"Hebrew", the Children of Israel, and the Semitic Migrations
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Salaam Pazuzu
On your first post you show a burner with Aramaic writing. You say it was dug up in South Arabia, near Najran, but I did not find this information on the website of the Saudi National Museum. I found the burner, though, under Aramaic inscriptions. Can you please give a link? It would also be helpful if other proof on Aramaic being found in South Arabia so as not to consider the burner a one-off non specific incident.
As far as I know, the ancient language of South Arabia is the Sabaean. Such links will change a lot of theories built on my understanding.
This is a copy paste from the site of the Saudi Museum
Notes on the Origin and Development of Writing in Arabia
It is generally thought that writing gradually developed from the human, animal and other figures that prehistoric artists had been depicting on rocks for thousands of years before the first alphabets. Thousands of petroglyphs are located all over the Arabian Peninsula. To many observers, the various phases of rock art suggest that such images were initially created as an aesthetic activity, but they later became increasingly symbolic and semantic.
Writing was an important means of communication between the Arabian Peninsula and the civilizations of Mesopotamia, Syria and Egypt. Writing is thought to have originated around 3500 BC in Mesopotamia and perhaps originated independently in Egypt as well. The oldest scripts are known as Cuneiform in Mesopotamia and Hieroglyphic in Egypt. These writing systems had developed over time from the use of pictographs, signs and symbols. The available evidence suggests that writing might have developed in the Arabian Peninsula from the early Sinatic script around 2000 - 1500 BC.
By around 1000 BC two families of ancient writings had developed in the Arabian Peninsula. The one in the north (the North Arabic family) was called Musnad al-Shamali and the one in southern Arabia (the South Arabic family) was called Musnad al-Janubi.
Musnad al-Shamali (North Arabic) spread out around the first millennium BC through northern Arabia, and from this developed the Lihyanite, Safaitic and Aramaic writing systems, which flourished in the north of Arabia around the middle of the first millennium BC. From Aramaic Nabataean script and from Nabataean, Arabic writing developed.
Meanwhile the use of South Arabic forms of writing also expanded, and developed into the Sabaean, Qatabani, Hadrami, and Hassanean scripts.
With the rise of Islam, Arabic spread all over the region, both north and south, and the more ancient writing forms vanished. Thus none of these other writing systems has been in common use in Arabia for around 1,400 years.
http//www.mnh.si.edu/epigraphy/e_pre-islamic/preislamic.htm
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Salaam Pazuzu
On your first post you show a burner with Aramaic writing. You say it was dug up in South Arabia, near Najran, but I did not find this information on the website of the Saudi National Museum. I found the burner, though, under Aramaic inscriptions. Can you please give a link? It would also be helpful if other proof on Aramaic being found in South Arabia so as not to consider the burner a one-off non specific incident.
As far as I know, the ancient language of South Arabia is the Sabaean. Such links will change a lot of theories built on my understanding.
This is a copy paste from the site of the Saudi Museum
Yes, the oldest written alphabet in Arabia was Sabaean (Sheban), which dates back to somewhere between 2000 BC and 1500 BC ( although Thamudic also vies for this).
I did not have access to the link for the Museum website. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. The information I got was from an article written by a group of people of Bahrainy, Iraqi, and Saudi Arabian nationality. These were the same people who co-wrote the book "Nida'a al Surat" (Call of the Heights). There is no one single author who claims the rights to that book.
Perhaps they spoke with the Museum curator and he told them this information (that the insense burner was uncovered in the south of Saudi Arabia??).. Anyway, how else could it be? The Saudis have not been known to STEAL archeological artifacts from OTHER'S lands and put them on display in their own museums, have they?? This is only something the CIVILIZED WEST is famous for doing. (Which explains the presence of Sheban inscriptions in the LOUVRE Museum of Paris).
Anyway, thank you for the link. I will definately check it out again and see what I can find.
Peace...
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Dear Samia...
I just realized something. On the Home Page of that website, it clearly states that all the inscriptions on the site were discovered in Saudi Arabia.
Regards...
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Good day to all.
The following thread will not be as long as the other two. I will make no more than 3 posts here. I urge you to read this, because it is like a bridge which connects the two other threads.
Regards.
To Be ContinuedSalaam Pazuzu
Looking forward to your next post on this subject.
peace -
Dear Samia...
I just realized something. On the Home Page of that website, it clearly states that all the inscriptions on the site were discovered in Saudi Arabia.
Regards...
Hello Pazuzu
Yes I know, precisely in the Arabian Peninsula.
But Arabia is a vast Peninsula. Some pieces were discovered in the South, some in the North.
The site also speaks of two big language families Aramaic in the North and Sabean in the South.
For the Aramaic inscription it shows this vase on the page I copy-pasted, but could not copy paste the photos; and for the Sabean it shows the stone of Abraha found in Yemen. However, it does not say where exactly the vase was found, and this was my question how you knew it was found in the South.If the vase was found anywhere in the North, then it is normal. If it was found in the South, then to have any significance, more inscriptions in Aramaic should be found besides it, or we should expect some commentary from Archaeologist as to why it was there, contrary to their own theory concerning the distribution of languages as explained on the same page.
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Peace @huruf,
you need to be extremely careful...
Allah in the Quran says that no community is punished unless it has been warned with a Messenger...
It goes on to say that all communities have been sent Messengers, as Allah is Just and does not deny His guidance to anyone...
On the subject of Prophethood, not once does it say that all communities had Prophets from among them, and when it refers to Prophets, it refers to them by name, and/or through lineage...
The overwhelming majority of the Prophets cited in the Quran are from the progeny of Abraham...
This leads to the conjecture (not necessarily true) of the possibility that Prophethood was solely granted from among the descendants of Abraham, and Allah knows best...That being said, the only one who decides what capabilities are granted to Messengers and Prophets is Allah Himself, this is why as an article of faith we are ordered (a commandment) not to distinguish among any of them... This is Allah's business, and He grants His favour to whomever He pleases...
Our business, and duty is to obey His commandments, i.e. to hear and obey... no other choice for any who wishes to be a Believer and enters Allah's Grace and Mercy...
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- ?Hebrew? ? A Language, or a Description?
Whenever this word ?Hebrew? is mentioned, it immediately brings to our minds a nation or a people who have embraced Judaism as their creed, who speak a certain language that has been decreed exclusively for them by God, and who consider the Old Testament to be their sacred text.
But is this what the word really means? Or was the term given ? for political reasons ? a meaning that was different from its original context, in order to create the illusion of a ?chosen people? racially superior to all others?
We have seen from the previous post that this language ?Hebrew? never existed in the first place. And what we hear the ?Israelis? speaking today is a corrupted form of Aramaic that was created, from scratch, by the Zionist movement in the early 20th century, and infused with the rural Yiddish dialect of Germany, as well as hundreds of Arabic words. And the proof is that the elderly generation who migrated to Palestine, their alleged "Promised Land?, had never even heard of this language, and were forced to learn it from the younger generation.
The truth we are about to reveal, which only few people are aware of, is that the word ?Hebrew? or ?3ibri - 3ibrani? (singular) / "3ibriyyoun" (plural) is an Arabic term, more precisely an adjective, used to describe those who have ?crossed over?, or ?crossed from one region to another?. In fact, the word ?3ubour? (crossing a region, river, valley, etc?) is derived from it.
So does this word really carry in its meaning a certain people who have a special exclusive language, and who follow a certain creed?
If we look in the old and forgotten books of the Arab geographers, we can see glaring clues as to the real meaning of the word ?3ibri?.
For example, geographer and historian Yaqoot al-Hamwi gives us the following explanation
" ..."
What is Yaqoot saying here?
Translation .Source Yaqoot (Mu3jam al Buldan - Vol 4 - page 7
Another prominent geographer, Al- Bakri al- Andalusi casts more light on the subject, in his book entitled ?Mu3jam ma Stu3jam?. Here is what he says
. .
What is al-Andalusi trying to tell us?
He begins by giving us a geographical definition of ?Tahama? (This is the same "Tahum" which appears 30 times in the original Aramaic Torah, and has left Biblical scholars dumbfounded as to its meaning). "Tahama" - - is a coastal area along the Red Sea (?ma sayara al-bahri?) which includes ? among other locations Mecca, Al-3ibr, Al-Tur, and Al-Jazeera. So the ?3ibr? is within Tahama, which is a greater coastal region that also includes the valley where Mecca lies today. Then he gives the same definition of this ?3ibr? as Yaqoot al Hamwi, by saying ?the area stretching from the Phorat across the Arabian wilderness?.
Al-Andalusi and Yaqoobi are basically telling us
1- That there was a wilderness area known to the Arabs as ?al-3ibr?, which was part of Tahama (the coastal region extending from Mecca, all the way to the ?elbow? of Arabia in Yemen).
2- This area was bounded by the Red Sea coast on one side, and by the Phorat on the other.
3- ALL those who "cross" (ya3bur) this area of the wilderness near the coastal strip ( ?3ibr?), and make their way towards the Surat Mountains (The Heights) along the Red Sea coast were called ?3ibran? or ?3ibraniyyeen? (HEBREWS).
ANd among them were the Jews, when they crossed the Phorat.Hence, ?Hebrew? was an adjective - a label - given by the inhabitants of the Tahama coastal region and its mountains to all those who came from across the wilderness of Arabia, seeking sanctuary in the shades and streams of the Surat.
Included in the region of Tahama is also a very famous mountain known to the Arabs for ages untold. They called it "al-Tur". And I will tell you now what it means, and prove to you that it is NOT in the Sinai Pennisula.
The Quran calls it ?Tur Seeneen? (NOT ?Tur Sinai?). And the word ?seeneen? is a PLURAL noun. The question is A plural of what?
There is a very well known tree which grows in the mountainous regions of Western Arabia called ?seeniya? (shajarat al-seeniya). If you go and investigate this further, you will see that it is the same tree which they call, in the common Arabic, ?al-3ulleiq? .
Now, if you look it up in a translator, you get ?BRAMBLE?
Here is what Ibn Manzhour tells us in ?lisan al Arab? about the word ?seeneen?
Note the underlined definition he gives us Al-Seeniyya = a type of tree. The plural form is "seeneen".
What this means is that the ?Tur? mentioned in the Quran is a wooded mountain, on which several kinds of trees grow. In fact, the Quran talks about another tree in that mountain
{And a tree which emerges from the Tur Sineen (the mountain of brambles), grows oil and is a relish for those who eat} ?
What is this tree being mentioned here? Does this sound like it's in the desert in the middle of the Sinai Pennisula? Has anyone ever PROVEN that the mountain the Jews worship over there was called "Al-Tur"? Moreover, how did the word ?seeneen?, a plural noun which appears in the Quran indicating a type of tree (bramble), become the proper noun "Sinai", given to the pennisula east of Egypt?
Going back to the issue of ?Hebrews?, we can conclude that the word means ?those who have crossed over? . And we have seen where this area of crossing over is, in relation to Tahama (the coastal strip of Arabia).
The question is How did this adjective, which the inhabitants of Tahama used to describe ANY and ALL who crossed over the wilderness and came to settle in their mountainous region, become a term EXCLUSIVELY used for the Children of Israel?
This is another of the many forgeries which they perpetrated to hide the true identity of the Israelites. The truth of the matter is that Abraham (P) was called ?Hebrew? in the Torah. Why is that so? The OT texts speak of Abraham as "The Hebrew", and elsewhere as ?The lost Aramian? (meaning that he was looking for a place to settle). This is because Abraham was among the first to ?cross over? and settle in the region of Tahama. Interestingly, the Torah NEVER uses the term ?Hebrew? to describe Abraham?s sons, Ismael and Isaac. Why is that so? Could it be because they didn?t cross over with their father? Could it be because they were BORN in the region of Tahama? Nowehere in the Torah do we read about ?Ismael the Hebrew? or ?Isaac the Hebrew? or even ?Jacob the Hebrew?. But we do read about ?Joseph the Hebrew? for reasons that we will show you very soon. (What I am trying to tell you here is that the Torah describes Abraham as ?Hebrew?. Then, this term disappears and is not mentioned anywhere in relation to his descendants Ismael, Isaac, and Jacob, only to re-appear again with the mention of Joseph). This is very important and needs to be looked into. The descendants of Abraham did not migrate across the Arabian wilderness to the coastal mountain region. They were born IN the region of Tahama. So technically, theye were descendants of a Hebrew, but were not Hebrews themselves. They were simply "Israelites".
The proof that the word ?Hebrew? does not indicate a language or a particular ?Pure and Chosen Race? is found in the Torah itself.
Take a look at the following passages from the Old Testament, which talks about one of the many laws that Moses is claimed to have taught his people
"Now these the judgments which you shall set before them "If you buy a Hebrew servant, he shall serve six years; and in the seventh he shall go out free and pay nothing. "If he comes in by himself, he shall go out by himself; if he married, then his wife shall go out with him. "If his master has given him a wife, and she has borne him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself. "But if the servant plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' "then his master shall bring him to the judges. He shall also bring him to the door, or to the doorpost, and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him forever? (Exodus 21 2-6)
These regulations given by Moses to the Israelites clearly distinguish between the Israelites themselves (who, by that time, were established in the Tahama area, near the ancient trade routes), and the slaves, among whom were Hebrews who ?crossed over? towards the new homeland of the Israelites. The latter were bought and sold as SLAVES, and this was absolutely FORBIDDEN to the Israelites to do it among themselves! Has anyone ever heard of an Israelite (a member of ?God?s Chosen People?) buying or selling another Israelite as a slave?
But then, why is Joseph called ?Hebrew??? Wasn?t he too, born in the Tahama region?
This is because the inhabitants of the Tahama region of Arabia, who had control of the entire coastal region (including the trade routes) still considered the later generations of Israelites as being somewhat ?beneath them?, and looked upon them with some kind of contempt. As such, Joseph in particular was still considered ?Hebrew?, even though he was born in that region. (It is because his ancestor, Abraham, was not originally from that land, but migrated to there)
This is why, we read in the Torah as well, the following passage
So they set him a place by himself, and them by themselves, and the Egyptians who ate with him by themselves; because the Egyptians could not eat food with the Hebrews, for that an abomination to the Egyptians. (Genesis 4332)
Pay attention to the context of the word ?Egyptians? in the above text. In the original Aramaic text, the word we see is ?Misrim?.
What the passage is saying is The MISRIM could not eat food with the Hebrews (because they were disgusted by them, and viewed them as beneath their station).
The Septuagint criminals, however, perpetrated a blatant forgery by replacing the word MISRIM (or ?msrm? as it appears in the original, silent, Aramic text), with ?Aegypto".
But I will show you now how their forgery was exposed
Whenever someone forges a text, he is bound to make a mistake somewhere, which gives away his crime. Among the glaring forgeries that were perpetrated by the Septuagint priests (which suited the interests of the Ptolemic rulers of Egypt), was that they looked for every single instance of the word ?Misrim?, and replaced it with ?Aegypto?. But there was one instance that they mistakenly failed to pay attention to. There is one passage in their forged Torah which mentions ?Misrim? in its true context
Take a look at this please
If the Tribe of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they no they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zecheriah 141
Why is "Egypt" being described here as a ?tribe? ??? (in some modern translations of the Torah, the passage mentions ?family of Egypt?, while in others we read ?clan of Egypt?).
My question to you is the following
Has anyone EVER heard of Egypt being described as a "tribe" or a "clan"?
If you look at the original Aramaic text of Zecheriah, it says ?Mishfaht Misrim?. The word ?Mishfaht? is an Aramaic word meaning TRIBE.
Also, the two letters ?i? and ?m? added to the ends of words are used to denote the plural tense in the Aramaic dialect. This is also the exact same phenomenon which we encounter in the Old Yemeni (Himyarite) dialect, and is only ONE of the DOZENS of similarities between the two, proving that they all originated in the same geographical region.
Here are other examples of this Aramaic plural form
Eloh ? Elohim (god ? gods)
Cherub ? Cherubim (angel ? angels)
Katub ? Katubim (book ? books)
Himyar ? Himyarim (Himyarite ? Himyarites)
Msr ? Msrim (MISR ? MISRAIM)So the word MSRM is the plural form of MSR. (This is exactly how it appears in the original Aramaic text, which did not contain vowels).
So what is MSR then? According to the passage of Zacharia, it is a TRIBE. And this tribe had control of the Tahama region of Arabia. Furthermore, The ?s? in ?MSR? is the heavy ?sadd? sound, which in Arabic is pronounced . This is why the name is written in the Arabic translations (NOT ).
So the text is talking about the TRIBE OF MSR
And these people are the same MSRM (in the plural tense) who were disgusted at the idea of eating with Joseph the ?Hebrew? (whose ancestors were outsiders and had migrated to their region, and where therefore looked upon with disdain).
And they were NOT Egyptians.
Abraham never set foot in Egypt, nor did his descendents.
So who are those people then? What is this TRIBE of MSR??
I will not reveal this information here. I will leave it for a special thread about Abraham?s journey. So I will let you guess and do some research. But I will give you three clues
1- There was once, long ago, a GIGANTIC tribe in Arabia, which included many clans within its fold. And this tribe was so legendary, that it is now commonly known to all historians, and is mentioned in many verses of ancient Arabic poetry.
2- The various clans of this huge tribe lived in the region known as Tahama - (The "Tahum" of the Aramaic Torah), and had control of the Red Sea Coast of the Hijaz, and Asir.
3- The Aramaic version of the name is MSR (with the heavy ?s? sound), which differs from the Arabic version of the name, because there are 6 letters in the Arabic alphabet not found in Aramaic.
So I leave it up to you, for now, to try to figure out who they are, while also keeping in mind that the following website (link below) came VERY, VERY close to the truth concerning the identity of ?MISRM?
http//oce.catholic.com/index.php?title=Arabia
(scroll down to the 12th paragraph THE NORTH-ARABIAN MUSRI AND THE OLD TESTAMENT MISRAIM ).So scratch your heads a bit, dear readers, and try to crack this puzzle who is the Tribe of Misrm? And when you do find the answer, you will know immediately that you have, because your jaw will probably drop to the floor.
We conclude from all of the above, that the term ?Hebrew? simply means ?Those who have migrated or crossed-over from one region to another?. And in the context of our subject it has now become clear
The Bani Israel were the grand-children (descendants) of Abraham, the Hebrew (3abrani) who had migrated / crossed (3abar) the wilderness of Arabia and settled in the mountainous and fertile region of Asir, which Allah describes as the ?Blessed Land? (because of its rich resources, fruits, and many fresh water streams and rivers). This land was home to the legendary Arab tribe of MSR (as the name is spelled in Aramaic, due to the LACK OF A CERTAIN ALPHABETICAL LETTER).
So the Israelites were not the only "Hebrews". They were among those who had ?crossed over? from the wilderness of Arabia to its shady and fertile mountainous regions. ANY and ALL who migrated in this same manner were given the label of ?Hebrews? (3abran) by the inhabitants of Tahama.
And this Arabic term ?3abrani? is still used even today in some Arab countries, like Jordan or Syria, where it describes the inhabitants of the rural areas (or small villages) who make the trip to the capital, by bus, as they ?cross over? the wilderness towards the large urban centers.
It is a word that is deeply imbedded in the memory of Arabia, and provides further evidence as to where the events of the Torah took place.
To Be Continued
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Salaam Pazuzu and thank you for the lastest post sun
BTW we are not the only one discussing Hebrew
Israeli Ambassador Daniel Taub was formally welcomed to the UK by the Queen at a Buckingham Palace ceremony........
"They discussed the miracle of the revival of the Hebrew language in Israel, ........"
http//www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/58505/israeli-ambassador-meets-queen
peace -
Salam Bro pazuzu,
you are to be given credit that you are a great story teller...
and this quality is added poignancy that what you write is very important, and seems overwhelmingly to have genuine substance to it...
it reads like a good historical thriller too... ;D
now a little bit off beat, I wish to inquire with you about Jesus of Nazareth (Yeshua)... if he is not the Isa of the Quran (so Esau son of Miriam in Yemen, in fact)...
is he (Yeshua) actually the Prophet referred to as Al Yasa'a in the Quran?
another thing, is the the Bible Book of Isaiah actually the Injeel (Evangile in French),
so the true Gospel (i.e. which was found in the Qumran caves in the Dead Sea Scrolls as being the most correct version)- and that Issaiah (Al Yassa'a) was just following and enforcing what was revealed to Esau in the past? (the Gospel of Esau, with Jesus of Palestine being attributed it by "malice", whereas he was just the Gospel follower/enforcer in Palestine?)...
that means the Injeel (revealed by Allah to Esau of Yemen) was already available well before the Jesus of Palestine?
Thanks in advance
Peace
Nabil
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Thank you Pazuzu!
bravo -
Hi Pazuzu
You say
Has anyone EVER heard of Egypt being described as a "tribe" or a "clan"?
If you look at the original Aramaic text of Zecheriah, it says ?Mishfaht Misrim?. The word ?Mishfaht? is an Aramaic word meaning TRIBE.
Since I do not have the original text of Zecheriah, I went directly to an Aramaic online dictionary http//www.atour.com/cgi-bin/dictionary.cgi?string=m%27shfaht&B1=Search&Search_Field=Meaning&VTI-GROUP=0
and searched for the word "Mishfaht" with all possible spellings but found nothing.
Can you please make sure of the spelling?I also searched for the word "tribe" and found "B'SHaB,+aA"in some lexicons and "B'SHaRB'T,aA" in others; and in some it is simply " SHaB,+eA" (Arabic Sha'b)!
"Mishfaht", howevr, sounds like "safh", taking into consideration that the "S" in Arabic is an alteration of the sound "Sh" in Hebrew at least. Safh is the bottom of the mountain and could mean "valley".Egypt shows as (B'MeTSReYN) with variation of the first B as M or L.
So even "Misrim" is not a correct spelling. -
The actual pronunciation is "mishpaht" (with a "P'
If you look in the "Hebrew" text of Zecheria, you can see the following word
Spell it out. It's "mishpaht" Aparently, the so-called "Hebrew" (which stole the squared Aramaic letters) replaced the letter "f" in the Semitic alphabet with the letter "p". But the correct pronunciation is "Mishfaht". This confusion came as a result of the Zionists infusing this FAKE language with a distinctly German dialect, and then coming out to the world with their claim that it was the revived and "Divine Tongue".
The truth of the matter is, if I showed you the similarities between this "Hebrew" and the ancient Yemeni dialect, you will not believe your eyes. Everythng from the conjugation of the verbs, to the single/plural atricles, to the hundreds of words common between the two, indicates that they originated in the same region. What we call "Hebrew" today is nothing but an ancient Yemeni dialect that uses SQUARED ARAMAIC as the vehicle for its writing, and is infused with hundreds of Arabic and Yiddish (German rural) terms. The expert liguists in the Semitic tongue have confirmed this (see the works of Salibi, Moscati, Rossi, Fadhel al Rubay'i - among others).
This joke that they have passed on humanity must be exposed here and now.
Now here's what you can do If you have Word 2010, just copy/paste , as it is, and click on "translate" (Hebrew - English).
You will get FAMILY.
Hence, the passage in Zechariah is mentioning the Family of "Egypt". In some translations of the Torah, it was rendered as Clan of "Egypt".
Now, the word "Egypt" was the one that replaced the original in the so-called "Hebrew" text.
Again, you can spell it out
= mem (m)
= tzade (tz)
= resh (r)
= yod (i or y)
- mem (as it appears when it comes at the end of a word)
So it's MTZRIM That's exactly how they pronounce it.
But why is that? Why not "Msrim" ? That is because the EUROPEAN KHAZARS who are the real Jews of today, could not pronounce the heavy 's' sound of the Yemeni Semitic language which they STOLE, so they replaced it with "tz".
You don't believe me?Go to this "Hebrew" alphabet and see the order of the letters a - b - g - d - h - w - z - h - t' - k - l - m - n - s - 3 - p - tz - q - r - sh - t.
You see those two letters in bold?
If you look at the alphabet of Arabic, which is the proto-Semitic tongue, you will find that same order of letters, exactly as it appears in their alleged "Hebrew" (minus 6 letters which do not appear in Hebrew).
Again look at the two bold letters and .
These are pronounced as "f" and "sadd" (the heavy 's' sound).
The Jews replaced "f" and "sadd" with "p" and "tz"
So now you know what I meant when I said "msirm".
And no, it does not mean "Valley", because that would not fit in the context of the OT passage
"And if the family/clan of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles" (Zecherian 141
How can a valley "go" and "come" about and "keep the feast of tabernacles" ?
Moreover, I have already shown you that Msrim is the PLURAL of Msr. And it's the proper name of a family or clan that Joseph lived among. And this the same clan that Moses was later raised brought up in. And the head of this clan was called Far3oun, and his wife raised Moses when he was a child. And this was the same clan from which Abraham married. The Torah says that Hagar was from the land of MSRM.
And it has nothing to do with Egypt whatsoever.
Soon I will reveal to you who this clan was (if you haven't figured it out already).
@theNabster
I will answer you in a PM if you don't mind, because this thread is not about Jesus.
Peace...
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@theNabster
I will answer you in a PM if you don't mind, because this thread is not about Jesus.
Peace...
Salaam, Pazuzu,
Couldn't you publish it in the thread on 3isa?
Actually I would also like to know and I suppose there are more peole that would like to know.
Thanks,
Salaam
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Moreover, I have already shown you that Msrim is the PLURAL of Msr. And it's the proper name of a family or clan that Joseph lived among. And this the same clan that Moses was later raised brought up in. And the head of this clan was called Far3oun, and his wife raised Moses when he was a child. And this was the same clan from which Abraham married. The Torah says that Hagar was from the land of MSRM.
And it has nothing to do with Egypt whatsoever.
Soon I will reveal to you who this clan was (if you haven't figured it out already).
Peace Pazuzu,
You keep perpetual posting which clearly contradicts Qur'an and running away much like the numerology infatuated who keep posting multiples never respond to a thing. Qur'an clearly says they are separate peoples...
7120 and fell down the magicians prostrating
7121 they said we believe in Lord the creations
7122 Lord Moses and Aaron
...
7127 and said the chiefs from nation Pharaoh you leave Moses and his nation to cause corruption in the earth and forsake you and your gods said we will kill their sons and will let live their women/females and indeed over them subjugatorsBTW, on the stealing/borrowing part, in Arabic or Semitic no "p" sound so they use "f" instead as in "feel" elephant initially of Persian origin same as other borrowed words like The Romans. Simply look up the history of chess piece elephant/bishop still today in Spanish called alfil...
Chess first called Shatranj referenced by Hindu ambassador who came to Persia from India during reign of Naushirawan (Chosroes I, 531 - 579 CE) which afterwards the game spread to Arabs.
http//www.chessvariants.org/piececlopedia.dir/alfil.html
"As Murray reports in his Short History of Chess, the game hardly changed when the Muslims got it from the Persians. So the Persian pil lept two spaces diagonally. Murray reports in the same book that the Muslims merely modified the name of the piece to suit their own pronunciation, changing the p to an f for the word fil, which became the piece's Arab name. This got prefixed with the Arabic definite article, al, to form the name Alfil.
When the names of fil and alfil reached Europe, they sometimes changed even more, but the transformed names eventually became associated with the Bishop. Although the name of Alfil is still used for the Bishop in some languages, such as Spanish, English-speakers began the tradition of reserving the name Alfil for the original piece."
http//history.chess.free.fr/images/shatranj/fil-7-8th-mma.jpg
Fil (Elephant/Bishop), origin unknown (Iran, Irak, India?), 7th-8th c.?, The Metropolitan Museum of Art
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Peace Pazuzu,
You keep perpetual posting which clearly contradicts Qur'an and running away much like the numerology infatuated who keep posting multiples never respond to a thing. Qur'an clearly says they are separate peoples...
727 and said the chiefs from nation Pharaoh you leave Moses and his nation to cause corruption in the earth and forsake you and your gods said we will kill their sons and will let live their women/females and indeed over them subjugators
Salaam NDP
Thank you for posting the above surah and I note that here is mentioned the "Chief" from the nation of Musa, which could give us a further clue as to whether there were Chiefs, as well as a Fir3an who were involved in managing the affairs of Msr, and was the King(Malik) of the story of Yousaff but the chief, ie Governor of some part of Msr. hmm