Quran vs quranists
-
Yes, I didn't deny this and I've explained that this kind of wisdom is differente from the others that came in the verses that spoke about the prophet and came after the book .
if it was the normal wisdom that you want to refer to, there is no need of writing it just after the book of Allah and before the Gospel and the Torah .
You have had that explained over many pages, either you didnt read it or didnt understand it. go read again.Well, let me bring to you the latest news for you , the words are in arabic not an english, so they found the word, they translated it , without even give you the meaning. Are you saying that the word the God said are an english ? or are you saying that the translation of the words in english is better than the words in Arabic ? , don't answer, I already knew the answer + this is not the subject .
Again you totally missed what I said. It has nothing to do with the Arabic so dont try that one, it is in YOUR interpretation that the problem lies. You said 'instruct with it' was not right and it means 'give lessons with it' WHICH IS THE SAME. Instruct = give lessons. You got it now?
No one has avoided question here only you. People have been answering your questions now for 15 pages and you still claim they havent because they havent AGREED with your view, you have not answered any questions and rather go off asking other questions that are off topic, then complain others are off topic -
Quote from Mazhar on Today at 021441 PM
Reformer, you are right. These are two different things, but not for human beings, yes for donkeys, they cannot get wisdom from the books though they can carry the same.No one can deny that Quran has his own wisdom that we can extract it, but The wisdom that came alone is totally not what you think . Let me remind you that they found the word, they translated it without even compare with the same words in Quran . So ask this question / God described Quran by a lot of description one of them is wisdom, so why this description is the only one that came alone gathered with the books that God had sent ?
ah Edit to add P.S If you're calling people donkeys, let me remind you by this verse .
( )
What I quoted was from Qur'aan, an example is given of people who are like donkeys carrying load of books. The contents of Qur'aan give wisdom, indepth knowledge of ultimate realities, it is its peculiar quality
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/036.%20Ya%20Seen/36.02.gif
Swear by the Grand Qur'aan that contains and grants insight to the invisible/hidden/secreted/infolded matters/things/pearls of wisdom ,Chapter36
-
Yup, I'm going to use this and let me see your next post . I can't even comprehen/understand , so can you enlighten please (you're a moderator) so you must know lot of things about Quran ? so please explain to me the verses in the thread about "The book and the wisdom" ? and answer the question in the thread ? it seems that I can't understand .
What does the first sentence even mean? Babelfish would surely be more coherent in it's translation, so like Ayisha (bless her kind heart, who has summarised for you again) said, why don't you post in a language that you are comfortable in instead of overreaching in an unfamiliar language and falsely claiming you've trumped others? It's either because you have a nefarious agenda which doesn't require you to actually comprehend or learn from others, but to skim-reply with your programmed responses. Or that you truly believe that you're a master of the language, can roll with all the big boys, are one with the force... in your head. Reality disagrees.I don't have a favorite song. so let's cut this thing of and let me see your debating using Quran .
Cut what thing off? Oooh gasp you can't mean...the song? No problem. Okay why don't I nutshell it tooWisdom in the quran refers to wisdom in the quran...
Th1 No! Not the verses that say "and wisdom".
Why?
Th1 Because the "and" means it can't be the quran.
(verse posted 2231)
Th1 It doesn't mean instruct, it means give lessons...(I must add duh! here for effect)
Uh...
Th1 haha I trumped you ALL!
<it continues in smug mode>
(sorry aq, I just gotta borrow your responses)
'laa tattakhidhoo AYAT ALLAHI huzuwan', do you know that ayaat of allah is everything in the world , one of them is Quran which contains verses ?
Th1 Yes! Ayat are not just verses.
So when God puts both together in a verse and claims that he instructs you with IT, it is obviously referring to both things in one together (two sides of a coin)?
Th1 But that is just not so, you see "it fits because the word is for Quran not for HIKMA"
(Dear Lord, give me strength, make him use reasoning, I don't care if it bends Your rules!) No, it means it connects the concepts together...there is the evidence in the verses right there!
Th1 Further, "He mentioned that the prophet was giving the Book and the Hikma, because Quran contains stories where we can understand and comprehend the "Al-ITHA"
Your "because" is stupid because we have a verse where both are used as ONE! This is so you can SEE what it means...the quran being a whole book that you take as a whole with all the verses and put them all together to get a clearer picture.
Th1 "HIKMA is not for that purposes and he let the prophet to show its purposes from their deeds and their sayings and their reports."
Er, evidence?
Th1 'cause I said so.
The quran shows us how wisdom is used, pointing to the scripture/quran time and time again (my post with the verse in it remember? the one you didn't swear by a raccoon was also one).
Th1 Nope, I trump you ALL.This is your "counter attack". It's pathetic. Blame your language skills, and you might save some dignity. You CANNOT bring evidence for what you want it to mean from the quran because it is already confirming itself as the vessel through which it's wisdom is got...all you can say to this quranic evidence is...nothing, except for idiotic rebuttals which don't refute, which is essentially the same as nothing. So yes, you have not brought any proof because you can't, the quran will NOT help you when you want to twist it and make it lie. God gave us an impeccable and precise book, which will negate the lies and confirm the truth. Only those that seek the truth and are free of bias will get fruitful results 5577-79.
Yes, it was hillarious, because I've showed what jack said which was nothing .
It is hilarious, because when someone says something like "you can't prove jack", it means you can't prove anything. Not the poster Jack.To yours, for me it's just a new information for you . Wait the next thread and let's see what you got.
Once again, the first part of your volley is gibberish, as for the second...I'm doing just fine on this one thanks.
You are the moderator, you tell me .
I have been telling you, can't help it if you don't get it. -
Who? Which translators? Which dictionary?
You tell me, I'm not using Quran in english, you are using Quran in english .
Mine, as I said, gives various meanings. So how can you claim "they translate it so and so"? ???
Yes, every word there in the translation means wisdom , and some verses are not even mentioned wisdom .
Look at this 1912 "O John, you shall uphold the scripture, strongly." We endowed him with wisdom, even in his youth.
the word in this verse is not wisdom .
-
You have had that explained over many pages, either you didnt read it or didnt understand it. go read again.
Again you totally missed what I said. It has nothing to do with the Arabic so dont try that one, it is in YOUR interpretation that the problem lies. You said 'instruct with it' was not right and it means 'give lessons with it' WHICH IS THE SAME. Instruct = give lessons. You got it now?
No one has avoided question here only you. People have been answering your questions now for 15 pages and you still claim they havent because they havent AGREED with your view, you have not answered any questions and rather go off asking other questions that are off topic, then complain others are off topicNo one answered my questions They are in the thread and no one answered them . don't lie .
The only person here that spoke good in this thread is abdulquran and it is the only person here understand the thread, you and your kind from savage and leyna , just bla bla bla bla bla in your all posts , just to kill the thread .
-
You tell me, I'm not using Quran in english, you are using Quran in english .
I am not talking about Qur'an. I was talking about translations and dictionaries.
You said they are all wrong, I was asking you how you can come to that conclusion when you
a) don't even know which dictionary I'm talking about and
b) don't know English (or another language) well enough in order to be able to evaluate a particular translation?Now could you please answer those questions instead of dancing around them? Thanks.
peace
-
The only person here that spoke good in this thread is abdulquran and it is the only person here understand the thread, you and your kind from savage and leyna , just bla bla bla bla bla in your all posts , just to kill the thread .
Lol, if aq had the time and inclination to keep posting to Th1, he'd be crying his praises the same way he does ours. You know not what you speak of Th1, and that is well established.
-
Wisdom in the quran refers to wisdom in the quran...
Th1 No! Not the verses that say "and wisdom".
Why?
Th1 Because the "and" means it can't be the quran.
(verse posted 2231)If you said me and Ayisha visited the market, is that mean that me is Ayisha are the same person?
Th1 It doesn't mean instruct, it means give lessons...(I must add duh! here for effect)
Uh...
Th1 haha I trumped you ALL!
<it continues in smug mode>Instruct is like taking orders from your boss or from a book in a city you don't know it . So give lessons is the right words here.
(sorry aq, I just gotta borrow your responses)
'laa tattakhidhoo AYAT ALLAHI huzuwan', do you know that ayaat of allah is everything in the world , one of them is Quran which contains verses ?Hahaha, this is from my post .
Th1 Yes! Ayat are not just verses.
es, Ayat are not just verses and the post above is mine . )
So when God puts both together in a verse and claims that he instructs you with IT, it is obviously referring to both things in one together (two sides of a coin)?
Th1 But that is just not so, you see "it fits because the word is for Quran not for HIKMA"I said it fits because of the word wasn't for Quran, and you can check out , it's with proof .
(Dear Lord, give me strength, make him use reasoning, I don't care if it bends Your rules!) No, it means it connects the concepts together...there is the evidence in the verses right there!
Th1 Further, "He mentioned that the prophet was giving the Book and the Hikma, because Quran contains stories where we can understand and comprehend the "Al-ITHA"
Your "because" is stupid because we have a verse where both are used as ONE! This is so you can SEE what it means...the quran being a whole book that you take as a whole with all the verses and put them all together to get a clearer picture.This is your speech, bring my posts not write stories from your mind .
Th1 "HIKMA is not for that purposes and he let the prophet to show its purposes from their deeds and their sayings and their reports."
Er, evidence?
Th1 'cause I said so.Liar, I gave evidence .I said why would God said teaching them in another verse in the thread if he doesn't mean teaching them by deeds and sayings and reports , go figure
The quran shows us how wisdom is used, pointing to the scripture/quran time and time again (my post with the verse in it remember? the one you didn't swear by a raccoon was also one).
Th1 Nope, I trump you ALL.Liar, you have admitted before that Wisdom and scripture are two different things now you back up your claims and saying that they are one , what a joke , just prove it from Quran that they are the same . and about "I trump you all" is your bla bla bla I didn't say that and it is your way of lying .
This is your "counter attack". It's pathetic. Blame your language skills, and you might save some dignity. You CANNOT bring evidence for what you want it to mean from the quran because it is already confirming itself as the vessel through which it's wisdom is got...all you can say to this quranic evidence is...nothing, except for idiotic rebuttals which don't refute, which is essentially the same as nothing. So yes, you have not brought any proof because you can't, the quran will NOT help you when you want to twist it and make it lie. God gave us an impeccable and precise book, which will negate the lies and confirm the truth. Only those that seek the truth and are free of bias will get fruitful results 5577-79.
Whatever if that is going to make you happy.
It is hilarious, because when someone says something like "you can't prove jack", it means you can't prove anything. Not the poster Jack.
Another lie and running of the right subject, you said I didn't answer Jack which a moderator, but in fact he said nothing in his posts other than write a puzzle and run . About "you can't prove jack" I didn't say it , which is lie from you .
Once again, the first part of your volley is gibberish, as for the second...I'm doing just fine on this one thanks.
No, you're not doing fine ..you're just here to speak just for avoiding the subject and hide the truth . your tricks are cheap .
I have been telling you, can't help it if you don't get it.
I don't know but I can't guess , but being you or another person , maybe.
-
Dear God help me understand WHY I am carrying on instead of finishing my year end accounts hail
If you said me and Ayisha visited the market, is that mean that me is Ayisha are the same person?
If I said Ayisha has a bag from the market full of onions then I said I brought back the bag AND the onions, does it mean I have some different onions to the ones IN the bag?I do not have the energy to read the rest, just going to stick my head in the oven '(
-
I am not talking about Qur'an. I was talking about translations and dictionaries.
What I said in my post ? I said that they found the word, they translated the word, so talking about Quran .
I'm going to bring all the translations of Quran, about the word wisdom . wait and let's see have they give you the meaning or just they translated the word ?
You said they are all wrong, I was asking you how you can come to that conclusion when you
I didn't say they are all wrong, you said are you saying that they are all wron ; I said that they translated the word because they have found it like that without even tried to look for the meanings.
a) don't even know which dictionary I'm talking about and
I'm not talking about any dictionary neither you, we are talking about Quran and the words in it. are they translated with their meanings or just the words alone .
b) don't know English (or another language) well enough in order to be able to evaluate a particular translation?
Ah, really are you living with me ? I speak 4 languages just to aware you .
Now could you please answer those questions instead of dancing around them? Thanks.
I've answer yours , now answer mine in the thread .
-
Lol, if aq had the time and inclination to keep posting to Th1, he'd be crying his praises the same way he does ours. You know not what you speak of Th1, and that is well established.
Why would I cry ? if his aim is to learn and understand, my pleasure. But if his aim (like yours) is to hide the thread and just waste my time , I must ignore it as God ordered us to avoid the "Sufaha'a".
-
Dear God help me understand WHY I am carrying on instead of finishing my year end accounts hail
If I said Ayisha has a bag from the market full of onions then I said I brought back the bag AND the onions, does it mean I have some different onions to the ones IN the bag?Hahah, is God said that Quran is full of Wisdom ?
OK , I'll use your example Ayisha has a bag from the market full of onions, but what about me, I have a bag from the market full of tomatos . me and Ayisha are two differents person , Quran and the wisdom are two differents things.
Your example is wrong because God didn't say that Quran is full of wisdom, but he described Quran by wisdom , are you going to describe your bag by onions ? hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh rotfl
I do not have the energy to read the rest, just going to stick my head in the oven '(
Agreed added Ignorance .
-
What I said in my post ? I said that they found the word, they translated the word, so talking about Quran .
No, it was not clear that you were talking about the Qur'an. I asked you explicitly which translators / dictionaries you were referring to when you stated they are all wrong. You refused to answer.
wait and let's see have they give you the meaning or just they translated the word ?
Please read my posts properly. I wrote above
My dictionary lists about two pages of meanings for the rood ha-ka-mim and related words.
That was after you said it is basically impossible to translate the word hikmah.
I'm not talking about any dictionary neither you, we are talking about Quran and the words in it. are they translated with their meanings or just the words alone .
See above. I was speaking about translations in general. Your claim was that all translators and translations are wrong. I pointed out that it is imposssible for you to determine whether this is true. As far as I can see, you have not even checked an Arabic / English or Arabic / French dictionary for possible translations.
Ah, really are you living with me ? I speak 4 languages just to aware you .
I don't have to live with you in order to see that your command of English is faulty to say the least.
Are you living with me to know which dictionaries I am using and how they translate hikmah?
I've answer yours ,
No, you haven't. nope How are you able to determine the quality of a translation from Arabic to English?
-
If you said me and Ayisha visited the market, is that mean that me is Ayisha are the same person?
Idiotic analogy. If I said I gave you a brain and knowledge, would you use them together to get wisdom? Apparently not.Instruct is like taking orders from your boss or from a book in a city you don't know it . So give lessons is the right words here.
Who's your daddy/boss in the quran Th1, so to speak? Do you not take orders from the quran? -\ Oh yeah, you take orders from rumour mongers centuries after the revelation, sorry I forgot.Hahaha, this is from my post
So? I'm borrowing his line of argument.es, Ayat are not just verses and the post above is mine .
Yes, I know the post is yours...instead of focusing on the trivial can you perhaps focus on the direction of the "discussion"? Too much to ask?I said it fits because of the word wasn't for Quran, and you can check out , it's with proof .
That's not proof, maybe you need to look up the meaning of the word. You keep ignoring that both are mentioned shifting to singular = connect the damn concepts, along with all the other verses that point to quran being the vessel of it's wisdom.This is your speech, bring my posts not write stories from your mind .
Now, it's my turn to do the Th1...Hahaha this is your post and MY responses. Obviously you can't counter. Sprint away and try to kick up dust as you do.Liar, I gave evidence .I said why would God said teaching them in another verse in the thread if he doesn't mean teaching them by deeds and sayings and reports , go figure
No, you're the LIAR. You're the one who lies and says instructing them means NOT from the quran. You have no evidence except for the voices in your head = YaAAithu is not instruct because prophet not in need of instructing you using Quran because Quran is full of clear instructions. This is your idiotic rebuttal! So the prophet had no need to use the quran to instruct because the quran is full of clear instructions. What utter crap. No wonder you're so far gone from reality, you're lost in your own illogical made up fantasies. 2129 "Our Lord, and send amongst them a messenger from among themselves, that he may recite to them Your revelations and teach them the Scripture and the wisdom, and purify them. You are the Noble, the Wise."Liar, you have admitted before that Wisdom and scripture are two different things now you back up your claims and saying that they are one , what a joke , just prove it from Quran that they are the same . and about "I trump you all" is your bla bla bla I didn't say that and it is your way of lying .
You're hopelessly incompetent in your chosen mode of communication. It's already proven.Whatever if that is going to make you happy.
Ignore when you can't counter, and pathetically counter where you try to. Good job.Another lie and running of the right subject, you said I didn't answer Jack which a moderator, but in fact he said nothing in his posts other than write a puzzle and run . About "you can't prove jack" I didn't say it , which is lie from you .
Gibberish. Please switch to french, just so I can say excuse my french.No, you're not doing fine ..you're just here to speak just for avoiding the subject and hide the truth . your tricks are cheap .
More crap.I don't know but I can't guess , but being you or another person , maybe.
Merde, more crap. Pardon my french. -
Hahah, is God said that Quran is full of Wisdom ?
Your example is wrong because God didn't say that Quran is full of wisdom,
You are laughing at Quran and the Words of Allah? voodoo
358 This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom
101 A.L.R. These are the ayats of the Book of Wisdom.
312 These are Verses of the Wise Book
362 By the Qur'an, full of WisdomExplain in your own words those verses.
-
Until you understand what God said in his book, then you can speak .
until you understand that God prohibits in believing anything after the Quran, you should just shut up.
These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which HADITH after God and His AYAS do they believe?
Woe to every sinful fabricator (456-7) -
No, it was not clear that you were talking about the Qur'an. I asked you explicitly which translators / dictionaries you were referring to when you stated they are all wrong. You refused to answer.
Please read my posts properly. I wrote above
My dictionary lists about two pages of meanings for the rood ha-ka-mim and related words.
That was after you said it is basically impossible to translate the word hikmah.
See above. I was speaking about translations in general. Your claim was that all translators and translations are wrong. I pointed out that it is imposssible for you to determine whether this is true. As far as I can see, you have not even checked an Arabic / English or Arabic / French dictionary for possible translations.
I don't have to live with you in order to see that your command of English is faulty to say the least.
Are you living with me to know which dictionaries I am using and how they translate hikmah?
No, you haven't. nope How are you able to determine the quality of a translation from Arabic to English?I've answered all these things but my computer just shut down with no reason , and I must say that it was too long and I can't write it again . Instead of that I'm going to say this is not about the subject, make a thread if you want to talk about wrong not wrong .
-
By the Qur'an, full of wisdom
(362)
Yes , the word "" is "" so it description . Not full of wisdom .