Kitab (k-t-b) : Does it really mean 'a book'?

farida

Pl specific link for Alif Laam Meem.

salaam
Now that is being lazy brother. If you just ignore the posts from members, and only follow from post 1 to post 15, you would see that it's all about alif laam miym and it is still not finished.

Is it from this site
http//www.thehiddenbook.net/Enter.html

Yes this is his site, but its needs to be updated. Brother al-amiyr has spent all his time on this forum so his site has been neglected and his forum is not active yet, as we are too busy here.
salaam

bkanwar2

Tenth form of verb, is written as =

So to called letters under discussion are written like this

Now let us convert root into the 9th form of verb. It would become , the first two Hemzas/Alifs, due Idgham (rule of combining letters) rule could also be written as . Which is exactly the imlah (spellings) of script of Quran.

Bender

Tenth form of verb, is written as =

So to called letters under discussion are written like this

Now let us convert root into the 10th form of verb. It would become , the first two Hemzas/Alifs, due Idgham (rule of combining letters) rule could also be written as . Which is exactly the imlah (spellings) of script of Quran.

Salaam,

Was this an answer to my question?

If so, then I still can't see "Man (Mankind) has suffered intensely".

Salaam,
Bender

al-amiyr

Tenth form of verb, is written as =

So to called letters under discussion are written like this

Now let us convert root into the 10th form of verb. It would become , the first two Hemzas/Alifs, due Idgham (rule of combining letters) rule could also be written as . Which is exactly the imlah (spellings) of script of Quran.

+salaam brother

I think that you made a mistake with the numbering of the verb forms.

That is the 9th form if we count from the ground form fa-"a-la
The tenth form is istaf'ala
The 9th form would be if-"a-lla
I can see you know it. It might just be hasty slip like we all do. I have also drawn a diagram of this in The Qur'aan Cosmological Model. I post it here.

+salaam

http//www.theholytablemountain.net/lexmod2.png

bkanwar2

Salaam,

Was this an answer to my question?

If so, then I still can't see "Man (Mankind) has suffered intensely".

Salaam,
Bender

Root means "He (a man) was in pain or suffered"

http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000119.pdf

Waazan/9th form of verb adds meanings of intensity to the root. To confirm this please see William wright Vol 1 page 43 (5.

Please use formula of the language to derive the real meanings "Root + Waazan" = Meanings of word.

"Man (Mankind) has suffered intensely".

bkanwar2

+salaam brother

I think that you made a mistake with the numbering of the verb forms.

That is the 9th form if we count from the ground form fa-"a-la
The tenth form is istaf'ala
The 9th form would be if-"a-lla
I can see you know it. It might just be hasty slip like we all do. I have also drawn a diagram of this in The Qur'aan Cosmological Model. I post it here.

+salaam

Thanks a lot brother. I corrected my mistake.

Regards

mirjamnur

Root means "He (a man) was in pain or suffered"

http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000119.pdf

Waazan/9th form of verb adds meanings of intensity to the root. To confirm this please see William wright Vol 1 page 43 (5.

Please use formula of the language to derive the real meanings "Root + Waazan" = Meanings of word.

"Man (Mankind) has suffered intensely".

Salam bkanwar
please can you make a special topic?? it's very interesting. And please - if possible can you share those sites from William wright?
Thank you )
Salam

CamKrist

I decided to give a hand and sent a post into social bookmarks. I hope the popularity will rise in.

Bender

Root means "He (a man) was in pain or suffered"

http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000119.pdf

Waazan/9th form of verb adds meanings of intensity to the root. To confirm this please see William wright Vol 1 page 43 (5.

Please use formula of the language to derive the real meanings "Root + Waazan" = Meanings of word.

"Man (Mankind) has suffered intensely".

Salaam,

Sorry, I confirm only with The Quran as reference. As far as I know William wright or LaneLexicon is not the author of the Quran and I can also not find a verse which states that we have to look into LaneLexicon/William wright to confirm the meanings of the words of The Quran.

I realy don't understand your method, you take whole words split them in parts add some extra letters and make new meanings. If Allah wanted to split them in parts like you do then that is very easy for Him.
As an example I can give you the word ALLAH. I know from your other post that you splitted this word like this
allathi
La
illah .
If Allah wanted to split it like you do then there would be not a single time ALLAH but everywhere those 3 words, just like in
5922

Besides this why don't you go further and also split into parts, you are flexibel with this stuff, I am sure you can do the same trick also for and after you splitted this into something new then you can split the new words again in parts and make new ones etc etc etc.

Salaam,
Bender

ps Joe for offtopic -[

bkanwar2

Salaam,

Sorry, I confirm only with The Quran as reference. As far as I know William wright or LaneLexicon is not the author of the Quran and I can also not find a verse which states that we have to look into LaneLexicon/William wright to confirm the meanings of the words of The Quran.

I realy don't understand your method, you take whole words split them in parts add some extra letters and make new meanings. If Allah wanted to split them in parts like you do then that is very easy for Him.
As an example I can give you the word ALLAH. I know from your other post that you splitted this word like this
allathi
La
illah .
If Allah wanted to split it like you do then there would be not a single time ALLAH but everywhere those 3 words, just like in
5922

Besides this why don't you go further and also split into parts, you are flexibel with this stuff, I am sure you can do the same trick also for and after you splitted this into something new then you can split the new words again in parts and make new ones etc etc etc.

Salaam,
Bender

ps Joe for offtopic -[

Brother Bender, what everyone today thinks is Quran, is its translation. Which is not, what the real text is. The real text above this translation is what I am trying to understand and translate, irrespective of what translation or tradition has told us.

Do you know basics of language? If not and you really want to understand the text in question. My humble suggestion would be to please try to learn the language. If you need help. I shall be happy to lend a hand as much as I can.

Salam bkanwar
please can you make a special topic?? it's very interesting. And please - if possible can you share those sites from William wright?
Thank you )
Salam

What do you mean? Start a seperate thread for these so to called Huroof e Muqataat? If so I can. I have understood the meanings of most of these so called letters, except few, for long time now

Here is a link for Wiiliam Wright's grammar book.

http//www.ghazali.org/arabic/WrightArabicGrammarVol1.pdf

Badar

mirjamnur

Salam bkanwar2

What do you mean? Start a seperate thread for these so to called Huroof e Muqataat? If so I can. I have understood the meanings of most of these so called letters, except few, for long time now

yes. I'm very curious. I have already received a variety of opinions from different members of this site, but for me is not completely satisfactory. So i wait for your explanation. Thanks and Peace

Bender

Brother Bender, what everyone today thinks is Quran, is its translation. Which is not, what the real text is. The real text above this translation is what I am trying to understand and translate, irrespective of what translation or tradition has told us.

Do you know basics of language? If not and you really want to understand the text in question. My humble suggestion would be to please try to learn the language. If you need help. I shall be happy to lend a hand as much as I can.Badar

Salaam brother,

RED Do you mean the arabic text of The Book is also a translation? If so, then please give a verse for this understanding to support your claim.

BLUE nope I only now how to read a little bit.

GREEN Thank you for your offer, inshaAllah I will accept it and inshaAllah I will learn from you, but on condition that you support every claim of yours with ONLY examples from The Quran.

First I want to learn why you splitted the word ALLAH in those 3 part.
5922 clearly disapproves for me your understanding as they are used in the same sentence.
We can create a seperate topic for this as this is way off-topic.

Salaam,
Bender

bkanwar2

Salaam brother,
First I want to learn why you splitted the word ALLAH in those 3 part.
5922 clearly disapproves for me your understanding as they are used in the same sentence.
We can create a seperate topic for this as this is way off-topic.

Salaam,
Bender

Please read my write up at the bottom. You will find your answer. It written in simple English with readers in mind who are not familiar with the language. If you still have questions about it. Please feel free to ask.

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599853.50

bkanwar2

By the way, the write up/break down of so to called word/noun, Allah, has been on this forum and several others for over 2 years. I hate to use word challenge, but it is like a linguistic challenge from Quran and its language. There has been no objection to it except for one that is already addressed in this link; citing its use, both in language and current translation of Quran, as well, from books of the language with due references.

Regards

mirjamnur

Salam bkanwar

i read the article but i have a question. the article states

Let us turn to Qur'an itself for evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word containing a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.

21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
47 and 432, is the word same concept.

but lil- muttaqin ( li+al+ muttaqin) and lil-rigal (li+al+rigal) is not the same as al mutaqin and al rigal. the second (al rigal) yes, is lam schamseia it becomes arrigal- for the idhram. but the word in the Quran is not ALILRIGAL is lil rigal (li+al+ rigal= lialrigal what is impossible to pronouncing so lilrigal 'for' the men as in 2.1 'for' the muttagin

i don't know what has this to do with Al + ilah= Allah? alilah? here we have AL ILAHA not LILAHA confused

so please you can explain??
thank you and Salam

bkanwar2

Salam bkanwar

i read the article but i have a question. the article states

Let us turn to Qur'an itself for evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word containing a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.

21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
47 and 432, is the word same concept.

but lil- muttaqin ( li+al+ muttaqin) and lil-rigal (li+al+rigal) is not the same as al mutaqin and al rigal. the second (al rigal) yes, is lam schamseia it becomes arrigal- for the idhram. but the word in the Quran is not ALILRIGAL is lil rigal (li+al+ rigal= lialrigal what is impossible to pronouncing so lilrigal 'for' the men as in 2.1 'for' the muttagin

i don't know what has this to do with Al + ilah= Allah? alilah? here we have AL ILAHA not LILAHA confused

so please you can explain??
thank you and Salam

These two examples are given to high light the point, as well to differentiate the difference between two kinds of "Al" used in Quranic text. In both as well . The particle "Al" is different than used in word . In former two words, it is "Al" for making these words Marafa i.e, to make Nakra/common noun as definite/Marafa noun.

When the preposition "lee" is prefixed to words which are made definite due prefixing of particle "Al"; according to rule of the language "Alif/Hemza" of definite particle "Al" is dropped, whereas, "lam" is retained in the script. However, we find this not to be the case for word in the Quranic script. Therefore, "Al" in case of word Allah can not be the definite particle "Al"; as it completely disappears in the Quranic text, when particle "lee" is prefixed to it. This proves the point that it is a different particle not governed by rules of definite particle "Al"

Which leads to conclusion that other word similar to definite article "Al" is a contraction of . Since this contraction is different from the definite article "Al". Hence, rule governing definite particle "Al" of only dropping the "alif/Hemza" shall not apply. Therefore, whole of this contraction of word is dropped when preposition "lee" is added to "Allah" and it is written as , instead of two "Lams" at the beginning. Which should have been the case had this first "Al" would have been a definite particle "Al".

mirjamnur

Salam bkanwar

These two examples are given to high light the point, as well to differentiate the difference between two kinds of "Al" used in Quranic text. In both as well . The particle "Al" is different than used in word . In former two words, it is "Al" for making these words Marafa i.e, to make Nakra/common noun as definite/Marafa noun.

When the preposition "lee" is prefixed to words which are made definite due prefixing of particle "Al"; according to rule of the language "Alif/Hemza" of definite particle "Al" is dropped, whereas, "lam" is retained in the script. However, we find this not to be the case for word in the Quranic script. Therefore, "Al" in case of word Allah can not be the definite particle "Al"; as it completely disappears in the Quranic text, when particle "lee" is prefixed to it. This proves the point that it is a different particle not governed by rules of definite particle "Al"

Which leads to conclusion that other word similar to definite article "Al" is a contraction of . Since this contraction is different from the definite article "Al". Hence, rule governing definite particle "Al" of only dropping the "alif/Hemza" shall not apply. Therefore, whole of this contraction of word is dropped when preposition "lee" is added to "Allah" and it is written as , instead of two "Lams" at the beginning. Which should have been the case had this first "Al" would have been a definite particle "Al".

i start to see the picture --- ) but please can you give me more examples??

English is a foreign language for me as arabic too - for such linguistic explanations a hindrance if I do not exactly understand everything.
Sorry but I would like to understand it. Thank you.

in german "gutes Ding will Weile haben

peace

bkanwar2

Salam bkanwari start to see the picture --- ) but please can you give me more examples??

Please explain what examples or in which respect?

English is a foreign language for me as arabic too - for such linguistic explanations a hindrance if I do not exactly understand everything.
Sorry but I would like to understand it. Thank you.

We both are in the same boat, both of these languages are foreign for me as well. So do not worry. If one has a will the hurdles could be over come with efforts.

in german "gutes Ding will Weile haben

peace

Do you speak German? Is that your mother tongue? Man if you do, you can compliment lot of my efforts. There is so much work by German scholars in Classic Arabic language, which is still inaccessible to us none speakers of the language.

mirjamnur

Salam bkanwar2

Please explain what examples or in which respect?
for the given explanation. there are examples in the Quran?? As the example from Allah- i need to SEE and to REFLECT about other examples. thanks ;D

We both are in the same boat, both of these languages are foreign for me as well. So do not worry. If one has a will the hurdles could be over come with efforts.

Do you speak German? Is that your mother tongue? Man if you do, you can compliment lot of my efforts. There is so much work by German scholars in Classic Arabic language, which is still inaccessible to us none speakers of the language.

Yes it's my mother tongue- as Swiss German also If i can help anything, let me know!
peace - and i;m still waiting for your post (ALM- ALMR- SAD_ HM- etc etc........)
Thank you and peace peace

Mazhar

Let us turn to Qur'an itself for evidence. In Arabic script as well in the Qur'an, where a preposition ?Lee? is added in to a word containing a definite article ?Al? . Alif is dropped and so Lam of the definite article ?Al? joins with ?Lam? of preposition. Let us illustrate this point with some word examples from Qur'an itself.

21 Alif of ?Al? gone, lam is present and preposition ?Lee? added.
47 and 432, is the word same concept.

Salamun alaiki,

In the second case Prep does not join with L but with R in pronunciation. First example has Jezm on Lam and second has no jezm over it. It is about division of alphabets what are termed Sun and Moon letters.

"Al" is used to put the word in determinate state. In Allah and ArRehman it is not article but integral part of the Names.

You can read a good and comprehensive article on this Article in wikipedia
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-