Hello Folks, Fawzia here! I was a Quranist for 10 months.
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thanks, now give me proof that the Hafs variant is correct to the last letter.
Once again, its simple. Quran pegs its 'protectedness' or dhikr or eminent one. 'Hafs' is the eminent one and therefore it is the subject to test. If you find it a mistake with it, bring it forward.
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does that mean that the book my father's friend bought isn't real? Are you familiar that you need only one counterexample to disprove a rule? in this case, the rule being that the hafs version is the only correct one?
What your father friend brough, if you're telling the truth, is NOT the Quran familiar to the overwhelming majority. Therefore, it is NOT dhikr.
Like I said, if you believe the 'one counter example' theory, then your God is a real dumb God because all it takes is a printer and that's it, his protection goes down the flusher. Not worth worshipping.
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where does it say that in the Quran?
15/9 and 41/42 talks about adh-dhikr and its protectedness. 80/11-16 is also about adh-dhikr and speaks of the term 'marfu3ah' or 'raised high' which is once again, what you call the 'hafs' version.
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What your father friend brough, if you're telling the truth, is NOT the Quran familiar to the overwhelming majority. Therefore, it is NOT dhikr.
Like I said, if you believe the 'one counter example' theory, then your God is a real dumb God because all it takes is a printer and that's it, his protection goes down the flusher. Not worth worshipping.
majority rules? it's not a Quran someone just printed, but by an established printing house, and it's not just one, but one of many. your argument about popularity does not make much sense, considering how old both variants are
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15/9 and 41/42 talks about adh-dhikr and its protectedness. 80/11-16 is also about adh-dhikr and speaks of the term 'marfu3ah' or 'raised high' which is once again, what you call the 'hafs' version.
explain, not everyone here studies the Quran in Arabic, and translations often do not include multiple meanings of the Arabic words. Make things easier for everyone, ok?
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majority rules? it's not a Quran someone just printed, but by an established printing house, and it's not just one, but one of many. your argument about popularity does not make much sense, considering how old both variants are
Yeah, thats the point, both are OLD. Hafs and warsh but warsh can NEVER overtake hafs. It just simply cannot be done because of the Muslim's iconisation of the Quran. They have abandoned its teachings but they practically worship the text.
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Yeah, thats the point, both are OLD. Hafs and warsh but warsh can NEVER overtake hafs.
It just simply cannot be done because of the Muslim's iconisation of the Quran. They have abandoned its teachings but they practically worship the text.
huh? those two statements don't seem to connect with each other. since when has one overtaking another been a point? it's just opinion
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explain, not everyone here studies the Quran in Arabic, and translations often do not include multiple meanings of the Arabic words. Make things easier for everyone, ok?
Fair enough
We have, without doubt, sent down Adh-dhikr ; and We will assuredly guard it (15/9)
Those who reject Adh-dhikr when it comes to them while indeed it is an honoured book. No falsehood can approach it from before or behind it It is sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all Praise (41/41-42)
80/11-16
By no means (should it be so)! For it is indeed a Message of instruction Therefore let whoso will, keep it in remembrance. It is) in pages held (greatly) in honour, Raised high and purified, by the capacities of travellers-Honourable and Pious and Just.
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Re Hello Folks, Fawzia here! I was a Quranist for 10 months.
follow the rest of discussion here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599050.msg229938#msg229938
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huh? those two statements don't seem to connect with each other. since when has one overtaking another been a point? it's just opinion
Warsh remains a minority and can never overtake Hafs as the dominant edition. Of course its opinion but its based on my reading of Quran and what IT wants its reader to do. You instead took the 'which quran' guy as your evidence. So you stick with that and have fun...
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Warsh remains a minority and can never overtake Hafs as the dominant edition. Of course its opinion but its based on my reading of Quran and what IT wants its reader to do. You instead took the 'which quran' guy as your evidence. So you stick with that and have fun...
it's not a question of dominance, but authenticity. I am not saying that Hafs is fake, I am saying that both may be acceptable. You have rejected the Warsh variant based on your opinion only.
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it's not a question of dominance, but authenticity. I am not saying that Hafs is fake, I am saying that both may be acceptable. You have rejected the Warsh variant based on your opinion only.
you base your rejection on other people's opinion?
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Those who reject Adh-dhikr when it comes to them while indeed it is an honoured book. No falsehood can approach it from before or behind it It is sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all Praise (41/41-42)
80/11-16
By no means (should it be so)! For it is indeed a Message of instruction Therefore let whoso will, keep it in remembrance. It is) in pages held (greatly) in honour, Raised high and purified, by the capacities of travellers-Honourable and Pious and Just.
I don't see how small transcription errors indicate falsehood. Regardless of whether I wrote
I m going out
OR
I am goin out
They both mean "I am going out"
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it's not a question of dominance, but authenticity. I am not saying that Hafs is fake, I am saying that both may be acceptable. You have rejected the Warsh variant based on your opinion only.
That's why the Quran says adh-DHIKR in singular and not dhukoor or adhkaar in plural. There can only ONE eminent one, not two, not seven. Again, sure its my opinion but my opinion is based on the Quran, not on some fake orientalist assumptions and hadith, unlike some people.
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I haven't rejected anything, other than the hadiths, but that is based on the Quran
False, you accepted Warsh because SUNNIS accept Warsh and sunnis accept Warsh because of 7 ahruuf hadith. Do the math...
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You're comparing your language use with God's use? God uses VERY precise language to describe the ideology. One word out of place and the whole system breaks down. It's cool tho, you study what you like.
I don't see how small transcription errors indicate falsehood. Regardless of whether I wrote
I m going out
OR
I am goin out
They both mean "I am going out"
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False, you accepted Warsh because SUNNIS accept Warsh and sunnis accept Warsh because of 7 ahruuf hadith. Do the math...
Where did the Warsh variant come from?
When did it appear?
How old is the oldest Quran, and why does it have differences that match neither the present Hafs nor the present Warsh variants?
Has there been some variation over time?