Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace brother Mohamad, all,
Thank you Mohamad for your interesting post and for sharing your interesting theory. I will study it and reply soon. Right now I a have to rush because I am writing this from the Airport and my flight is going to be departing shortly.
Meanhwile, as requested by several members, I have summarized the findings on this thread in a new article. However, the article is in Arabic since I wanted to also test this understanding with Arabic speakers and interestingly, the arguments are much more compelling in Arabic
http//www.scribd.com/doc/30298535/%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%8A-%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A9-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%82%D8%AF%D8%B1
I would be interested in feedback from Arabic speakers on the forum.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful.
Peace Ayman, all.
Thank you for all your efforts. May God bless you.
Your understanding of the shahr ramadhan has certainly rubbed on me and that it has been about 4 to 5 years since I'm into this study. Your new article is surely something to look forward to reading. And although I'm not an arabic speaker I will take this as a sign that I should start learning into the language as well. Of course, we would appreciate this article to be in english by God's leave.
I am in the Philippines and a few minutes ago my son and I folded the world at the equator (0 degrees) and my country falls into the northern hemisphere but still close to the southern hemisphere.
Last year, I failed to witness the "scorching full moon" of July 7, 2009 since this is also the time that my daughter was born. It just missed my mind and apparently Satan's whisper was so strong that I'm unable to go out of the hospital to look at the moon. Tonight, June 26, 2010 is the "scorching full moon" here but I only got to see the moon at about close to 9 p.m. (today, June 26 2010 the moon should have risen at around 7 p.m. and with the eclipse running up to 845 p.m.) and I noticed the absence of the reddish hue already. Could it be because it has already risen up? Or could the absence of the reddish hue be due to our location in the hempishere?
This means that tonight I failed to see the moon rising up on the horizon as well as the eclipse. And this is my question Is it enough to see the full moon as a marker to fast? Or is it that we should be able to see the moon rising in its reddish glow to be able to say that we "witness" shahr ramadhan?" I have looked forward to this day since missing the shahr ramadhan in 2009 (the time I made the decision to fast) and the fasting but everything is God's will. There is always a reason for everything.
I would appreciate a response bro. It will help a lot in making the decision to fast tomorrow or not. By the way, my two sons (9 and 6 years old) and my daughter (7 years old) witnessed the full moon with me. Are they under any obligation to fast as well?
A response is really appreciated.
Peace.
Ramon jedi
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Peace all
And yes I am on Facebook too http//www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1654630457. There is no need to hide identity now since what I have been doing is already known here; though I'd still maintain that I am a nobody, I can guide no one even the ones I love and that I continue to learn from God.
It just hit me that witnessing the full moon is enough marker to fast
From Ayman's translation
- "shahr ramadhan" is when the reading was descended as a guidance for people and clarifications from the guidance and the criterion, so whomever witnesses "al-shahr", let him abstain it. And whomever was sick or traveling so a count of other days. The God wants to facilitate and not make it hard on you. And so complete the count and magnify The God for what He guided you and perhaps you would be thankful.
Or is it?
Thanks,
Ramon O0
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I quickly read it to see if there is a change of our understanding about of the night "alqadr" since our last exchange in November, 2004, page 3 of this thread.
I would like to read comments from other arabc speakers on your article.
You chose a relevant title for your article.It is a pleasure to read your articles.
Peace be with you all
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Salaam Ramon
Hereby some remarks related to your questions if I may.
This means that tonight I failed to see the moon rising up on the horizon as well as the eclipse. And this is my question Is it enough to see the full moon as a marker to fast? Or is it that we should be able to see the moon rising in its reddish glow to be able to say that we "witness" shahr ramadhan?" I have looked forward to this day since missing the shahr ramadhan in 2009 (the time I made the decision to fast) and the fasting but everything is God's will. There is always a reason for everything.
A red moon is not everywhere at the same day in the whole hemisphere.
In the Northern countries there is even during mid-summer seldom a real red moon.
So it seems to be better to follow the place where the Koran was sent down as an objective criterium for the timing of the fasting.
The hottest period of the year in Arabia is related to the summersolstice - this might go together in that region with a red moon.
So the first full moon after the summersolstice on the Northern Hemisphere seems to be relevant, it can be known all over the word by moon-calendars.
In an allegorical way all the believers all over the world witness this -shahr ramadan-.
This is an objective issue not depending on a personal experience. Mind the millions of believers who would miss the red moon because of a clouded day.
So also the believers who do not see the red moon in person should fast the -shahr ramadan-.I would appreciate a response bro. It will help a lot in making the decision to fast tomorrow or not. By the way, my two sons (9 and 6 years old) and my daughter (7 years old) witnessed the full moon with me. Are they under any obligation to fast as well?
God did not bring any hardship in the religion - verse 2278.
Verse 2184 states that the believers who are able to fast but do not fast should provide for the food of a poor person - this seems to imply that only the believers who are old enough to have a regular income and to engage into legal transactions - which is giving away money or food- should join the fast.
So your children are not obliged to fast, it seems.Salaam and ramadan kareem.
truthseeker171 -
please not that that the moon does not always keep the same distance from earth.
sometimes it is close and sometimes it is far.and that distance is grate about 15 degrees in difference.
it is important to know that the moon is full sometimes at a closer distance adn sometimes at a further distance.
for one cycle of distance the moon needs to make takes one year.exactly one year,i find that very strange.
Allah subhanahi wa taala tells us in the quran "wa qadarnahu manazilla hata ada kal erjun al kadeem" some people understand this as the regular moon phases.
but i think arjun this word means lantern. so the aya clearly states that we have given levels till it comes back as an old lantern.
the meaning is clear that this is a full moon with dimmed light ,in contrast to a full moon with a strong light.if it is close then the light is strong and if it far then the light of the full moon is dim.
so if we put that with the yearly sun cycle then we might find out that maybe when the moon is closest and at the same time it is full during that day,then we now that the coming shahr is ramadan ,please refer back to my previous post to see what i mean by shahr.
back to the moon .and we know those days when the moon is furthers form the earth we might see ashhur hurum for they last longer then two days.
.i will try to put that in drawing to explain what i mean.
salam. -
Peace sister Marie,
I quickly read it to see if there is a change of our understanding about of the night "alqadr" since our last exchange in November, 2004, page 3 of this thread.
I would like to read comments from other arabc speakers on your article.
You chose a relevant title for your article.
It is a pleasure to read your articles.It is great to hear from you and thank you for reading the Arabic article and your kind evaluation. You inspired and contibuted to several of the points in the article. I remembered and experienced the following amazing signs last night with my family
084.016
YUSUFALI So I do call to witness the ruddy glow of Sunset;
PICKTHAL Oh, I swear by the afterglow of sunset,
SHAKIR But nay! I swear by the sunset redness,Right after sunset we went out to witness the scorching full moon. We looked in the direction where the sunsets and saw the red afterglow of the sunset.
084.017
YUSUFALI The Night and its Homing;
PICKTHAL And by the night and all that it enshroudeth,
SHAKIR And the night and that which it drives on,We turned to the directly opposite direction where the darkest part of the sky is and where darkness seems to be spreading from.
084.018
YUSUFALI And the Moon in her fullness
PICKTHAL And by the moon when she is at the full,
SHAKIR And the moon when it grows full,From that direction where darkness spreads, after a few minutes, we saw the scorching full-moon slowly rising.
http//i47.tinypic.com/2nqe0yh.jpg
Living and experiencing those signs was amazing.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace all
I saw the red moon last night and thought what an unusual red and big moon. I did not think much of it till I read this thread. So if what I have read is correct, we are suppose to fast for 3 to 5 days from seeing the moon? Can someone explain the significants in small bullet points as a summary? There is so much I need to learn its a little mind blowing. Thanks in advance.
May Allah guide us to the truth.
Peace
Hope
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Peace all
I saw the red moon last night and thought what an unusual red and big moon. I did not think much of it till I read this thread. So if what I have read is correct, we are suppose to fast for 3 to 5 days from seeing the moon? Can someone explain the significants in small bullet points as a summary? There is so much I need to learn its a little mind blowing. Thanks in advance.
May Allah guide us to the truth.
Peace
Hope
there are only 144 pages, just go thorough them quickly to have a good understanding!
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Peace all
I saw the red moon last night and thought what an unusual red and big moon. I did not think much of it till I read this thread. So if what I have read is correct, we are suppose to fast for 3 to 5 days from seeing the moon? Can someone explain the significants in small bullet points as a summary? There is so much I need to learn its a little mind blowing. Thanks in advance.
May Allah guide us to the truth.
Peace
ONly read this artical no need to go through all pages.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
Hope
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Peace, about 140 of them are circular arguments. But thanks for pointing out the obvious
obvious is the most difficult but you are welcome!
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but she must know all the arguments not just that one post!
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She OR he what type of optical your wearing??
sorry to offend you good sir, it was just a typo!
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please we are not yet sure as when is ramadan.
we have to be clear on this.
i think the matter is in its simplicity.
we have to observe the moon again.
and see more proof from the quran.
the proof we take must be obvious,no (taaweel)
we still need to figure out what is shahr and we need to figure out when is ramadan.
remmember only the quran will do,as for other sources ,i find difficulty to take .
thank you and salam.
the quran says that ramadan has bayinat so it is more then one sign.so it is not just the moon phase or full moon or no moon.we neeed more proof for ramadan. as for those signs and what they are we need to find from the quran.
give it more time ,allah is mercifull and he will show us in shaa. -
Salaam Hope
I saw the red moon last night and thought what an unusual red and big moon. I did not think much of it till I read this thread. So if what I have read is correct, we are suppose to fast for 3 to 5 days from seeing the moon? Can someone explain the significants in small bullet points as a summary? There is so much I need to learn its a little mind blowing. Thanks in advance.
The period of abstention is related to the Arabic word -shahr-.
Verse 2185 states that the duration of a full moon is relevant for the length of the period of abstention.- ... those of you who witness this full moon shall fast therein ... -
The plural-form of the word days relating to the abstention mentioned in verse 2184 requires a number of more than two.
The duration of the full-moon illusion with at least 98% coverage is three days.This seems to be a compelling quranic ruling with a clear unambiguous time-frame.
An abstention out of the time-frame of the duration of the full moon is not suggested in the relevant verses.
There seems not to be another verse that could put this aside in a compelling way.Other related verses and comments can be read at
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600410.0Salaam and ramadan kareem
truthseeker171 -
Salaam Mohamad
the quran says that ramadan has bayinat so it is more then one sign.so it is not just the moon phase or full moon or no moon.we neeed more proof for ramadan. as for those signs and what they are we need to find from the quran.
Verse 2185 - The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong). And whosoever of you is present, let him fast the month .... -
Pickthall - between brackets is added.The word -bayinat- relates to the Koran not to the word -ramadan-.
The Koran states that one should abstain the -shahr ramadan- when it is witnessed.
A full moon can be witnessed and abstained - other readings would be rather illogical.
We can not witness a whole month and go back into time and abstain the month.
The period between the two -hilal- when the moon is absent does not seem to be relevant either. We can not witness the absence of the moon in an unambiguous way that we would be able to know the period of fasting - most of the day the moon is absent.
Furthermore verse 2189 informs the believers that the -hilal- is a timing-device for the people and the hadj.
The -hilal- has a general function as a timing-device for personal affairs and the -hilal- is a timing-device for the hadj - one of the two communal Islamic events.
The Quran is complete and fully detailed.
Compelling seems to be the absence in this verse of the other communal Islamic event the communal abstention, so we can conclude that the -hilal- is not relevant for the duration of the period of abstention.Salaam
truthseeker171