Is gender-mixed salat in the Mosque forbidden in The Quran?
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You are just a propogator of Isreali Propoganda.
Most of the Madrassas are doing fine job, only very few in Pakhtunkhawa are teaching this 72 virgins lesson that too on backing of saudi arabia and Iran
who are you blinding to? we hear this 72 virgin nonsense in every other mosque, even here in UK!
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When Asra Q. Nomani and other women attempted to pray at Virginia?s notorious ?9/11 mosque,? an explosive scene ensued. Inside the protest movement dividing Muslim Americans.
FALLS CHURCH, Va.?Over the years, the Dar Al-Hijrah Islamic Center, a mosque in suburban Virginia, down the road from a Sears, has welcomed some noteworthy congregants alleged Fort Hood shooter Maj. Nidal Hasan, some of the 9/11 hijackers, and Yemeni al-Qaeda cleric Anwar al-Awlaki?said to be an inspiring figure to both Hasan and alleged Times Square bomber Faisal Shahzad.
This past weekend, though, six Muslim women and I received a very different kind of greeting. As part of a grassroots civil rights movement we call ?Pray In,? we walked through the front door of the mosque instead of a dingy back door designated for women. In the cavernous main hall we attempted to exercise our Islamic right to pray behind the men, instead of in the secluded ?sisters? section.? Some of us wore pink head scarves, the color we've chosen to symoblize our "pink pray-in" movement of Islamic feminism.
?Get out of here!? a man from the congregation yelled, lunging toward us, before being restrained by other men.
Attempting to desegregate Dar Ul Hijra, known in law enforcement circles as ?the 9/11 mosque,? is significant. The strict ideology of gender segregation we are challenging is part of a broader, problematic interpretation of Islam that I believe often incites violence against civilians, suicide bombings, and terrorism.
We began our fight in February by challenging the segregation at the Islamic Center of Washington, a mosque with close ties to the Saudis and the strict Wahhabi ideology of Islam. But ever since I moved to the Washington, D.C., area in 2007, I have wanted to attend ?the 9/11 mosque,? in order to better understand what it preaches. I was afraid, but I overcame my hesitation after organizer Fatima Thompson, a convert living in the area, pulled together a group of women activists using Facebook.
The angry, violent response we received at the Virginia mosque is indicative of how threatened some men are by the presence of women in ?their? space. Standing in the front of about 100 men, many of them agitated, the imam, Shakir Elsayed, told the men, ?We have women who want to make a point.? Naively, we had expected a friendly welcome. Just weeks earlier, Elsayed had told a town hall meeting on women?s space in mosques that he invited women to pray in the main hall, but they preferred the privacy of the balcony. A few days after these remarks, Thompson called Elsayed to inform him that a group of women were planning to accept his offer and pray at his mosque. ?Go ahead,? he said.
But the day of our protest, he demanded we pray with our backs against the wall. ?The best rows for the women are the last rows,? he said, repeating a hadith, or saying of the prophet Muhammad, that some scholars, such as UCLA law professor Khaled Abou El Fadl, have refuted as inauthentic. Thompson bravely spoke up, referencing a hadith that recommends continuous lines without much space separating prayer rows. It was a modern day moment in the ?hadith wars? that have plagued Muslim communities since the death of the prophet Muhammad Muslims trying to establish authority and legitimacy through the supposed words and actions of Muhammad.
We inched forward?rather than backwards?but still stood about 10 feet behind the men, joining the prayer as it started. Before the last prostration, shouting broke out behind us and a group of men, including the mosque?s head of security, yelled at one of the women from our group, Ify Okoye, a Nigerian-American convert. They pushed her and she fled the main hall, worried about her safety. (Not long ago, Okoye courageously wrote a blog post protesting the "penalty box" behind which women are expected to pray at the Islamic Center of Washington.)
The prayers complete, men surrounded the women in our group, some of us still sitting on the carpet. ?Get up! Get up!? they shouted. Elsayed walked by, charging us with ?fitna,? a loaded word in Muslim communities that refers to people who cause conflict. It can be grounds for killing another Muslim. A member of the congregation responded, ?Go! Go! Go! You are not allowed here!?
Elsayed then told the men, ?This is what we talked about in the khutbah (sermon) yesterday ? They are among those people aligned with Satan and want to influence 1 billion Muslims.? We knew how significant that statement could be. We considered it a verbal threat, giving men grounds by which to assault us. In March 2010, a Saudi cleric said it was acceptable to kill Muslims?like us?who accept gender mixing.
Mosque officials called local Fairfax County police officers who arrived at the scene, telling us we had to leave or face arrest. Outside the gates, the scent of nearby honeysuckle bushes wafting toward us, Officer S.P. Regan handed Thompson and me trespassing notices that said we weren?t allowed back at the mosque. Our case became police report No. 20101350237.
Two nights later, after the shock of the event surpassed, Okoye filed assault and battery charges with Fairfax County Magistrate Claude Bradshaw, against the man who pushed her. She has a June 30 court date. Thompson and I filed complaints against the imam, Elsayed, for intimidation and assault. Our complaints are on file with the court.
Today, we are filing an additional complaint with the Council on American Islamic Relations, a Washington, D.C.-based organization that has built a reputation protecting the rights of women to wear head scarves, or hijab. In 2005, CAIR and other Muslim organizations released a report on making mosques ?women friendly,? asserting the right of women to pray in the main hall, behind men, but without a partition segregating them. The report urged mosque leaders to welcome women without "fear and anger." It recommended to leaders "Make available designated space for women in the main prayer hall."
Separation of church and state statutes can perhaps protect mosques from the reach of American non-discrimination laws, but I?m certain that the strides we made at ?the 9/11 mosque? will be part of a revolution, reclaiming Islam from the likes of Maj. Nidal Hasan and Anwar al-Awlaki.
Offering us some hope, before our contentious prayer in Virginia, two male worshippers turned around to discreetly express their feelings; they gave us ?thumbs up? signs. But then they disappeared anonymously into the lines, leaving us to fend for ourselves.
http//www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-05-17/showdown-at-the-mosque/Peace,
Respect.This is it! This is what I'm talking about! This sort a thing makes me truly not only angry but honestly outraged! I am truly, really mad at these man who not only act like idiots, pardon my language, but I believe they are transformed from way before the middle ages. These men should be deported from the States and banned for life! Right now! Not today, toda's 24 hours long, they need, they must be deported and banend forever!
This is why I keep fighting for emigrating to The West, this is why I wanna get involved in the film industry, this is why I'm staying here for the past three years and waiting, I've been waiting and waiting and I truly don't understand how long do I have to wait!? I wanna expose them, I wanna build mosques where men AND women can not only pray together but where a woman can lead the prayer.
Yes, I would have no problem with a woman leading a prayer. Because when I pray, I pray, I'm focused on the prayer, I'm not interested in ANYTHING else nor ANYONE else. Why should I be when God can give me so much more? In fact, I want to pray behind a woman and prove to these men and men like them, that men and women are equal and that not everything regarding men and women is about sex, flirting or erotica. My God, has the world finally arrived here? Is this our best? This is the best what society can do????? No way.
I support those brave women who stepped up forward literally and metaphorically, I support them and may God bless them, give them more better health, may God extend their Knowledge and give them even more courage and patience. We need more women like that and I will not rest until I may some changes regarding this, God willing. May God help us all.
Peace.
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My Dream Mosque Equality at Last
I was exchanging messages with my friend R the other day over our concerns about men running our Mosque boards, councils, finances and Sunday school programs, and the lack of female representation in the 'big picture' decisions. We decided that change was almost impossible so we came up with this brilliant idea why not create our own mosque from scratch?
Our Mosque however will be nontraditional. Men won't be the sole decision makers. Women will have equal access and say on all matters concerning everyone.
Mosque Layout
Main Prayer Space Our first order of business will be to reconstruct the layout of the mosque. The main prayer hall will encompass both men and women. They will be able to visibly see the Imam and participate during the congregation in the same space as the Imam. There will be an overflow space available (first come, first serve) which will serve both genders (which will be equipped with screens that transmit the sermon and prayer services). In addition, the prayer hall will be high tech, equipped with screens for audio and video presentations.
http//1.bp.blogspot.com/_XiYt58576QI/S6zLnSLVouI/AAAAAAAAH3g/xHB8ip5YN-4/s320/Mosque+Layout.jpg
Women would pray on one side, and men another side with a fair distance in between. I spoke to Hijabman (hijabman.com) about distance issues and he mentioned a knee barrier in between. I don't see a reason why women must be behind men (I am sick of staring at men's boxers!). Side by side works better to keep modesty and equal distance from the Imam. I would like to pray in the first few lines for a change.
Also, the same prayer space will eliminate disturbances found in traditional mosques where women and children are secluded in a basement or back room.
Accommodations Special accommodations will be available. For example, Braille Qurans, Large-print Qurans, chairs for seating, and permanent ramps for easy access to all mosque facilities will be available. Also, the parking lot will be equipped with handicap parking spaces to be utilized by members of the community. Additional accommodations will be available upon request!
Nursery The nursery will be free of charge for all children and will be run by parent volunteers. The nursery will give parents with small children the freedom to use Mosque facilities without disturbing others and boring their own children.
Kitchen Food is an important aspect of the Muslim community so naturally a safe, highly equipped kitchen is needed. The most important aspect of this kitchen is the ventilation system because we don't want to end up with a Mosque smelling like curry.
Dining/Cafe area The dining area will be equipped to hold 200 people for big celebrations such as Eid parties or Ramadan dinners. Recycling bins will be distributed throughout to maintain the greenness of the Mosque. There will also be coffee/refreshment center for families to socialize between classes or while children are in class.
School Facilities The Mosque will have an area for either a weekend or full-time Islamic program.
Gym/Play area A mosque is more than a place to worship God in the West, it's also a place for the community to come together. A gym and play area for young children and adults interested would make the Mosque a fun experience for the entire family. The space also provides opportunities to hold different classes such as karate, wrestling, dance lessons, etc.
Community Garden The garden will be run by Mosque volunteers and a place where people of the local community (Muslim and Non-Muslim) will get to enjoy. This can extend to a weekly Farmer's market when large enough!
Other services such as interfaith services, funeral services, employment opportunities, food shelters, etc could be implemented with sufficient volunteers and funds.
Internal Organization
Elected Board Non-profit status which requires democratically elected board members and officers. It also assures that the members of the Mosque will have the final say on how the Mosque will run unlike many of the traditional mosques that are privately owned and are run like a dictatorship! In addition, the bylaws will note a 50/50 gender divide to ensure equality and representation of all genders!
Full-Time staff Volunteer run organizations means sloppy work and non-professionalism. With staff on the payroll with precise job descriptions, the organization will run much smoother. (read accountability!)
Imam The spiritual leader of the Mosque must be well acquainted with current Muslim issues in the U.S. and a fluent English speaker. In addition, the Imam should have credentials in Islamic studies.
Counseling Services The mosque can contract with a family counselor for Muslim couples in need of counseling or other individuals with need for counseling. The service will be provided at a minimal fee.
**I realize that these are big dreams and my design is elementary, but there is no shame in starting small. I would like to hear your ideas.
Let the revolution begin
http//organicmuslimah.blogspot.com/2010/03/my-dream-mosque-equality-at-last.html
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Leyna
That was what I was talking about.afridi
Totally nonsense, do not tell us about the culture of "Pakhtunkhawa", Pakistan is burning because of some rigid Pashtuns, former Russians and Arabs, not only Pakistan but whole the world.And when it is said to them, Do not make mischief in
the land, they say We are but peace-makers.
Now surely they themselves are the mischief makers,
but they do not perceive.
(Al-Quran, Surah Al-Baqarah, Verses 11-12)
The Madrassaas most of them are doing fine job, they donot produce terrorists, only few of them are involved, most of them are located in Pakhtunkhawa that too which are being sponsored by different countries for their own purposes, Like Iran and, Saudi Arabia to have supremacy in Islamic world, that has nothing to do with Quran and ISlam,
I can debate with you on this specific subject of 72 virgins nonsense...,Wow raja so really don?t know those fanatics called Taliban witch you called pukhtoon came from madares in Punjabhmm and sepahe sahaba , sepahe Mohammed humm they are all pukhtoon too nice one keep blaming.
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Peace,
Respect.Sister Leyna, I support you 100,000% and I would just like to ad that even though the walls will be white, for better lighting, I'd like to see all the carpets green, it will give the illusion of being in the garden, just a thought.
I'd also like so suggest that no words or letters of any kind, language be present on the wall so that a person who is praying is truly focused on the prayer/reading. Big and clean windows is soemthign that must be taken care of.
I support this, you got my vote.
Is this about a mosque which is already built and you're gonna change it or are you talking about a land which needs to be bought and mosque which needs to be built?
Just geting informed.God bless you.
Peace. -
Peace, Alen
This was not written by me. But you can follow the link I posted and write to the lady who posted this on her blog.
I also love her mosque garden project, that's really nice! And a good way to get people to work together on something beneficial and productive.
http//organicmuslimah.blogspot.com/2010/05/mosque-garden-my-2-year-project.html
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Leyna
Mosque Layout
Main Prayer Space Our first order of business will be to reconstruct the layout of the mosque. The main prayer hall will encompass both men and women. They will be able to visibly see the Imam and participate during the congregation in the same space as the Imam. There will be an overflow space available (first come, first serve) which will serve both genders (which will be equipped with screens that transmit the sermon and prayer services). In addition, the prayer hall will be high tech, equipped with screens for audio and video presentations.
!mam in the front, Ladies on the right and Men on the left or vice versa, with a barrie betweem them, offcourse this is a nice lay out by that lady you mention, but it is far away from what you want, or is it you want to start with this to gain your goal.
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Peace
The topic is " Is gender -mixed salat in the Mosque forbidden in The Qur'an" ?
To get the answer , first define what salat is .
What makes you people think that the congregational prayers commonly performed in mosques by muhammadan = Salat ?
I for one do not think that "The Bending Over and kneeling rituals is Salat . As for gender mixed prayers , why would the Qur'an forbid it ?
The Qur'an clearly advises us to hold fast to the rope of god altogether , not just men or women but Together !
Peace
almarh0m
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almarhoom
What makes you people think that the congregational prayers commonly performed in mosques by muhammadan = Salat ?
there is no such thing as Muhammadans..don't try to force Christain missionaries name on MUslims.
Salat is Physical as well spirtiual and that is proven from Quran, I think we have alraedy discussed this in previous thread long ago. -
afridi
Wow raja so really don?t know those fanatics called Taliban witch you called pukhtoon came from madares in Punjabhmm and sepahe sahaba , sepahe Mohammed humm they are all pukhtoon too nice one keep blaming.
No it is not I who am blaming, but you who doesnot like to hear the truth
Who is Mullah Umar? Where did he studied, He is an ethnic Pashtun from the Hotak tribe, which is part of the larger Ghilzai branch,After he was disabled, Omar studied and taught in a madrasah, or Islamic seminary, in the Pakistani border city of Quetta. He was reportedly a mullah at a village madrasah near the Afghan city of Kandahar.
BAit-Ullah Meshud a Pusthoon
HAkeem Ullah a Pusthon
Jalal Din Haqani a Pushton
Hikmatyaar a Pushtoonall the top leadership of Taliban is Pushtoon and most of them studied in NWFP.
and Al-Qaida leadership is from Arab and former russian states as i mentioned above. -
almarhoom
there is no such thing as Muhammadans..don't try to force Christain missionaries name on MUslims.
Salat is Physical as well spirtiual and that is proven from Quran, I think we have alraedy discussed this in previous thread long ago.Peace Raaajah
You can deny all you like that there is no such thing as " Muhammadans " , Muhammad worshippers , and Muslim-Stone-Lovers , but the reality is just that ....real fact for people who sees .
I am so glad to have a genious such as yourself on the forum who had concluded that "Salat" is physical as well well spritual . What I asked was "Define Salat" and is Salat = "The Bending over and Kneeling Rituals " ? . Please provide comprensive evidence for your conclusion .
Thank You
almarh0m
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almarhoom
I am so glad to have a genious such as yourself on the forum who had concluded that "Salat" is physical as well well spritual . What I asked was "Define Salat" and is Salat = "The Bending over and Kneeling Rituals " ? . Please provide comprensive evidence for your conclusion .
Thank You
almarh0m
Dear, last time when we were discussing the subject, I said if you are Ismaeili why don't say so? and you got a bit angry at me, I am searching for that thread, if found it will be easier to continue, otherwise I will start a new thread because I too want to clear confusion regarding Salaat being spirtual, Physical, both or some thing else according to Quran.
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Rasul Hamsa
Oh is that so...
What dress will they wear in Masajid the women, because according to you and Leyana as it fits them, it is freedom.. this will lead us to where i pointed out in my early post.that is a lame logic, used by Quran aloners often, show me where it is in Quran? You have started a new custom, you have to provide evidence for it from Quran? Show me verse Exclusively allowing mix gender prayers in Masaajids? simple I will have no objection, infact no one would have after that.
I have studied in co-education schools and my teachers was mostly a female, teaching mix gender, therefore lady Imam is not a taboo for me as you are trying to paint, but I cannot forget the remarks of my different class mates when we are senior high school about the female teachers, we talked about their dressings their body parts and even enjoyed their thoughts in bed at night.
I still remeber that Mauzana in Amina Waduds prayer, wearing high heel shoes, with a tight fitted upper, and without a "Dopata", I confess it would have been very hard for me to concenterate on any thing else.
Now come on don't just start attacking me with all those booos and baaas, it is just natrual and if some one disagrees either she is woman or too old.I am neither a woman nor too old, you need to learn how to control yourself.
Rasul Hamsa rotfl
and where exactly is it allowed rotfl
What do you mean and where is it allowed? You are not supposed to forbid things which God has not forbidden...