what do you say about this ?
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well not just any Tom, Dick & Harry right Tom, Dick & Harry Hadith studies Ph. D. so who are we to question them. Even though the Qu'ran says not to accept anything you can't verify on your own.
I think this is a good example of the "flowery discourse" we are told to be aware of. Like the other person who kept saying the truth is unavoidable when I showed him the verse that said "Everything (which is pertinent to your salvation) is explained in this book." And he kept avoiding it himself while telling me at the same time the truth is unavoidable...
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Salaam zulu,
Each to their own. If you find peace and become a peaceful person by practicing ahlussunnah wal jama'ah, then I guess, do it. I have no problem in anyone who has different religious beliefs than I do, as long as they're peaceful. You can be a Christian, A Jew, a Sunni, a Shi'a, a Hindu, whatever you may be, and I will respect you as long as you perform righteous deeds for the sake of God, and do not harm/hurt others in your way.
Personally, I do not 'abandon' zakat, salat, hajj, etc, but I have different understanding of what they are. Instead of paying 2.5% zakat every year, I do it whenever I earn my income and however much I can afford to spend. Same goes with salat and hajj. Just because I have different interpretation from the majority, it does not mean I abandon them altogether. I hope you can see the difference.
Do whatever your heart tells you to do. My way can be wrong, and so can anyone else's. What matters is that we practice what we truly believe, and not what others believe just because they say so, and that we dedicate our actions to God alone. May God lead all of us to the straight Path .
Salaam.
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salam Zulu, cool rant peace
You seem to be under the misconception that 'PM's' are another sect group all following the same thing, like sunni and other sects. this is not the case. Take your mind out of 'the box' mode for a bit.
I do not reject prayer, fasting, hajj or anything else you mention and I pay zakat whenever I can, regularly as Quran says, = I follow Quran and what is in it, nor do I think khalifa is a 'messenger', ok you didnt say that but it seems to be what hadithist think, because they cant get out of the 'follow a leader and be in a box' mode.
I have never slated the prophet and I have never seen that from any other person on here apart from certain hadithists who claim he said things that a prophet of God wouldnt say, IMHO. Again this is a problem for the 'box' mentality because you think rejecting the hadith and picking out those that clearly contradict each other and Quran means slating the messenger, it doesn't at all, it is slating those people that attributed to the prophet all these contradictions! You slate him more by believing he said them, IMHO!
The prophet was a chosen man, chosen by Allah to give us this message of Quran and thats ALL he was to do, what YOU and ME do with that message is up to US as individuals and if YOU chose to look elsewhere in how to follow what the prophet taught that is your problem OR your gain as none of us will know till later, I prefer to stick to the textbook he was teaching FROM, because it is clear and detailed as it SAYS it is.
I DO follow the messenger IMO in the message he was giving. Allah said nothing should be added to HIS Words, which is what hadith (words of muhammed) does do. It gives a different meaning altogether and that is where the proplem lies in todays Islam, NOT by people like me who choose to look ONLY at Gods words because when I do that only I am responsible for the errors in MY interpretation of the message between Allah-Quran_me. By following 'scholars OPINIONS and not MY opinions derived from MY research (which WILL include reading and listening TO those scholars) I am IGNORING what Allah tells ME to use of my thoughts, reflections and God given brain. By following something that MUSLIMS, men and women, human beings, TELL me THIS IS ISLAM as you and 'the majority' do then I am NOT following what God TELLS me to follow I am following what God tells (insert name) to follow and they have used THEIR brain to arrive at that decision.
Does that make any sense?
What YOU follow is
Allah-Quran-'messenger'-Bukhari-scholars of various numbers and opinions-mosque imam opinion-family (forefathers)-other muslims-YOUWhat I follow is
Allah-Quran-ME -
Wasn't that obvious?
No, It was .
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I think you've got the verse numbers in the above quotation wrong. I gave you verses 3531,32, but you've translated verses 3532,33 instead, putting the translation of verse 3532 for 3531, and 3533 for 3532!
I'm not blind, stop trying to avoid the truth. The verses that I gave you are the ones that you pointed out and the subject was the book , in the verse 33 there is no book.
Anyways, you seem to have been pretty confused. I recommend that you take some time off and try to meditate a little, then come back fresh and relaxed. GOD'S business is a very serious one. Just remember we are all responsible before GOD(SWT). Try not sell what belongs to GOD for a cheap price. Remember, the life of this world is nothing but an illusion, 3185, then sooner than latter we will all be standing before Him to answer.
I think you should accept your ignorance of Quran and don't claim that you follow it as Hypocrises people . And by the way as I see you know just the numbers .
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So the prophet (pbuh) was a human being, was he not? The only time we are allowed to obey his commands is when it is the Qu'ran that he is delivering...
the verse is not about the prophet .
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Each to their own. If you find peace and become a peaceful person by practicing ahlussunnah wal jama'ah, then I guess, do it. I have no problem in anyone who has different religious beliefs than I do, as long as they're peaceful. You can be a Christian, A Jew, a Sunni, a Shi'a, a Hindu, whatever you may be, and I will respect you as long as you perform righteous deeds for the sake of God, and do not harm/hurt others in your way.
Personally, I do not 'abandon' zakat, salat, hajj, etc, but I have different understanding of what they are. Instead of paying 2.5% zakat every year, I do it whenever I earn my income and however much I can afford to spend. Same goes with salat and hajj. Just because I have different interpretation from the majority, it does not mean I abandon them altogether. I hope you can see the difference.
Do whatever your heart tells you to do. My way can be wrong, and so can anyone else's. What matters is that we practice what we truly believe, and not what others believe just because they say so, and that we dedicate our actions to God alone. May God lead all of us to the straight Path .
Well said. peace
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I do not reject prayer, fasting, hajj or anything else you mention and I pay zakat whenever I can, regularly as Quran says, = I follow Quran and what is in it, nor do I think khalifa is a 'messenger', ok you didnt say that but it seems to be what hadithist think, because they cant get out of the 'follow a leader and be in a box' mode.
You're praying like us, you're fasting like us and you'll perform Hajj if God willing like us. Well you're contradicting Quran .
The way we pray is because people saw the prophet how he prayed and we inherted it through generations, it is not in Quran , so why do you take it ?
fasting , Quran says until night , so why you're performing fasting like sunnah muslims ? and what God meant by until night ? and at what time in this night ? .
Hajj you'll perform it Insha'allah like us, there is no mentioning in how to do it in Quran, so why you're going to perfom it like us ?
ah and Zakat you'll not take how to pay it from Hadith, you'll use Quran which there is no mentioning in the way and the some that you are going to give .
Prayers, fasting, Hajj like muslims sunni, but zakat and other things no my own way . is that make sense ?
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You're praying like us, you're fasting like us and you'll perform Hajj if God willing like us. Well you're contradicting Quran .
so you're saying you are contradicting Quran.Who says Im praying fasting etc like you?
The way we pray is because people saw the prophet how he prayed and we inherted it through generations, it is not in Quran , so why do you take it ?
who said I did it like you? Quran tells me to pray and establish regular prayer.fasting , Quran says until night , so why you're performing fasting like sunnah muslims ? and what God meant by until night ? and at what time in this night ? .
who said I do it like you?Hajj you'll perform it Insha'allah like us, there is no mentioning in how to do it in Quran, so why you're going to perfom it like us ?
who said I would do it like you?ah and Zakat you'll not take how to pay it from Hadith, you'll use Quran which there is no mentioning in the way and the some that you are going to give .
The instruction is to pay zakat REGULARLY and its in most of the same verses as 'establish regular prayer' so how come you only pay zakat once a year and pray 5 times a day, how do you distinguish 'regular' in those verse to mean that?Prayers, fasting, Hajj like muslims sunni, but zakat and other things no my own way . is that make sense ?
No it doesnt but thats NOT what I said and is your brain (or lack of) that has decided that is what I said. No wonder you twist all the verses, you are not THINKING when you READ.
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by the way Thereformer1, you seem to have 'overlooked' the questions I asked regarding the hadith you asked for. It is here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600475.30
I would appreciate your wisdom in explaining which verses of Quran these hadith 'explain' please.
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The way we pray is because people saw the prophet how he prayed and we inherted it through generations, it is not in Quran , so why do you take it ?
So you are alleging that he did not pray in earlier forty years or so when Qur'aan was not communicated to him.
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The way we pray is because people saw the prophet how he prayed and we inherted it through generations, it is not in Quran, so why do you take it ?
Classic sign of disbelief as evidenced by quran.
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Who says Im praying fasting etc like you?
So , how do you pray ? with proof from Quran with numvers of Raka'at and what to say in sallat in prostrating, with all details of sallat , please a proof from Quran .
So for fasting, the time of breaking the fasting ?
who said I did it like you? Quran tells me to pray and establish regular prayer.
How ? proof from Quran , how this regular prayer should be? let me remind you that you didn't even know if the prayers two or three or five as you proved before to you
who said I do it like you?
So how you do it ?
who said I would do it like you?
The instruction is to pay zakat REGULARLY and its in most of the same verses as 'establish regular prayer' so how come you only pay zakat once a year and pray 5 times a day, how do you distinguish 'regular' in those verse to mean that?ok, proof that from Quran with verses and explanation of every verse.
No it doesnt but thats NOT what I said and is your brain (or lack of) that has decided that is what I said. No wonder you twist all the verses, you are not THINKING when you READ.
Yes, you're thinking , so bring to me every verse of what God means by regular prayer and how to perfom it with what to say in every prayer and how much are ? and how much rakk'at are ? and where is the doher in Quran ? and what God mean by the middle prayer ? and why Zakat not mentioned ho pay it ? and the some that you will pay ? and how to perform Hajj with every rules of being accepted ? .
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by the way Thereformer1, you seem to have 'overlooked' the questions I asked regarding the hadith you asked for. It is here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600475.30
I would appreciate your wisdom in explaining which verses of Quran these hadith 'explain' please.
No, you would appreciate something else.
And you'll get your answer after answering the question in the thread which was the subject .Read the P.S in the thread.
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The Prophet can only judge in accordance to the Quran (4/105 and 5/4. He's not around anymore to run the show so all we have are words of people we may not be able to trust.
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I'm not blind, stop trying to avoid the truth. The verses that I gave you are the ones that you pointed out and the subject was the book , in the verse 33 there is no book.
Dear Thereformer1,
I did not say you are blind. I am saying that you put the wrong translation for the verses 3531,32. Rub your eyes and check it again. It is your own QUOTATION. Just open The Qur'aan and check it out instead of copying and pasting from other sources! Here is your QUOTATION.
3531 { Then We gave the Book the Qur'?n) for inheritance to such of Our slaves whom We chose (the followers of Muhammad SAW). Then of them are some who wrong their ownselves, and of them are some who follow a middle course, and of them are some who are, by All?h's Leave, foremost in good deeds. That (inheritance of the Qur'?n), that is indeed a great grace. 32{ 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (everlasting Gardens) will they enter, therein will they be adorned with bracelets of gold and pearls, and their garments there will be of silk (i.e. in Paradise).}
Peace,
Khalil