Jesus, Virgin Births, Miracles, Symbolisms.
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I generaly avoid going into debates. So instead of interpreting I will just post a verse wich to me seems as if Adam didn't have a human father.
359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him be and he was.
So it says similar to that of Adam. Not the same since Adam didn't have mothr like Jeus did.
Thanks
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I generaly avoid going into debates. So instead of interpreting I will just post a verse wich to me seems as if Adam didn't have a human father.
359 The example of Jesus with God is similar to that of Adam. He created him from dust, then said to him be and he was.
So it says similar to that of Adam. Not the same since Adam didn't have mothr like Jeus did.
Thanks
It's actually the contrary, the verse 359 confirm the opposite of what you're thinking, it confirms that Jesus came from sperm, because sperm if formed from the minerals of the earth that travel into the body through the food to form the sperm. we are all created like adam, from dust and than god gave the command be , and we were. took 9 months process for this Be and We are. read these verses to understand why god said about jesus that he is just like everyone else !
O people, if you are in doubt as to the resurrection, then We have created you from dust, then from a seed, then from an embryo, then from a fetus developed and undeveloped so that We make it clear to you. And We settle in the wombs what We wish to an appointed time, then We bring you out a child 225
He is the One who has created you from dust, then from a seed, then from an embryo, then He brings you out as a child, then He lets you reach your maturity, then you become old; and some of you will have their lives terminated before this; and that you may reach an appointed term, and perhaps so you may comprehend.4060
His friend said to him while discussing with him Have you disbelieved in the One who has created you from dust, then from a seed, then He evolved you into a man? 1837
( ( (
And We have created man from an extract from clay. Then We made him a seed in a safe lodging. Then We created the seed into an embryo, then We created the embryo into a fetus, then We created the fetus into bone, then We covered the bone with flesh, then We brought forth a new creation. So glory be to God, the best of creators. 2312-14 -
Thanks Loxbox, now that you have shown those verses it is looking mor like you say. But why is it so easy to misintepret? Why be so metaphoric in explanations?
Thanks
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Salaaman LB,
I understand it as follows
Yes she conceive but when Rooh was blown into her/him. I know, you must be thinking why I said her/him, let me explain you my understanding on the same.
Women has XX chromosomes
Men has XY chromosomesAnd X + X chromosomes makes a baby girl
And X + Y chromosomes makes a baby boyWhen Marium conceives without a touch of a men, she has to give birth to a baby girl because she has only X + X chromosomes. But that was not the case, she gave birth to a baby boy, how?
Allah said
2191
2191 And the one who protected her chastity, so We blew into her from Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for the worlds.
"Feeha" means "Into HER"
6612
6612 And Mary, daughter of Imran, who maintained the chastity of her private part, so We blew into him/it from Our Spirit, and she believed in the words of her Lord and His Books; and she was of those who were dutiful.
"Feehi" means "Into HIM / IT"
I think the "fihi", masculine, refers back to (farj), farj is masculine, so it wuld be We blew into it (her farj).
Salaam
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loxbox
If the birth of Issa (AS) was through normal process then why say "we made her and her son a sign for the world"?
They are sign, because she abolished sisterhood, as a nun, and he refuted all religions of birth of a virgin and all the myths that come with it.brother You are further complicating the things.
Who said the birth of Isaa (AS) was through normal process?
To abolish sister hood is a sign for all the worlds? come on brother take a break. -
Salaam huruf,
I think the "fihi", masculine, refers back to (farj), farj is masculine, so it wuld be We blew into it (her farj).
Salaam
I don't think that way cause
... ... 2191
... ... 6612
As per your logic, in 2191 "Feeha" should also refer to "Her Farj", if so, why "Feeha" in 2191 and why "Feehi" in 6612?
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam LB13,
If the birth of Issa (AS) was through normal process then why say "we made her and her son a sign for the world"?
They are sign, because she abolished sisterhood, as a nun, and he refuted all religions of birth of a virgin and all the myths that come with it.Where did Allah said that Marium was a nun? And even if she was, then how come she became a sign for THE WORLD?
the questin, is who is the messenger of god who was talking to her, and who told her i am to give you a child ? if not the husband than who was he ? remember Rouh is command, and rooh never been described as an angel, and god said he send angels and humans as messengers, but rooh is no angel, so who is the messneger of god who spoke to her .?
when she said that she was not married, it's obvious that she was a virgin, but after that the matter was decreed ! what matter ? for her to go through the process, or just get the child like magic ? !!!!!who was the messenger of god who was speaking to her?
Brother, just look at 1917 "...arsalnaaa..." means "...We sent...", now translate 1919 "...ana rasoolu rabbiki..." as "...I am the one who was sent from your Lord...", instead of messenger. You may understand it inshaAllah.
And "Rooh" does not mean "Command", but it says "...min amri rabbi..." that means "...from command of my Lord..."
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Jack,
Wow! You were suggesting Loxbox to not conclude anything, and you came up with the conclusion 'False' about my post? Good! Now please go through my post again. ;D
May Allah open our hearts to understand the truth pr
Mohammed M. KhanI would, but I am not interested in banging my head against the wall. I understood full well where you were going with your post. You're trying to imply that 359 ONLY implies to Adam and Jesus, when it implies to ALL humans. Are you seriously saying that your idea of "Be," and "It is" is some I dream of Jeannie scenario? God says 'be' and stuff starts popping up everywhere?
If you don't have a reply to the verse I referenced, just say so.
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Salaam Jack,
I would, but I am not interested in banging my head against the wall.
No need for that.
I understood full well where you were going with your post. You're trying to imply that 359 ONLY implies to Adam and Jesus, when it implies to ALL humans. Are you seriously saying that your idea of "Be," and "It is" is some I dream of Jeannie scenario? God says 'be' and stuff starts popping up everywhere?
If you don't have a reply to the verse I referenced, just say so.
yes correct , look at the aayat below
359
359 The example of Jesus with Allah is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him Be and he was.
May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam Jack,
No need for that.
yes correct , look at the aayat below
359
359 The example of Jesus with Allah is similar to that of Adam; He created him from dust, then He said to him Be and he was.
May Allah guide us all to His path pr
Mohammed M. KhanHey brother, how are you
look at this verse, this makes the verse about Isa and Adam, is just like anyone else with adam. be and we were
And We created you, then We shaped you, then We said to the angels Yield to Adam; so they yielded except for Satan, he was not of those who yielded. 711
this verse is another proof that Jesus was created juet like anyone else.
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Salaam and hi brother,
I am great by Allah's grace and hope the same for you.
Hey brother, how are you
look at this verse, this makes the verse about Isa and Adam, is just like anyone else with adam. be and we were
And We created you, then We shaped you, then We said to the angels Yield to Adam; so they yielded except for Satan, he was not of those who yielded. 711
this verse is another proof that Jesus was created juet like anyone else.
I did not see "be and we were" in the aayat quoted brother.
It only says "khalaqnaakum" then "sawwarnaakum" then "asked Malaaika for sajda to Adam". How did you get "be and we were" from this aayat, can you please explain bro?
Thanks
May Allah guide us all towards His path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Salaam huruf,
I don't think that way cause
... ... 2191
... ... 6612
As per your logic, in 2191 "Feeha" should also refer to "Her Farj", if so, why "Feeha" in 2191 and why "Feehi" in 6612?
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. KhanI am not going to say what you say cannot be, because in principle I think that anything can be, however, I do not find what you say the most convincing, taking the whole, I think that it really can mean in one ayat Maryam the person and in another farjaha, which would be more specific physiologically. In order to be more inclined to the idea you state I would want may be more fingers pointing that way.
Answering PEL
Thanks Loxbox, now that you have shown those verses it is looking mor like you say. But why is it so easy to misintepret? Why be so metaphoric in explanations?
Thanks
May be because what is not explicit is not what is important.
We are haunted by the virginity question. We are so bewitched by it, that we cannot get to the greater picture of the Maryam phenomenon, because we are caught in trappings which may be are not what the Most Wise wants to teach us.
If we get rid of the feminine mystique of virginity and get down to real common life, what the Qur'an is telling us was that Maryam was a single mother, a woman singled out because of something that happens to her that should not happen, that marked her in an abominable way. That she was a believer, a qanita, and she became a mother and was alone. That because of that she suffered and was sustained by the remembrase of God and that under every circumstance, she submitted to the One, the only one, that has a right to our submission.
May be if we were not hypnotized by the mystical "value" of virginity, and concentrated in sincere submission and purity, we would come nearer to the truth, to what we need to know of the truth. ?Do we really need to know whether she was a virgin or not? ?Do we? Why do we have so many ayas of the Qur'an particularly in sura An-nur telling us not to mind other people's business, not to pry into their lives? May be what God wants to teach us has nothing to do with virginity but with simple, questionless, absolute submission to his Might, Mercy, Wisdom, Bounty, Love... Is that not a magnificent, miraculous, inspiring teaching? Do we need to go into Mayam's bedroom? God does not seem to have invited us to it. Suffice that He says she was virtuous and a submitter. Enough.
She was alone and still became a mother. We are all justified, no matter how we came into this existence. Whether our parents wanted us or not, whether our mother was raped or was happy, to our existence it does not matter. And may be God told Maryam that what she received, no matter how or by which agent, was from God. That everything, even that what comes to disrupt our lives and wreak havoc with them comes from Him, and that we must thank Him and TRUST Him, it is our way back to Him, our salvation and redemption. What He orders for us comes from His bounty, even if it hurts, even if it kills us. Submission to God. Islam. Maryam, example for every single Muslim.
And all the food that was from Allah and is mentioned in the Qur'an was spiritual food, and also material food, for , everything is from Allah, no matter what the agent, and that is what Maryam is saying, EVERYTHING is from Allah. And sinc everything is from Allah she lived immersed in Allah.
I think that till we do not get rid of this trapping, virgin or not virgin, we will not get fully what God is teaching us from her example. His son was from God because, everything, absolutely everything in her life was from God.
In a traditional Muslim, and non Muslim world, where many times moral judgement on reproduction comes first instead of submission to God, before turning to God, and trampling the honoured Qur'an, we jump to examine first if the woman was spotless or not, and ?are not today some unfortunate women autmatically suspect of indecency when they are pregnant, and even in certain places, as against other times in history, pregnancy is taken as a proof of zina, which means Maryam, according to that would have been sentenced to stoning? We may say "those people" have gone very far from Qur'an, but aren't we all very far from Qur'an too? Don't we delve too much in things from delving in which we have been sternly and clearly warned by our Sustainer? Don't we believe in His wisdom? Are we bound to absolute knowledge in this world, we powerless creatures? Is our want and need for absolute control not an obsession and a pointless dream? God is the controller, not us.
And we claim virginity for Maryam when if we knew her today we would brand her straight away?
There is in the first aya of An-nisaa a passage where we are told to be conscious of Allah and to be conscious of the wombs. Some people get angry when one takes that literally and say that what that means is be conscious of liens of consanguinity. May be, but that would only be one aspect derived from the wombs, not the whole thing and if God had wanted to say that, surely there are ways to express that meaning without saying "be conscious of the wombs". He chose this form, and we shy away from giving it full import.
I think we should ponder more on these things. Women have less control of their bodies than men when force is applied to them, although all are subject to being forced, but may be we are warned, warned plenty, but we hide behind things like virginity and spend centuries pondering whether Maryam was a virgin or not. ?Is that really important? God did not want to make tht clear to us.
What the Qur'an tells us of her seems to say that other things are important and hides the fact of her virginity or lack of it, because it is not important. He is the Wise.
Alhandulil-lah, rabb el 3alamin, Al hayy al qayyum.
Salaam
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I am not going to say what you say cannot be, because in principle I think that anything can be, however, I do not find what you say the most convincing, taking the whole, I think that it really can mean in one ayat Maryam the person and in another farjaha, which would be more specific physiologically. In order to be more inclined to the idea you state I would want may be more fingers pointing that way.
Answering PEL
May be because what is not explicit is not what is important.
We are haunted by the virginity question. We are so bewitched by it, that we cannot get to the greater picture of the Maryam phenomenon, because we are caught in trappings which may be are not what the Most Wise wants to teach us.
If we get rid of the feminine mystique of virginity and get down to real common life, what the Qur'an is telling us was that Maryam was a single mother, a woman singled out because of something that happens to her that should not happen, that marked her in an abominable way. That she was a believer, a qanita, and she became a mother and was alone. That because of that she suffered and was sustained by the remembrase of God and that under every circumstance, she submitted to the One, the only one, that has a right to our submission.
May be if we were not hypnotized by the mystical "value" of virginity, and concentrated in sincere submission and purity, we would come nearer to the truth, to what we need to know of the truth. ?Do we really need to know whether she was a virgin or not? ?Do we? Why do we have so many ayas of the Qur'an particularly in sura An-nur telling us not to mind other people's business, not to pry into their lives? May be what God wants to teach us has nothing to do with virginity but with simple, questionless, absolute submission to his Might, Mercy, Wisdom, Bounty, Love... Is that not a magnificent, miraculous, inspiring teaching? Do we need to go into Mayam's bedroom? God does not seem to have invited us to it. Suffice that He says she was virtuous and a submitter. Enough.
She was alone and still became a mother. We are all justified, no matter how we came into this existence. Whether our parents wanted us or not, whether our mother was raped or was happy, to our existence it does not matter. And may be God told Maryam that what she received, no matter how or by which agent, was from God. That everything, even that what comes to disrupt our lives and wreak havoc with them comes from Him, and that we must thank Him and TRUST Him, it is our way back to Him, our salvation and redemption. What He orders for us comes from His bounty, even if it hurts, even if it kills us. Submission to God. Islam. Maryam, example for every single Muslim.
And all the food that was from Allah and is mentioned in the Qur'an was spiritual food, and also material food, for , everything is from Allah, no matter what the agent, and that is what Maryam is saying, EVERYTHING is from Allah. And sinc everything is from Allah she lived immersed in Allah.
I think that till we do not get rid of this trapping, virgin or not virgin, we will not get fully what God is teaching us from her example. His son was from God because, everything, absolutely everything in her life was from God.
In a traditional Muslim, and non Muslim world, where many times moral judgement on reproduction comes first instead of submission to God, before turning to God, and trampling the honoured Qur'an, we jump to examine first if the woman was spotless or not, and ?are not today some unfortunate women autmatically suspect of indecency when they are pregnant, and even in certain places, as against other times in history, pregnancy is taken as a proof of zina, which means Maryam, according to that would have been sentenced to stoning? We may say "those people" have gone very far from Qur'an, but aren't we all very far from Qur'an too? Don't we delve too much in things from delving in which we have been sternly and clearly warned by our Sustainer? Don't we believe in His wisdom? Are we bound to absolute knowledge in this world, we powerless creatures? Is our want and need for absolute control not an obsession and a pointless dream? God is the controller, not us.
And we claim virginity for Maryam when if we knew her today we would brand her straight away?
There is in the first aya of An-nisaa a passage where we are told to be conscious of Allah and to be conscious of the wombs. Some people get angry when one takes that literally and say that what that means is be conscious of liens of consanguinity. May be, but that would only be one aspect derived from the wombs, not the whole thing and if God had wanted to say that, surely there are ways to express that meaning without saying "be conscious of the wombs". He chose this form, and we shy away from giving it full import.
I think we should ponder more on these things. Women have less control of their bodies than men when force is applied to them, although all are subject to being forced, but may be we are warned, warned plenty, but we hide behind things like virginity and spend centuries pondering whether Maryam was a virgin or not. ?Is that really important? God did not want to make tht clear to us.
What the Qur'an tells us of her seems to say that other things are important and hides the fact of her virginity or lack of it, because it is not important. He is the Wise.
Alhandulil-lah, rabb el 3alamin, Al hayy al qayyum.
Salaam
Good article, you're right, people can read she was a virgin even though there is nothing in Mariam about virginity, it's the influence and magic of this story that get into the minds since childhood.
ant=yway, you getmy attentuin to sourah anissa verse 1
this verse about the woumb is about justice. the quranic state is responsible for the nutrition of the foetus , the foetus of a poor woman must eat the same way and equally with the foetus that is in the womb of a rich woman, and the state under the quran is responsible for this equality.
this verse say itaqou allah, and what is in the woubs, and after that talks about justice for the orphins etc...people never think that god's justice is amazing, justice between foetuses in the woumbs.
The quran is amazing, no human can think this way. or can think of this kind of justice. -
Good article, you're right, people can read she was a virgin even though there is nothing in Mariam about virginity, it's the influence and magic of this story that get into the minds since childhood.
ant=yway, you getmy attentuin to sourah anissa verse 1
this verse about the woumb is about justice. the quranic state is responsible for the nutrition of the foetus , the foetus of a poor woman must eat the same way and equally with the foetus that is in the womb of a rich woman, and the state under the quran is responsible for this equality.
this verse say itaqou allah, and what is in the woubs, and after that talks about justice for the orphins etc...people never think that god's justice is amazing, justice between foetuses in the woumbs.
The quran is amazing, no human can think this way. or can think of this kind of justice.I think that if God wanted to refer to the fetuses exclusively He would have pointed that way. In fact it is very short and clear and it says, to be conscious of God with Whom you claim from one anothe (plural) and of the wombs. I do not think we should restrict the meaning, because any way you look there are very significant lessons for us. The one you mention is important and meaningful, but it is not the only one.
It comes to mind when dealing with Maryam, because it illustrates the very fact that she did nothing to become pregnant nor to put herself in such situation, at least nothing is said to indicate that in the Qur'an, as many women have done nothing to put themselves in that situation, be it within wedlock or outside wedlock. Rape eminently comes to mind. There are other ways, but rape is the most clear. It is very important because it is a perfect show of lack of control of one's life. This kind of loss of control is unique to women, it is maybe the most eloquent example of it, but it is not the only one, and all human kind can experience that abolute powerlesness, arbitraryness, violence, deception... and your life has changed, you are like a nutshell in the gale. And look at Maryam and how she reacts...
Wombs, like everything in this world is a trial for our sense of taqwa. Do we fear God to wreak havoc in a woman's life, in a person's life, because we want to feel powerful, and doubtless raping a woman and upsetting her life is a proof of power? But, ends the aya 4.1 inna al-laha kaana 3alaikum raqiban. For God ever watches you. And, I add, power and might are His, and everything is under His power and might, if we go around proving our Might, we are defying God to prove His to us, and when we defy God...
Salaam
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This absurd claim of Hazrat Mariam not being Virgin is strongly advocated by Jews and initiated by them, later on adopted by some sects of Christians and Now so called Muslims;
Who keep on blind eye towards the verses presented and explanation given by many here.http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/Mary1927-28.GIF
Thereby she came along with him to her nation/people in the state she was physically carrying him.
They said, "O Maryam, of course you have come exposing an unexpected/strange/amazing thing;O you the sister of Haruen, your father was not a bad man and nor your mother was debauch"
Please ponder on the words "amazing" and your father was "not a bad man" and your mother not "unchaste"...
These verses clearly tell the whole story and if some still believes that She was not virgin then we can pray to Allah. -
This absurd claim of Hazrat Mariam not being Virgin is strongly advocated by Jews and initiated by them, later on adopted by some sects of Christians and Now so called Muslims;
Who keep on blind eye towards the verses presented and explanation given by many here.http//www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/Mary1927-28.GIF
Thereby she came along with him to her nation/people in the state she was physically carrying him.
They said, "O Maryam, of course you have come exposing an unexpected/strange/amazing thing;O you the sister of Haruen, your father was not a bad man and nor your mother was debauch"
Please ponder on the words "amazing" and your father was "not a bad man" and your mother not "unchaste"...
These verses clearly tell the whole story and if some still believes that She was not virgin then we can pray to Allah.The father of Isa was Unknown to the Rabbis, that is why they accused her !
the husband of Miriam propably died, or left her , Allah knows how did it happened, but there was a messenger of god speaking to her, who came to her with the command. and they had conversation.
sister of Haroun, this verse is just telling us that Miriam and Isa , are not Mary and Jesus of 2000 years ago, but it was the sister of Aaron and Moussa. , Isa is the nefew of Moussa, and Isa is three thousand years ago. and not 2000 years ago. -
The father of Isa was Unknown to the Rabbis, that is why they accused her !
the husband of Miriam propably died, or left her , Allah knows how did it happened,Then What a story build on conjecture and hearsay by you!
They are exactly the same.
You just keep following the stories like Mary was married to Joseph the carpenter
she was married to Joseph as a wife and after Christ he had normal relations with her and produced four sons names Jacob (called James) Judah or Jude, Simon and Joseph who was named after him. Mariam was the mother of Christ. Maria was his auntie who married Clophas. She also had a number of children including James the lesser or Little James (Jacob). They were all younger than Christ, which is the reason Mariam was placed in the care of John at the Crucifixion. Jacob called James by us wrote the book of James and chaired the Acts conference, being bishop of Jerusalem. He was martyred in 63 CE. He was succeeded by Symeon his and Christs cousin. Jude wrote the book of that name in the Bible. The story of their family is told in the paper The Virgin Mariam and the Family of Jesus Christ (No. 232). -
Then What a story build on conjecture and hearsay by you!
They are exactly the same.
You just keep following the stories like Mary was married to Joseph the carpenter
she was married to Joseph as a wife and after Christ he had normal relations with her and produced four sons names Jacob (called James) Judah or Jude, Simon and Joseph who was named after him. Mariam was the mother of Christ. Maria was his auntie who married Clophas. She also had a number of children including James the lesser or Little James (Jacob). They were all younger than Christ, which is the reason Mariam was placed in the care of John at the Crucifixion. Jacob called James by us wrote the book of James and chaired the Acts conference, being bishop of Jerusalem. He was martyred in 63 CE. He was succeeded by Symeon his and Christs cousin. Jude wrote the book of that name in the Bible. The story of their family is told in the paper The Virgin Mariam and the Family of Jesus Christ (No. 232).I don't believe a bit of the biography of prophet mohamed written by hearesay, and you want me to believe in the mumbo jumbo story of Jesus written also by hearesay !!!
Isa is not Jesus , it's as simple as that. -
The unprecedented birth of Easa alahissalam is so unimbiguously mentioned in Grand Qur'aan that except pseudo intellectuals none misses the fact. Syeda Maryam had also the same perception and understanding that a son is born to a woman only when she "meets" a man. This is what is called the perception of causality.
Here is the statement of Qur'aan in sequence about this epidsode, in Urdu, which I have pasted from my InPage pages.
a sample page
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/URDU%20ARTICLES%20INDEX/Jesus%20Return/Virgin.gif