                            i am for the return of capital punishment, but you know why there is no capital punishment in so many
                            western countries now ...
                            let us see if you are that bright Mr guest...

                            Because they are disbeliever like you and don't follow the Quran.

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                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              belH
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #521

                              Peace all, Peace BelH,

                              to BelH,

                              what about if the muslim "judge" applying 538 make a mistake?

                              regards

                              Peace,

                              It shall be no Doubt when convicting anyone with a Crime...This is God's Rule.

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                              • G Offline
                                G Offline
                                guest
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #522

                                nope I recommend you to get some help - I'm worried about you.

                                Anyways, the crime then becomes theft, kidnapping and mayhem, hence we cannot apply the punishment described in 538.

                                In other words, your theory does not hold up for this theft case.

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                                • N Offline
                                  N Offline
                                  nimnimak_11
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #523

                                  Peace,

                                  The answer is very simple. You use your heart, reason and logic which equates to the innermost thought to find God and the Quran. After that you ?hear and obey?. Your dilemma is you haven?t fully accepted the God (Allah) and the Quran yet.

                                  peace

                                  hmm

                                  I'm not sure i understand you.
                                  Are you saying that those faculties are only there to reach God and the Quran and then afterwards "hear and obey"?
                                  Are you suggesting that after that there is no use for them?

                                  I think your dilema is that you havn't put your full trust in God (Your designer and creator) yet.

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                                  • G Offline
                                    G Offline
                                    guest
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #524

                                    538 in my understanding is theft of inanimate objects... the taking of hostages is dealt elsewhere I would have thought...

                                    Then stealing expensive live plants from a store is NOT STEALING. This is immature thinking.

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                                    • N Offline
                                      N Offline
                                      nimnimak_11
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #525

                                      peace

                                      Guest

                                      And what will you call them after you find them to be true thieves?

                                      I think it would be more righteous and better in the sight of God to just call them a "theif"

                                      Can i just ask what do you mean by true theif?

                                      and also

                                      A man in a third world country steals some fruit or money from a store. what should be his punishment?

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                                      • N Offline
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                                        noble
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #526

                                        Really, a cursed individual like you calling me a disbeliever, i am really touched...
                                        So where are you, venting your fury in front of a computer screen...
                                        What participation to this ummah have you brought or are you bringing that is
                                        making any iota of difference if you are as good as you seem to imply, and if your innermost
                                        thoughts are giving you the infallible answers that centuries of gloom the Scholars of Islam
                                        have not been able to resolve.
                                        Tell me guest, what is your solution to lift the curse of Allah on the Ummah for which now
                                        "musibataha fidiniha"...
                                        And since you are so prestigious and knowledgeable why are you hiding behind the most
                                        vulgar of nicks "guest" not even wanting to show an inkling of your id?
                                        Who are you scared of?
                                        I personally have been condemned to death by some jihadi groups, members idiots like you who think
                                        they know it all and who are ready to squander their lives for the sake of Satan.
                                        You are no better, in fact you are worse, because you are a coward who hides behind a nick and
                                        snipes with stupid words in forums with a cup of tea at his side.
                                        You are not here to teach, you are not here to learn, you just come and aggravate peeps not even with
                                        proper muslim manners...
                                        You, belH, and the likes of you make me sick really...
                                        If for you this is jihad, let me give you glad tidings that, Allah willing, it is not accepted, and is turned as torment
                                        against you instead of reward, because you are here for point scoring, not to help and teach... yes, this is what my innermost thoughts are telling me...
                                        Begone with you...
                                        Of course the mods are right to warn you of a permanent ban, you behave like a pest...

                                        Because they are disbeliever like you and don't follow the Quran.

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                                        • R Offline
                                          R Offline
                                          Rev_John
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #527

                                          Because they are disbeliever like you and don't follow the Quran.

                                          So everyone in the UK and the west are "nonbelievers"? rotfl That is a broad statement to make. I hope you can substantiate it.

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