Jesus, Virgin Births, Miracles, Symbolisms.
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What is not clear?
1919
He said, "Only I am a Messenger (from) your Lord, that I bestow on you a son pure."
She said, "How can be for me a son when not has touched me a man and not I am baghiyyan?and after that , what happened? did she conceive ? or god gave his command to the natirel process?
this messenger told her a revelation that is what alllah said, it is easy, and the matter is decreed.so , what you can understand here, what is the matter decreed ? the naturel process of conception, or just by magic a sperme will be growing in her to foem a foetus ?
see , this messenger is the key.another point
why allah said this verse ?
Such was Jesus, son of Mary, and this is the truth of the matter in which they doubt.1934what doubt if he was talking about virgin birth? they already belkieve in virgin birth, so the story has to be different for them to don't believe.
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Salaaman bro,
what do you mean come on !!! Where did the quran say Isa didn't have a father, and where in the quran , did it say Miriam was virgin when she conceived ? to the contrary, the messenger of Allah told her he was gonna make her a baby ( in the quran the rules to make a baby with a woman, you first have to marry her etc.. than sleep with her than she conceived the baby ) and
in this case, it is a messenger ofgod who married her. Where did the quran say Isa didn't have a father
the alternat explanation, is the messenger o god is an angel, and in this case it doesn't make sense, angels don't conceive , and marriage is between man and woman , so this explanation es ruled out , the third explanation, is Rouh is the messenger of god, and this is ruled out , because Rouh is the command, Where did the quran say Isa didn't have a father
brought by the messenger, according to logic of how thingd go in the quran, and the only messenger of that time, is Zakariah, this explanation, people don't like it, even though , it is the closest to logic and to what make sense, ???
Zakariah was a rabbi Where did the quran say Isa didn't have a father
before he get the news and becoming a messenger of god, that is what explain , he appreard to her a man in respect, Where did the quran say Isa didn't have a father
propably, ???
he shaved that rabbi's beard Where did the quran say Isa didn't have a father
and took out the garments rituels etc.. o Where did the quran say Isa didn't have a father
and became a good looking man, Where did the quran say Isa didn't have a father
and himself becoming a messenger, and that explain also why Mary was surprised and get scared, for she didn't know he was elevated to the status of a messenger of god, and that is why he told he I AM A MESSENGER OF GOD , and she believed, that is why god say , SADAKAT KALIMAT RABIHA, she believed god's words etc... But "I am a messenger of Allah" is not the word of Rabbiha
there is these 3 possibilities
the one that makes sense to me is Zakariah is the father of Yahya and Isa oif you see the caracter of Yahya, and Isa , are the same since childood, Yahya also speaks in the cradle?
so even genetically, they're too close, both , allah said about them' peace when they born, peace when they die and peace when they ressurect ) , Is this means they are GENETICALLY same?
and they were both with wisdom since childhood and they were both prophets hmm
May Allah open our hearts to understand and accept the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
and after that , what happened? did she conceive ? or god gave his command to the natirel process?
Yes, read the next verses...
1921 He said, "Thus; said your Lord, 'It for Me easy, and so that We will make him a sign for the humankind and a mercy from Us.
1922 So she conceived...What we know about the natural process and physics involved; most see the human body, I see microscopic 4 bit chemical programs called life with precise instructions IF THEN ELSE logic, add water, grows and divides/copy command, repairs itself/error correcting code, etc...
why allah said this verse ?
Such was Jesus, son of Mary, and this is the truth of the matter in which they doubt.1934what doubt if he was talking about virgin birth? they already belkieve in virgin birth, so the story has to be different for them to don't believe.
No, they (her people followers of the book not Christians) and others doubted 1927-30 same as many doubt today.
Peace!
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Salaaman LB,
All Humans comes from male an femele ( including Isa)
O people, We created you from a male and female, and We made you into nations and tribes 4913
345
345 When the angels said O Marium, Allah gives you glad tidings of a word from Him. His name is the Messiah, Eisa, son of Marium. Honorable in this world and in the Hereafter, and from among those who are made close.
How about "Kalima", how they born?
All messengers had wives and offspring, (including Isa )
And We have sent messengers before you and We have made for them mates and offspring 1338
Remember "Rusulun" is Nakira, I am not sure whether Eisa (AS) is also Rasool or Rasool Allah or Al Rasool, if you know, please get be the aayat.
All messengers had brothers, fathers and offspring ( including Isa in this verse)
( ( ( ( (
And such was Our argument that We gave Abraham over his people We raise the degree of whom We please. Your Lord is Wise, Knowledgeable.
And We granted him Isaac and Jacob, both of whom We guided and Noah We guided from before
and from his progeny is David, and Solomon, and Job, and Joseph, and Moses, and Aaron. It is such that We recompense the good doers.
And Zachariah and John, and Jesus, and Elias all were from the upright.
And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot; and each We have preferred over the worlds.
And from their fathers and their progeny and their brothers We have also chosen; and We guided them to a straight path.
684-87"And from their fathers" does it include all mentioned above? If so, how about "And EACH we have preferred over the worlds" referring to in the previous aayat? And "And ALL were from the upright" is also referring to all the above in above that aayat?
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaaman LB,
Can someone prouve that Isa was born of a virgin ? is there a clear statement that she conceived while she was a virgin ?
Can YOU prove that Eisa (AS) was NOT born of a virgin? Is there a CLEAR STATEMENT that she conceived while she was NOT a virgin?
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaaman LB,
and after that , what happened? did she conceive ? or god gave his command to the natirel process?
this messenger told her a revelation that is what alllah said, it is easy, and the matter is decreed.so , what you can understand here, what is the matter decreed ? the naturel process of conception, or just by magic a sperme will be growing in her to foem a foetus ?
see , this messenger is the key.I understand it as follows
Yes she conceive but when Rooh was blown into her/him. I know, you must be thinking why I said her/him, let me explain you my understanding on the same.
Women has XX chromosomes
Men has XY chromosomesAnd X + X chromosomes makes a baby girl
And X + Y chromosomes makes a baby boyWhen Marium conceives without a touch of a men, she has to give birth to a baby girl because she has only X + X chromosomes. But that was not the case, she gave birth to a baby boy, how?
Allah said
2191
2191 And the one who protected her chastity, so We blew into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.
"Feeha" means "Into HER"
6612
6612 And Mary, daughter of Imran, who maintained the chastity of her private part, so We blew into him/it from Our Spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Books; and she was of those who were dutiful.
"Feehi" means "Into HIM / IT"
From this I understand that Marium was having X + Y chromosomes, and she gave birth to a baby boy. In this way, there is nothing against 'Sunnat Allah'.
Furthermore, just to make her go through all this process, she was treated differently as follows
337
337 So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, he found provisions with her. He said O Marium, from where did you get this? She said It is from Allah, for Allah provides for whom He wishes without reckoning.
1- Zachariah (AS) was given KAFAALAT of Marium. He takes care of her as his own child , how can he be a father of Eisa (AS)?
2- EVERY TIME Zachariah (AS) enter upon her, he found RIZQ with her.
3- Zachariah (AS) asked her where did you get this , he don't know? even though he was a care taker of her.
4- Marium said "It is from Allah", she didn't say, this is what we cook today, or this is what you brought for us, etc, etc..
This clearly means to me that Marium was treated specially. And also look at this point
4171
4171 O people of the Book, do not overstep in your system, nor say about Allah except the truth. Eisa, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of Allah and His word cast it down to Mary and a Spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and do not say Trinity. Cease, for it is better for you. Allah is only One god, be He glorified that He should have a son! To Him is all that is in the heavens and the earth; and Allah is enough as a Caretaker.
Moderators please correct in Arabic Text "AlQaaha ila Marium" NOT "AlQayha" 4171
It is said " " What means "Alqaa" to you? Look at 2019
2019
2019 He said Cast it down O Moses.Why Alqaa?
Another point
5110
5110 Allah said O Eisa, son of Mary, recall My blessings upon you and your mother, that I supported you with the Holy Spirit; you spoke to the people in the cradle and middle-age; and I taught you the Book and the wisdom, and the Torah, and the Injeel; and you would create from clay the shape of a bird, then blow into it and it becomes a bird with My permission; and you would heal the blind and the leaper with My permission; and you would bring out the dead with My permission. And I have restrained the Children of Israel from you, that you came to them with proofs; but those who rejected among them said This is clearly magic!
Why Allah asked Eisa (AS) to recall His blessings upon HIM and HIS MOTHER only? Why not his father ?
Now the most important part
2350
2350 And We made the son of Marium and his mother a sign, and We gave them refuge on high ground, a place for resting and with a flowing stream.
"Aayat" means something unique or nothing is similar to aayat, like the aayaats of AlQuraan/AlKitaab is unique, tree, skies, sun, moon, shadow, air, water, everything is unique and they are not similar to anything, so they are aayaats.
Sorry for the long post.
Hope this may be of some help inshaAllah to you or to others.
May Allah guide us all in His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
loxbox
Can someone prouve that Isa was born of a virgin ? is there a clear statement that she conceived while she was a virgin ?
Is the following verse not a proof?
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp26%203.47.gif
walam yamsasn basharun? and (has) not touch(ed) me any human?
even a kid can understand for what purpose Hazrat Mariam uttered these words, she would have been touched by many humans since her child hood but for "specific purpose" (inter-course) no one had touched her, as it is mentioned in the Ayat.
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loxbox
Is the following verse not a proof?http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/003.%20Aale%20Imran/temp26%203.47.gif
walam yamsasn basharun? and (has) not touch(ed) me any human?
even a kid can understand for what purpose Hazrat Mariam uttered these words, she would have been touched by many humans since her child hood but for "specific purpose" (inter-course) no one had touched her, as it is mentioned in the Ayat.
You saying even a kid can understand this as a virgin !
but of course, he wasn't married when she get the news, that is a part of her belief in kalimat rabiha, she get the news even before marriage, and this is a sign , but " Lam Yamssasni Bashar " doesn't translate N oone touched me, but " I am not married."
because Lams is only for married people.
exemple
(Lam Yamssassni Bashar), meaning sexual touching by husband to his wife after marriageThose who had estranged their women, then they retracted what they had said, they shall free a slave before they have sexual contact between them. 583
If he cannot find any, then he shall fast two consecutive months before any sexual contact between them 584
or you have had sexual contact with the women
As you see , she was talking about LAMS, meaning marriage, and god god said that is easy for me.4the easy part isn't the sperm, but the marriage , the way to make her LAMAS in marriage.
that is why Allah said in twi verses, AHSANAT , and Ahsanat means married,
for a man , it is Ankaha
for a woman, allah don't use the word Ankahat, but Ahsanat . -
loxbox
but of course, he wasn't married when she get the news, that is a part of her belief in kalimat rabiha, she get the news even before marriage, and this is a sign , but " Lam Yamssasni Bashar " doesn't translate N oone touched me, but " I am not married."
brother, I really don't understand what you are trying to say
Who is this "he"?
and which word means "married"?For sake of debate let us assume that she was saying "how can I bore a Child? when I am not married?
So you agree that she was virgin till that time? or like most of Jews you believe she was having illicit relations with others?
If she was not married till the time of these Ayat and she was not having any illicit relationship as many Jews claim
then she was virgin before the birth of Isaa (As).
Now when the time of birth of Issa (AS) came read from the post of Muhmmad Khan2191 And the one who protected her chastity, so We blew into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.
"Feeha" means "Into HER"If the birth of Issa (AS) was through normal process then why say "we made her and her son a sign for the world"?
Again look at Muhammad Khan posting the following Ayat
337 So her Lord accepted her a good acceptance, and made her grow into a good growth, and charged Zachariah with her. Every time Zachariah entered upon her in the temple enclosure, he found provisions with her. He said O Marium, from where did you get this? She said It is from Allah, for Allah provides for whom He wishes without reckoning.
Any one who has to get married or is to bear a child is not Isolated, and Husband is more likely to care of her wife (if there is any) rather than father.
By logic and by common sense both your argument is weak.
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loxbox
brother, I really don't understand what you are trying to sayWho is this "he"?
and which word means "married"?For sake of debate let us assume that she was saying "how can I bore a Child? when I am not married?
So you agree that she was virgin till that time? or like most of Jews you believe she was having illicit relations with others?
If she was not married till the time of these Ayat and she was not having any illicit relationship as many Jews claim
then she was virgin before the birth of Isaa (As).
Now when the time of birth of Issa (AS) came read from the post of Muhmmad KhanIf the birth of Issa (AS) was through normal process then why say "we made her and her son a sign for the world"?
Again look at Muhammad Khan posting the following Ayat
Any one who has to get married or is to bear a child is not Isolated, and Husband is more likely to care of her wife (if there is any) rather than father.By logic and by common sense both your argument is weak.
If the birth of Issa (AS) was through normal process then why say "we made her and her son a sign for the world"?
They are sign, because she abolished sisterhood, as a nun, and he refuted all religions of birth of a virgin and all the myths that come with it.the questin, is who is the messenger of god who was talking to her, and who told her i am to give you a child ? if not the husband than who was he ? remember Rouh is command, and rooh never been described as an angel, and god said he send angels and humans as messengers, but rooh is no angel, so who is the messneger of god who spoke to her .?
when she said that she was not married, it's obvious that she was a virgin, but after that the matter was decreed ! what matter ? for her to go through the process, or just get the child like magic ? !!!!!who was the messenger of god who was speaking to her?
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I generaly avoid going into debates. So instead of interpreting I will just post a verse wich to me seems as if Adam didn't have a human father.
359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him be and he was.
So it says similar to that of Adam. Not the same since Adam didn't have mothr like Jeus did.
Thanks
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I generaly avoid going into debates. So instead of interpreting I will just post a verse wich to me seems as if Adam didn't have a human father.
359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him be and he was.
So it says similar to that of Adam. Not the same since Adam didn't have mothr like Jeus did.
Thanks
It's actually the contrary, the verse 359 confirm the opposite of what you're thinking, it confirms that Jesus came from sperm, because sperm if formed from the minerals of the earth that travel into the body through the food to form the sperm. we are all created like adam, from dust and than god gave the command be , and we were. took 9 months process for this Be and We are. read these verses to understand why god said about jesus that he is just like everyone else !
O people, if you are in doubt as to the resurrection, then We have created you from dust, then from a seed, then from an embryo, then from a fetus developed and undeveloped so that We make it clear to you. And We settle in the wombs what We wish to an appointed time, then We bring you out a child 225
He is the One who has created you from dust, then from a seed, then from an embryo, then He brings you out as a child, then He lets you reach your maturity, then you become old; and some of you will have their lives terminated before this; and that you may reach an appointed term, and perhaps so you may comprehend.4060
His friend said to him while discussing with him Have you disbelieved in the One who has created you from dust, then from a seed, then He evolved you into a man? 1837
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And We have created man from an extract from clay. Then We made him a seed in a safe lodging. Then We created the seed into an embryo, then We created the embryo into a fetus, then We created the fetus into bone, then We covered the bone with flesh, then We brought forth a new creation. So glory be to God, the best of creators. 2312-14 -
Thanks Loxbox, now that you have shown those verses it is looking mor like you say. But why is it so easy to misintepret? Why be so metaphoric in explanations?
Thanks
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Salaaman LB,
I understand it as follows
Yes she conceive but when Rooh was blown into her/him. I know, you must be thinking why I said her/him, let me explain you my understanding on the same.
Women has XX chromosomes
Men has XY chromosomesAnd X + X chromosomes makes a baby girl
And X + Y chromosomes makes a baby boyWhen Marium conceives without a touch of a men, she has to give birth to a baby girl because she has only X + X chromosomes. But that was not the case, she gave birth to a baby boy, how?
Allah said
2191
2191 And the one who protected her chastity, so We blew into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.
"Feeha" means "Into HER"
6612
6612 And Mary, daughter of Imran, who maintained the chastity of her private part, so We blew into him/it from Our Spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Books; and she was of those who were dutiful.
"Feehi" means "Into HIM / IT"
I think the "fihi", masculine, refers back to (farj), farj is masculine, so it wuld be We blew into it (her farj).
Salaam
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loxbox
If the birth of Issa (AS) was through normal process then why say "we made her and her son a sign for the world"?
They are sign, because she abolished sisterhood, as a nun, and he refuted all religions of birth of a virgin and all the myths that come with it.brother You are further complicating the things.
Who said the birth of Isaa (AS) was through normal process?
To abolish sister hood is a sign for all the worlds? come on brother take a break. -
Salaam huruf,
I think the "fihi", masculine, refers back to (farj), farj is masculine, so it wuld be We blew into it (her farj).
Salaam
I don't think that way cause
... ... 2191
... ... 6612
As per your logic, in 2191 "Feeha" should also refer to "Her Farj", if so, why "Feeha" in 2191 and why "Feehi" in 6612?
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam LB13,
If the birth of Issa (AS) was through normal process then why say "we made her and her son a sign for the world"?
They are sign, because she abolished sisterhood, as a nun, and he refuted all religions of birth of a virgin and all the myths that come with it.Where did Allah said that Marium was a nun? And even if she was, then how come she became a sign for THE WORLD?
the questin, is who is the messenger of god who was talking to her, and who told her i am to give you a child ? if not the husband than who was he ? remember Rouh is command, and rooh never been described as an angel, and god said he send angels and humans as messengers, but rooh is no angel, so who is the messneger of god who spoke to her .?
when she said that she was not married, it's obvious that she was a virgin, but after that the matter was decreed ! what matter ? for her to go through the process, or just get the child like magic ? !!!!!who was the messenger of god who was speaking to her?
Brother, just look at 1917 "...arsalnaaa..." means "...We sent...", now translate 1919 "...ana rasoolu rabbiki..." as "...I am the one who was sent from your Lord...", instead of messenger. You may understand it inshaAllah.
And "Rooh" does not mean "Command", but it says "...min amri rabbi..." that means "...from command of my Lord..."
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Jack,
Wow! You were suggesting Loxbox to not conclude anything, and you came up with the conclusion 'False' about my post? Good! Now please go through my post again. ;D
May Allah open our hearts to understand the truth pr
Mohammed M. KhanI would, but I am not interested in banging my head against the wall. I understood full well where you were going with your post. You're trying to imply that 359 ONLY implies to Adam and Jesus, when it implies to ALL humans. Are you seriously saying that your idea of "Be," and "It is" is some I dream of Jeannie scenario? God says 'be' and stuff starts popping up everywhere?
If you don't have a reply to the verse I referenced, just say so.
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Salaam Jack,
I would, but I am not interested in banging my head against the wall.
No need for that.
I understood full well where you were going with your post. You're trying to imply that 359 ONLY implies to Adam and Jesus, when it implies to ALL humans. Are you seriously saying that your idea of "Be," and "It is" is some I dream of Jeannie scenario? God says 'be' and stuff starts popping up everywhere?
If you don't have a reply to the verse I referenced, just say so.
yes correct , look at the aayat below
359
359 The example of Jesus with Allah is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him Be and he was.
May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Jack,
No need for that.
yes correct , look at the aayat below
359
359 The example of Jesus with Allah is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him Be and he was.
May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. KhanHey brother, how are you
look at this verse, this makes the verse about Isa and Adam, is just like anyone else with adam. be and we were
And We created you, then We shaped you, then We said to the angels Yield to Adam; so they yielded except for Satan, he was not of those who yielded. 711
this verse is another proof that Jesus was created juet like anyone else.