How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
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Peace everyone,
159 We descended the reminder and we are protectors of it.
The ink and paper that the great reading (al-quran al-adhim) is printed on is not magical, or sacred, or holy. It doesn't save or guide anyone. Obviously it is the reminder that matters. The same principle is applied to a contract (mithaq) of marriage; although the paper it is printed on is irrelevant, it provides the kind of righteous framework needed to have a lasting, loving commitment.
First, let it be known that there is a very strong and very serious knot being tied through a marriage contract.
2235 Do not tie the knot of marriage (uqdah al-nikah) until...
421 They (the women) have taken from you (men) a very strong/serious contract.The contract is described as "ghalidh" (very strong; very serious), the same word used by the god to describe the contract that ALL the prophets made with the god in 337 and 381 - to deliver their messages to humankind and recognize Gabriel (gibril) when he came to all of them (http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10190.0). So it's a big deal.
Two elements needed to keep the contractual knot tied tightly are (1) love (mawaddah) and (2) kindness (rahmah). You need both, working simultatenously, to make a marriage work.
3021 Of his signs is that he created for you from yourselves spouses, so that you may have comfort with them. And he made between you love and kindness.
People get divorced because they can't maintain (1) love and (2) kindness in their marriage.
Peace,
-David
Peace David
We are in agreement to the seriousness of a marriage oath. However what we are in disagreement is whether sex should be exclusive to marriage.
Marriage is a life long commitment. No one should pop the question before being sure. I consider sex as part of the progression of a relationship towards marriage and not as something that becomes unlocked once married. -
God has a response to everything, do you think that in the quran that when it is said that we will be punished for exceeding the limits in this world (and the hereafter) that it is in jest?
Consider why we have an AIDS epidemic, why STDs exist, the lack of harmony in societies where there are broken family structures. A child is a combination of the mother and father with some differences, it is only through knowing the mother and father that a child can really know itself properly and its position in the global landscape.
Yes but AIDS and STDs and unwanted pregnancies come from either failure to use contraception or the conraception failing. You could have an unwanted pregnancy within a marriage or and STD within a marriage if either contraception fails or you fail to use it. What is the difference? bear in mind that this is not to argue for casual sex but to argue against sex being exclusive to marriages.
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can someone provide cliff notes to this long thread.
is the OP saying that pre-marital sex is allowed in the Quran or is not prohibited?
I think the OP was saying that pre-marital sex must be allowed in some form according to the quran. And I agreed with the OP and provided points towards the thought of ma malakat aymanukum was that which is the other form of sex outside the contract of "nikah". In nikah you can only do so with monotheist women. With your ma malakat aymanukum, any women of any religion or legal state (apart from women on the outside men on the inside ).
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thanks
his understanding of "ma malakat aymanukum" is completely incorrect then. he should read EDIP YUSKEL's translation and accompanying notes on that verse from Surah Nisa. it clearly does not allow pre-marital sex in any shape or form. if this was the case, why would we men would get married or look forward to it at all? the joy and pleasure of having multiple sex partners without any form of committment sounds so damn sweet isnt it?
i think some sects use this verse to do temporary marriages too.
either way...its an absolutely retarded notion in my opinion. Goes against everything that quran talks about regarding the foundation of a family.
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thanks
his understanding of "ma malakat aymanukum" is completely incorrect then. he should read EDIP YUSKEL's translation and accompanying notes on that verse from Surah Nisa. it clearly does not allow pre-marital sex in any shape or form. if this was the case, why would we men would get married or look forward to it at all? the joy and pleasure of having multiple sex partners without any form of committment sounds so damn sweet isnt it?
i think some sects use this verse to do temporary marriages too.
either way...its an absolutely retarded notion in my opinion. Goes against everything that quran talks about regarding the foundation of a family.
That's my understanding of it. Not pre- but outside marriage.
I understand that there are two contracts. Nikah and ma malakat aymanukum. Families are created in both forms. Imagine you live in a place where there are no muslim women, what are you to do? Sin? No... allah provides an easier option because of quran 314.
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That's my understanding of it. Not pre- but outside marriage.
I understand that there are two contracts. Nikah and ma malakat aymanukum. Families are created in both forms. Imagine you live in a place where there are no muslim women, what are you to do? Sin? No... allah provides an easier option because of quran 314.
the contract of nikah is the same but the category of women may differ. please understand this very carefully. the verse does not categorize "forms" of marriage but rather "women" that a man may marry. dont forget this verse is a part of surah nissa (women) so any interpretation has to be in light of rights of women or else...there was no need for a chapter specifically dedicated towards them.
whatever translation or interpretation one may come up with for "mamalakat aymanukum", the standard marriage contact, fullfillment of rights and responsibilities apply 100%.
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the contract of nikah is the same but the category of women may differ. please understand this very carefully. the verse does not categorize "forms" of marriage but rather "women" that a man may marry. dont forget this verse is a part of surah nissa (women) so any interpretation has to be in light of rights of women or else...there was no need for a chapter specifically dedicated towards them.
whatever translation or interpretation one may come up with for "mamalakat aymanukum", the standard marriage contact, fullfillment of rights and responsibilities apply 100%.
Quran 2433... the contract negation is available there... so there would already be a contract as according to the quran... just like here in the UK, cohabitation would automatically be a verbal contract. http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/24/33/default.htm
The standard marriage contract cannot be applied, as you cannot marry polytheists, atheists... pseudo christians... jinn, non-monotheists where as there's no restriction on ma malakat aymanukum. Apart from safety concerns as according to quran 243 and 2195 and 429 and 1726-27 and 443
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Can't marry jinn...?
Darn it.
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Can't marry jinn...?
Darn it.
It depends on who exactly are jinn and not all are unbelievers?
721-2 Say "It has been revealed to me that a group of jinn listened. They said 'Truly, we have heard a wonderful recitation (Qur'an); 'it guides to the right path, and we have believed therein, and we shall never join anything with our Lord.
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I married some Jinns once (don't ask). I wouldn't recommend it.
Yeah I heard they're really hot... lol ;D
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Can't marry jinn...?
Darn it.
Can't marry a jinn for health reasons... the children would turn out worse than cousin marriages or sister marriages.
Yes, particularly intoxicating they were. Once you go Jinn, you never go back.
Yeah I heard they're really hot... lol ;D
But when they get angry... http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptXuPhStU5A
And when they get old... boy do their bodies turn flatulent.
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Why not? Some of them are quite handsome imho.
Not sure if I'd like to have blue-skinned kids though ...
http//www.werner-dz.de/images/animationen/dschinn.gif
He meant he had a sexual dream...
though they might be handsome... they're going to be very naughty (harsh) to you http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incubus
Here's one of them
http//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/John_Henry_Fuseli_-The_Nightmare.JPG/741px-John_Henry_Fuseli-_The_Nightmare.JPG
You still want to eh?
rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
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Where did i say that? I am trying argue that in a serious relationship, sex is morally and logically ok peace
Oh sorry, I misunderstood you then. So we're basically in agreement. peace
The only arguments i think stand are the arguments in terms of law and children. By law i mean the protection obtained from the law.
In my country, and many others, a person who fathers a child is legally obliged to pay for its maintenance, regardless of whether he is married to the mother or not. Imo that's the way it should be. I doubt though that laws like that will be implemented in any Islamic country any time soon since supposedly this will give rise to promiscous behaviour etc. But in fact what is happening is that women are being punished or forced into abortion, while males are free to have sex with whoever they please regardless of the consequences. Is that fair? I think not.
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Oh sorry, I misunderstood you then. So we're basically in agreement. peace
In my country, and many others, a person who fathers a child is legally obliged to pay for its maintenance, regardless of whether he is married to the mother or not. Imo that's the way it should be. I doubt though that laws like that will be implemented in any Islamic country any time soon since supposedly this will give rise to promiscous behaviour etc. But in fact what is happening is that women are being punished or forced into abortion, while males are free to have sex with whoever they please regardless of the consequences. Is that fair? I think not.
In islamic method... the women dump the child with the father when it's gotten into puberty.
I hope you're not blaming men for having sex even though women agree to enjoy. Because many a time those men don't want abortions. Many a time it's the society around that woman that would promote abortions.
Why would you demand non-islamic laws upon muslim?
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In islamic method... the women dump the child with the father when it's gotten into puberty.
Firstly, most women don't "dump" the child with the father, but rather sharia law in some countries allows fathers to get custody of their kid from a certain age on, regardless of whether the father has been in the child's life before or not, and often against the mother's will. Needless to say that in most cases the father then dumps the kid with some female relatives.
I've seen that happening many times. And, no, it is not "Islamic".
I hope you're not blaming men for having sex even though women agree to enjoy. Because many a time those men don't want abortions. Many a time it's the society around that woman that would promote abortions.
I am not blaming anyone. Personally, I have no issue with two consenting adults having sex, regardless of whether they are being married or not. I was simply pointing out what is the sad reality in many cases. And you are right, if abortions happen in such cases, they are usually due to society's pressure.
I am, however, blaming men who sleep with a woman and then refuse to assume responsibility in the case of a pregnancy. And unfortunately that happens quite often.
http//weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/797/fe1.htm
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Firstly, most women don't "dump" the child with the father, but rather sharia law in some countries allows fathers to get custody of their kid from a certain age on, regardless of whether the father has been in the child's life before or not, and often against the mother's will. Needless to say that in most cases the father then dumps the kid with some female relatives.
I've seen that happening many times. And, no, it is not "Islamic".
Well if women were smart, they'd dump the growing kids with the fathers... but they for some reason choose to hold on.
Yes from a certain age on... she can go get some more since quran 43... and go look after some orphans. She can remarry as according to quran 2432, she's got plenty of experience.
Against the mother's will??? Who on earth gives a damn about the mother's will over the god's will?
Seriously? How is it not islamic?
As far as I know... if the child stays with the mother... and the step father comes about... the likely hood of that child dying or being abused... is a reality
"Stepfathers abuse"
I am not blaming anyone. Personally, I have no issue with two consenting adults having sex, regardless of whether they are being married or not. I was simply pointing out what is the sad reality in many cases. And you are right, if abortions happen in such cases, they are usually due to society's pressure.
I am, however, blaming men who sleep with a woman and then refuse to assume responsibility in the case of a pregnancy. And unfortunately that happens quite often.
http//weekly.ahram.org.eg/2006/797/fe1.htm
"The ruling recognises El-Hennawi's claim to having had a secret urfi (customary) marriage with El-Fishawi even in the absence of documentation to prove it." -- that violates the quran 2235 and 425.
You can blame the woman and the woman's father for not teaching her enough, and the mother's father and mother etc etc.
"The first case of its kind to receive media attention across the Arab world, the Fishawi-Hennawi feud had shocked the public, especially after El-Fishawi -- the son of two high-profile actors, Farouq El-Fishawi and Somaya El-Alfi -- conceded having had an affair with El-Hennawi on the TV show El-Beit Beitak, having initially denied any connection with her."
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"There are in the Egyptian population 3.5 million girls over 35 years old who have not been married, and another 3.5 million over 20, not to mention 11 million unmarried men," he elaborates. "We have a marriage crisis, which together with the media-fuelled sexual need places the young in a deadlock." Many, he says, are in no financial or social position to marry."
You shall encourage those of you who are single to get married. They may marry the righteous among your male and female servants, if they are poor. GOD will enrich them from His grace. GOD is Bounteous, Knower.
And those who do not find marriage should refrain/be chaste until God enriches/suffices them from His grace/favour/blessing, and those who ask/wish/desire the destiny/fate/term (marriage) from what your rights owned/possessed, so write with them (contract), if you knew goodness in them, and give/bring them from God's property/possession/wealth which He gave you, and do not compel/force your young women/(F) youths on (to) the prostitution, if they (F) wanted/intended chastity, to desire the life the present's/worldly life's vanities/non-essentials, and who compels/forces them (F), so then God (is) from after their having been compelled/forced, forgiving, merciful.