How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
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Peace Leyna
You were the one who brought up the issue of divorce rate, suggesting a more lenient approach towards sexuality could be the reason for rising divorce rates. peace
I know. But...I didn't suggest that such a method should be upheld. I was just preoccupied with the idea thinking whether there is a causal link.
I fully agree with you that casual, meaningless sex is not a good thing at all. But you seem to be equating sex without a marriage certificate with promiscuity, loveless sex, sleeping around etc., and I strongly disagree with that. People can have a serious relationship full of love and commitment without a piece of paper stating that they are married. And people can be married but have a loveless sex life, cheat on each other and so on.
Where did i say that? I am trying argue that in a serious relationship, sex is morally and logically ok peace
Speaking of cheating ... this is slightly OT, but since the issue of AIDS and STDs has been brought up in this context, I'd like to point out that the assumption "sex wihtout marriage = spread of STDs" is wrong. Fact is, that in many countries, married women are at a very high risk of being infected with HIV through their husbands. So I believe we should leave this argument aside when talking about sex before marriage.
I also agree. The only arguments i think stand are the arguments in terms of law and children. By law i mean the protection obtained from the law.
I understand what you are saying, but in order to find out, the best way would be to actually talk to people who have first hand experience with that, rather than relying on your personal assumptions. I know people who had casual sex in the past but live in monogamous, happy relationships now. Personally, I believe the ability to love someone and be faithful to him / her is a question of maturity and integrity, and people can evolve and change during their lifetime. So I wouldn't necessarily say that having sex before marriage "damages" a person's capability for love and commitment.
I have but the outcome of the discussions i have had with such people also lead me to an approach of being careful with sex. As in waiting untill i am in a very serious relationship or marriage.
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Marriage doesn't necessarly protect one from disease and other harms, as adultery is common throughout the world. Even if one party remains faithful, they can still can get disease from their spouse.
However, sex is intended be between two trusting individuals. This is why it's so easy to catch/spread disease when you have sex with random people. I believe our creator specifically wrote the program in this fashion. Without trust--the foundation--you have nothing.I agree. This is also to a large extent my line of thought.
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Peace everyone,
159 We descended the reminder and we are protectors of it.
The ink and paper that the great reading (al-quran al-adhim) is printed on is not magical, or sacred, or holy. It doesn't save or guide anyone. Obviously it is the reminder that matters. The same principle is applied to a contract (mithaq) of marriage; although the paper it is printed on is irrelevant, it provides the kind of righteous framework needed to have a lasting, loving commitment.
First, let it be known that there is a very strong and very serious knot being tied through a marriage contract.
2235 Do not tie the knot of marriage (uqdah al-nikah) until...
421 They (the women) have taken from you (men) a very strong/serious contract.The contract is described as "ghalidh" (very strong; very serious), the same word used by the god to describe the contract that ALL the prophets made with the god in 337 and 381 - to deliver their messages to humankind and recognize Gabriel (gibril) when he came to all of them (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10190.0). So it's a big deal.
Two elements needed to keep the contractual knot tied tightly are (1) love (mawaddah) and (2) kindness (rahmah). You need both, working simultatenously, to make a marriage work.
3021 Of his signs is that he created for you from yourselves spouses, so that you may have comfort with them. And he made between you love and kindness.
People get divorced because they can't maintain (1) love and (2) kindness in their marriage.
Peace,
-David
Peace David
We are in agreement to the seriousness of a marriage oath. However what we are in disagreement is whether sex should be exclusive to marriage.
Marriage is a life long commitment. No one should pop the question before being sure. I consider sex as part of the progression of a relationship towards marriage and not as something that becomes unlocked once married. -
God has a response to everything, do you think that in the quran that when it is said that we will be punished for exceeding the limits in this world (and the hereafter) that it is in jest?
Consider why we have an AIDS epidemic, why STDs exist, the lack of harmony in societies where there are broken family structures. A child is a combination of the mother and father with some differences, it is only through knowing the mother and father that a child can really know itself properly and its position in the global landscape.
Yes but AIDS and STDs and unwanted pregnancies come from either failure to use contraception or the conraception failing. You could have an unwanted pregnancy within a marriage or and STD within a marriage if either contraception fails or you fail to use it. What is the difference? bear in mind that this is not to argue for casual sex but to argue against sex being exclusive to marriages.
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can someone provide cliff notes to this long thread.
is the OP saying that pre-marital sex is allowed in the Quran or is not prohibited?
I think the OP was saying that pre-marital sex must be allowed in some form according to the quran. And I agreed with the OP and provided points towards the thought of ma malakat aymanukum was that which is the other form of sex outside the contract of "nikah". In nikah you can only do so with monotheist women. With your ma malakat aymanukum, any women of any religion or legal state (apart from women on the outside men on the inside ).
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thanks
his understanding of "ma malakat aymanukum" is completely incorrect then. he should read EDIP YUSKEL's translation and accompanying notes on that verse from Surah Nisa. it clearly does not allow pre-marital sex in any shape or form. if this was the case, why would we men would get married or look forward to it at all? the joy and pleasure of having multiple sex partners without any form of committment sounds so damn sweet isnt it?
i think some sects use this verse to do temporary marriages too.
either way...its an absolutely retarded notion in my opinion. Goes against everything that quran talks about regarding the foundation of a family.
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thanks
his understanding of "ma malakat aymanukum" is completely incorrect then. he should read EDIP YUSKEL's translation and accompanying notes on that verse from Surah Nisa. it clearly does not allow pre-marital sex in any shape or form. if this was the case, why would we men would get married or look forward to it at all? the joy and pleasure of having multiple sex partners without any form of committment sounds so damn sweet isnt it?
i think some sects use this verse to do temporary marriages too.
either way...its an absolutely retarded notion in my opinion. Goes against everything that quran talks about regarding the foundation of a family.
That's my understanding of it. Not pre- but outside marriage.
I understand that there are two contracts. Nikah and ma malakat aymanukum. Families are created in both forms. Imagine you live in a place where there are no muslim women, what are you to do? Sin? No... allah provides an easier option because of quran 314.
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That's my understanding of it. Not pre- but outside marriage.
I understand that there are two contracts. Nikah and ma malakat aymanukum. Families are created in both forms. Imagine you live in a place where there are no muslim women, what are you to do? Sin? No... allah provides an easier option because of quran 314.
the contract of nikah is the same but the category of women may differ. please understand this very carefully. the verse does not categorize "forms" of marriage but rather "women" that a man may marry. dont forget this verse is a part of surah nissa (women) so any interpretation has to be in light of rights of women or else...there was no need for a chapter specifically dedicated towards them.
whatever translation or interpretation one may come up with for "mamalakat aymanukum", the standard marriage contact, fullfillment of rights and responsibilities apply 100%.
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the contract of nikah is the same but the category of women may differ. please understand this very carefully. the verse does not categorize "forms" of marriage but rather "women" that a man may marry. dont forget this verse is a part of surah nissa (women) so any interpretation has to be in light of rights of women or else...there was no need for a chapter specifically dedicated towards them.
whatever translation or interpretation one may come up with for "mamalakat aymanukum", the standard marriage contact, fullfillment of rights and responsibilities apply 100%.
Quran 2433... the contract negation is available there... so there would already be a contract as according to the quran... just like here in the UK, cohabitation would automatically be a verbal contract. http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/24/33/default.htm
The standard marriage contract cannot be applied, as you cannot marry polytheists, atheists... pseudo christians... jinn, non-monotheists where as there's no restriction on ma malakat aymanukum. Apart from safety concerns as according to quran 243 and 2195 and 429 and 1726-27 and 443
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Can't marry jinn...?
Darn it.
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Can't marry jinn...?
Darn it.
It depends on who exactly are jinn and not all are unbelievers?
721-2 Say "It has been revealed to me that a group of jinn listened. They said 'Truly, we have heard a wonderful recitation (Qur'an); 'it guides to the right path, and we have believed therein, and we shall never join anything with our Lord.
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I married some Jinns once (don't ask). I wouldn't recommend it.
Yeah I heard they're really hot... lol ;D
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Can't marry jinn...?
Darn it.
Can't marry a jinn for health reasons... the children would turn out worse than cousin marriages or sister marriages.
Yes, particularly intoxicating they were. Once you go Jinn, you never go back.
Yeah I heard they're really hot... lol ;D
But when they get angry... http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptXuPhStU5A
And when they get old... boy do their bodies turn flatulent.
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Why not? Some of them are quite handsome imho.
Not sure if I'd like to have blue-skinned kids though ...
http//www.werner-dz.de/images/animationen/dschinn.gif
He meant he had a sexual dream...
though they might be handsome... they're going to be very naughty (harsh) to you http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incubus
Here's one of them
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/John_Henry_Fuseli_-The_Nightmare.JPG/741px-John_Henry_Fuseli-_The_Nightmare.JPG
You still want to eh?
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
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Where did i say that? I am trying argue that in a serious relationship, sex is morally and logically ok peace
Oh sorry, I misunderstood you then. So we're basically in agreement. peace
The only arguments i think stand are the arguments in terms of law and children. By law i mean the protection obtained from the law.
In my country, and many others, a person who fathers a child is legally obliged to pay for its maintenance, regardless of whether he is married to the mother or not. Imo that's the way it should be. I doubt though that laws like that will be implemented in any Islamic country any time soon since supposedly this will give rise to promiscous behaviour etc. But in fact what is happening is that women are being punished or forced into abortion, while males are free to have sex with whoever they please regardless of the consequences. Is that fair? I think not.
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Oh sorry, I misunderstood you then. So we're basically in agreement. peace
In my country, and many others, a person who fathers a child is legally obliged to pay for its maintenance, regardless of whether he is married to the mother or not. Imo that's the way it should be. I doubt though that laws like that will be implemented in any Islamic country any time soon since supposedly this will give rise to promiscous behaviour etc. But in fact what is happening is that women are being punished or forced into abortion, while males are free to have sex with whoever they please regardless of the consequences. Is that fair? I think not.
In islamic method... the women dump the child with the father when it's gotten into puberty.
I hope you're not blaming men for having sex even though women agree to enjoy. Because many a time those men don't want abortions. Many a time it's the society around that woman that would promote abortions.
Why would you demand non-islamic laws upon muslim?