Story of Solomon , Queen of Saba and Jinns
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Salaam
Quran is reason and logic. Understanding Quran needs a mind purification of all bullshits invented by humans.
My french friend Jinn Dukhani, proposed a striking traduction of verses of story of Solomon and queen and sheba.To understand this story, even who reject Bukhari & co have to reject what is left in his mind by Bukhari & co.
Let?go and begin based on the monotheist traduction found in free-minds.org
2715 And We bestowed upon David and Solomon knowledge, and they both said "Praise be to God who preferred us over many of His believing servants."
No problems
2716 And Solomon inherited from David, and he said "O people, we have been taught how to understand the speech of the creatures that fly (TAYR), and we have been given from everything. This is indeed an evident grace."
One problem
TAYR are not birds. Tayr ol insane means knowledge of humans about God
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Tay is also used in verses 7-131 and 17-13 in the non bird meaning2717 And the soldiers (Jounoud) of Solomon were gathered, comprising of mankind and Jinn and birds (TAYR), for they were to be spread out.
Two misunderstandings.
First one Jinn doesn?t mean ?amazing creature?. Jinn is simply human Imagination that gather in communities. I will not discuss this point in this thread.
What is meant in this verse is that Solomon can mobilize (jannada) human, their imagination and was given by God an access to all the knowledge gathered by humans in the religious fields (true and false beliefs).If 34-12, we are told that human souls (RIAH) are visible (SHAHR) to Solomon when they come and go.
2718 Until they came to a valley of ants (naml) a female ant said "O ants, enter your homes else you will be crushed (Hattama) by Solomon and his soldiers while they do not notice."
Naml is not ant. Naml means also lies and namlaton is a despicable liar. Here, we are told that when Solomon enter a pagan or idolater city, priests alert their followers that Solomon will destruct their beliefs. Capacity of Solomon to convert people to reason, wich is islam, is well known.
2719 He then smiled, amused by what she said. And he said "My Lord, help me to be thankful for the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and that I may do good works that please You, and admit me by Your mercy with Your righteous servants."
No problems. Idolaters and pagan beliefs are of course laughable and reason is a gift from God.
2720 And he inspected the birds (TAYR), then said "Why do I not see the hoopoe (HodHod), or is he among those absent?"
Totally non sense.
Once a time, when he was reviewing the beliefs of neighboring countries/valleys, he remarked that one of his emissaries, particularly talkative (hodhod) was absent and asked about him2721 "I will punish him (adhab) severely, or I will kill him (Dhabh), else he should have a clear excuse."
Adhab have also meaning of separate and Dhabh have also meaning of putting away.
Absolutely non sense to kill the poor Hodhod for being late. Solomon is only speaking about dismissing our hodhod from his emissary function2722 But the hoopoe did not stay away long, then he said "I have seen what you do not know, and I have come to you from Sheba with news which is certain."
Our ?speaking bird? (very funny), came with new news about religious beliefs of country of Sheba.
2723 "I found them ruled by a woman, and she was given all possessions, and she had a great throne (Aarch Aadhim)."
The problem here is the word Arch. Notice that it is the only time that Arch Aadhim is used for other that Aarch of God. Aarch have vegetal meaning, like Jinn and Jenna, and simply means human culture. So Sheba is a great civilization for that time. But the real and great culture is of course, aarch of God.
2724 "And I found her and her people prostrating to the sun instead of God! And the devil had made their works appear good to them, so he kept them away from the path, for they are not being guided."
No problems.
2725 "Will they not prostrate to God who brings out what is hidden in the heavens and the earth, and He knows what you hide and what you declare?"
No problems.
2726 "God, there is no god except He, the Lord of the supreme Throne (Aarch)."
No problems. Note opposition between the two aarchs
2727 He said "We will see if you are being truthful or are one of those who lie."
No problems.
2728 "Take this letter of mine and deliver it to them, then withdraw from them and observe what they respond with."
Quite no problems. The only funny question is why to use a simple bird when Solomon had powerful Jinns that obey him ?
2729 She said "O commanders, a noble letter has been delivered to me."
No problems.
2730 "It is from Solomon, and it reads 'In the name of God, the Almighty, the Merciful'"
Hope that reader noticed the famous Bismillah.
2731 "'Do not be arrogant towards me and come to me as submitters'"
Bismillah indicate that 27-31 is Allah words. So Queen of Sheba is simply asked to become Muslim
2732 She said "O commanders, advise me in this matter of mine, for I will not take a decision until you give testimony."
No problems. Please note that queen of sheba is a wise women.
2733 They said "We are a people of strength and mighty in power. But the decision is yours, so see what you will command."
Commanders responded that they are ready to war. However they submit to Queen of Sheba decision. It is also a sign of wise commandment
2734 She said "When the kings (Moulouk) enter a town they destroy (afsada) it and make its most noble people humiliated. It is such that they do."
Afsada is not destruction. Notice also that QS (queen of sheba) is mainly worried about noble people who will be humiliated. Remember that idolaters and pagans beliefs are laughable.
Aizza and adhilla expression is used also in verse 5-54.2735 "And I will send to them a gift, then I will see with what the messengers will return."
No problems.
2736 So when they came to Solomon he said "Are you providing me with wealth? What God has provided for me is far better than what He has given you. Now you are happy with your gift!"
Solomon cannot accept gifts or political submission when God ask for Islam. We know all that islam allow free choice. 27-36 proove that we are on the theological war field.
2737 "Go back to them. For we shall come to them with soldiers (Jounoud) the like of which they have never seen, and we will drive them out humiliated, while they are feeble."
No problems. Humiliation of pagan or idolaters beliefs is again here. Jounoud is a clear reference to Youjaniddou of verse 27-17. It is a theological war.
2738 He said "O commanders, which of you can bring me her throne (aarch) before they come to me in submission (Muslimoun)?"
Totally nonsense. Solomon rejects gifts and ask for a throne ????
In fact, Solomon is simply asking for details about the culture of kingdom of Sheba.
In the mind of Solomon, there is no doubts about the fact that Sheba will become muslim. The power to convert pagans is a gift from God.2739 A powerful being (ifrit) from among the Jinn said "I will bring it to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy."
Ifrit is a perverted mind. ?Before rise from your station? is just exageration
2740 And one who had knowledge from the Book said "I will bring it to you before you blink." So when he saw it resting before him, he said "This is from the grace of my Lord, so that He tests me whether I am thankful or whether I reject. As for he who is thankful, he is thankful for himself, and as for he who rejects, then my Lord is Rich, Bountiful."
This is a simple embodiment of god promise that all ?Tayr? of human will be at disposition of Solomon.The knowledge about Sheba Belief was already present in Solomon court. A man having already the knowledege asked for explianed to Solomon what he wanted. And, of course, Solomon thanked God again for that.
How a man with knowledge can make teleportation of a throne? Funny no ?
2741 He said "Disguise (Ankirou) her throne so we may see if she will be guided or if she will be of those who are not guided."
Totally non sense. Why disguise the throne if Solomon want the queen to recognize it ?
Solomon is asking his court to find theological arguments to criticize and denigrate Sheba beliefs. That is the meaning of Ankirou2742 So when she came, it was said "Is your throne like this?" She said "It appears to be similar." "And we were given knowledge before her, and we had submitted."
Solomon simply discussed with queen of sheba about her beliefs (make a kind of Hajj with Hojaj). Queen of Sheba recognized that her beliefs were like that.
Solomon told his court then that Queen of Sheba is not stupid but that she only not received the knowledge for God.2743 And she was prevented by that which she served besides God. She was of the people who were rejecters.
No problems.
2744 It was said to her "Enter the palace (Sarh)." So when she saw it she thought there was a pool (lojjaton), and she uncovered her legs (kachafat an saqiha). He said "It is a palace (Sarh) paved (moumarrad) with crystal (qawarir)." She said "My Lord, I have wronged myself; and I submit with Solomon to God, Lord of the worlds."
Many problems.
We can deduce from classical traduction that throne was in the garden since Queen of Sheeba didn?t entered yet the palace (very funny, no ?).
More funny, when Queen of sheba saw the palace, she thought it was a pool (ha, ha, ha).
More and more funny. When she saw the pool, she uncovered her legs.
Funny again. Solomon told her it was crystal. We know all that crystal reflects image. Perhaps the pool was on the ceiling of the palace ?Let be reasonable. Sarh and saraha is reason and sincerity. After exposing and having criticized sheba beliefs, Solomon exposed islam to queen of Sheba. Sheba felt like in a storm (please see use of word lojjaton in verse 24-40).
Legs (saak) in Arabic means also an affair of big importance
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The expression kachafat an saqiha means
م .
That is pay great attention to a great affair.
And this expression is used by Quran himself in verse 68-42
6842 The Day will come when they will be exposed (youkchifou an saaq), and they will be required to prostrate, but they will be unable to.When the wise queen of Sheba saw the truth, used his mind and reason, she accepted islam.
Islam is reason and only idolaters following human tales can believe in incoherencies and inconsistent storiesWhen somebody is ready to accept stories including speaking ants, speaking birds, throne teleportations and so on, he should ask himself if the process of his mind purification is completed.
Peace
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Peace noshirk,
Thank God for this work you and your French friend have put into proper understanding of this story. It was truly amazing, since most of the traditional understanding did not make any sense.
I am glad people take their time purifying God's message from falsehood.
God is surely with you and your friend.
You rarely, if ever, speak nonsense.
God bless you
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Thank you @noshirk for this excellent and beautiful post, and good work in demystifying the Qur'an!
O, if only we could have this kind of translation of the whole Qur'an! Alas!
It would make much more sense...
I am on the verge of abandoning the Qur'an altogether because of the translations, which, the more time passes, the more I realize I cannot trust them, and on the other hand I have no intention whatsoever to learn Arabic language!
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I am on the verge of abandoning the Qur'an altogether because of the translations, which, the more time passes, the more I realize I cannot trust them, and on the other hand I have no intention whatsoever to learn Arabic language!
Then it's your loss, you can not say that you were not given a chance sun
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Salam and Thank you Man of Faith
Quran is like Science and science, wich is the other block of ayats of God, go ahead by reason, new hypothesis and new theories.
at each time, a new interpretation can fit better than the older one.We don't have to be afraid to make errors.
If we are afraid, we will stay for ever at the stage of old beliefs worshipping our ancestors through what they said
That is shirk and totally forbidden.God knows if we are sincere or not and it is impossible for us to harm him.
we are thus free to think as long we are sincere.
All what we call truth is a temporary truth until we find a better explanation or a better theory.Peace
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Salam and Peace,
thanks for this great article, there was also an article from RS_Aitkinen that can complete yours or visversa
I took it from this thread
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600414.0The story of Solomon in 2715-44 proves that "islam" means peacemaking and "muslim" means peacemaker. There are 4 chronological events that take place
- Solomon asks the leader of Sheba to make her people peacemakers.
- She sends him a gift but does not commit to lasting peace, or even mention peace in correspondence.
- Solomon threatens her.
- In the end, she finally makes peace. Her peace happens to be for the god, which is good but not always the case (4917 above).
There are important details in between, but I wish to focus on the part about peacemakers ("muslimun".
...
...
2729-33, 35-37 and 44
She said, "O you chiefs, I received an honorable letter. It is from Solomon and it is in the name of the god, the almighty, the merciful. It says 'Do not rise against me, and come to me as peacemakers'."She said, "O you chiefs, advise concerning my command. I will not make a command until you testify."
They said, "We have strength and we have mighty power. The command is yours so see what you will command."...
(She said,) "I am sending them a gift; I will see what the messengers return with."
So, when it came to Solomon he said, "Do you reinforce me with wealth? What the god has given me is better than what he has given you. No, it is you who are happy with your gift. Return to them; we will come to them with soldiers/forces they cannot face. We will evict them humiliated, feeble."...
She said, "Lord, I have wronged myself, and I make peace with Solomon for the god, lord of the worlds."
If we apply the sectarian view of surrendering/submitting to the god, the sequence would be
- Solomon asks the leader of Sheba to make her people surrender/submit to the god.
- She sends him a gift but does not commit to surrendering/submitting to the god.
- Solomon threatens her.
Why would Solomon threaten her with attack if she was peaceful? He wouldn't. He threatened her because she refused peace, and he was a peacemaker.
4816 Say to the nomads who stayed behind, "You will be called on to fight a people who have mighty power unless they make peace."
Sectarian view
"You will be called on to fight a people who have mighty power unless they surrender/submit to the god."
Why would we be fighting people to turn them to the god? We wouldn't. We fight only in self defense until peace is made, and we are peacemakers. Even captives of war must be freed and treaties must be established. The great reading is a book of peace.
PEACE NOW / SALAM AL-AN /
Salam = Peace
Islam = PeacemakingThis is my understanding, may the god improve it.
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Thank you @noshirk for this excellent and beautiful post, and good work in demystifying the Qur'an!
O, if only we could have this kind of translation of the whole Qur'an! Alas!
It would make much more sense...
I am on the verge of abandoning the Qur'an altogether because of the translations, which, the more time passes, the more I realize I cannot trust them, and on the other hand I have no intention whatsoever to learn Arabic language!
Salaam God submitter
you cannot know the time i spent trying to understand some aspects of torah or trying to read about zoroastrism.
i feel the same sensation as you also when reading books of history without knowing what is true and what is false.many people knows arabic and cannot understand story of solomon as Dukhani did.
People who don't knows arabic can always help contributing with their knowledge or pointing inconsistencies.Monotheistic traduction is a good traduction but is incomplete.
but never forget this about quran3-7 He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established, clear meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are not entirely clear. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is not clear, seeking discord, and searching for hidden meanings in it, but no one knows its interpretation except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" only people with brain will remember that.
so abandoning Quran, whose verses are in majority clears, only because some verses are not clear is not a good argument.
Truth is less important than beeing on the true path. Total truth is only for God.
Peace
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Bonjour noshirk.
Merci.
Quel est l origine de cette draduction?
Je veux bien lire , je suis curieux.
Pouvez vous me donner l adresse/link, si c est possible.
Merci d avance.
Peace.
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Bonjour noshirk.
Merci.
Quel est l origine de cette draduction?
Je veux bien lire , je suis curieux.
Pouvez vous me donner l adresse/link, si c est possible.
Merci d avance.
Peace.
Bonjour Good Logic
trouv? ici
http//nawaat.org/portail/2012/12/05/ibadat-el-chouyoukhs-6-anges-jinns-demons-et-satan/
Cette traduction est la r?sultante d'une grande r?flexion sur les Jinns, Satan etc...
Jinn Dukhani (il semble d?sormais refuser le titre de Cheikh) est arriv? au huiti?me ?pisode.Son style est tr?s particulier mais il ne faut pas oublier qu'il "pr?che" sur un site non religieux.
Cordialement
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Peace noshirk.
L adresse que tu mas donner arrive ici a " Free minds.org"?
Peut etre il y a une faute.
Voulez vous essayer une deixieme fois c il vous plait?
Merci beaucoup.
Peace.
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Bonjour good logic (Salaam Farida)
copie et colle ce lien (paste and copy this link);
http//nawaat.org/portail/2012/12/05/ibadat-el-chouyoukhs-6-anges-jinns-demons-et-satan/?a marches (it works).
je ne sais pas pourquoi nawaat.org est remplac? par free-minds.org dans le hyperlien.
(i don't know why nawaat.org is replaced by free-minds.org in the hypertext).?a doit encore ?tre un coup des Jinns. Qu'est ce qu'ils sont farceurs !
(it must be a farce from Jinns. What jokers they are!)cordialement (friendly)
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Bonjour good logic (Salaam Farida)
copie et colle ce lien (paste and copy this link);
http//nawaat.org/portail/2012/12/05/ibadat-el-chouyoukhs-6-anges-jinns-demons-et-satan/?a marches (it works).
je ne sais pas pourquoi nawaat.org est remplac? par free-minds.org dans le hyperlien.
(i don't know why nawaat.org is replaced by free-minds.org in the hypertext).?a doit encore ?tre un coup des Jinns. Qu'est ce qu'ils sont farceurs !
(it must be a farce from Jinns. What jokers they are!)cordialement (friendly)
salaam et merci
Dit mois pourqois vous avez adoptee pour votre langue de communication ici, quand vous savez tres bien que le langue pour 'Free-Minds est strictement anglais? Vous pouvez toujours discutez en francais sous un autre detaille de Free-Minds.
peace
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Peace noshirk, Farida.
Thank you both.
C est fini maintenant!
I have got it.
Both the link and what Farida said.
Back to English now. Sorry!
Peace.
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Assalamu alaykum, thank you for the explanation but I still have to research it for myself, inshallah. We also have to be aware that we are limited in knowledge - we falsely assume that this is the peak of civilization and we put our own mind as a criterion and since it is limited we can easily fall into wrong conclusions.
I have recently read a book and this sentence stuck in my mind "One of the things that make life so miraculous is that you can understand it, know ?the truth,? and know that anything against the laws of nature (God?s law) are impossible. If miracles were possible, it would mean life is not understandable, that there is no truth of life. "
...so I started asking myself if all miracles mentioned in the Qur'an are actually physically explainable (to me the above sentence made sense especially since we know that God doesn't change his way according to the Qur'an 3362). There were some possible explanations for some of the stories except for the Solomon story and the Moses story I am still seeking the real meaning and explanation...alhamdulillah I came upon this post ) Do you have some explanation for the Moses and the splitting of the sea? Jazakumullah khayren.
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Peace Bro noshirk (its irritating...plz tell either ur real or nick name)
I do agree with ur reasoning.
For a light side, I am a B.S. Undergraduate Freshman. As a matter of fact, I studied a course in my first sem on organismal biology. It concerned mainly about the ant and wasp community and their behaviour. We were also involved in fieldwork a bit. And we were asked to submit our analysis reports on ant behaviour observed, and my report started with "And the queen of the ants said "....."" from the quranic verse. I but think ants are capable enough of conversation.
I don't know it was becoz of this or my analysis, I got the highest grades in the whole batch....lololo
Now I feel happy and consider myself a maniac in the past, who used to justify the totally unscientific reasoning of Hadithic Interpretation and rationalize them using pseudoscience.lolololol....
Its a great blessing of the Lord.
Peace
Harun. -
Assalamu alaykum, thank you for the explanation but I still have to research it for myself, inshallah. We also have to be aware that we are limited in knowledge - we falsely assume that this is the peak of civilization and we put our own mind as a criterion and since it is limited we can easily fall into wrong conclusions.
I have recently read a book and this sentence stuck in my mind "One of the things that make life so miraculous is that you can understand it, know ?the truth,? and know that anything against the laws of nature (God?s law) are impossible. If miracles were possible, it would mean life is not understandable, that there is no truth of life. "
...so I started asking myself if all miracles mentioned in the Qur'an are actually physically explainable (to me the above sentence made sense especially since we know that God doesn't change his way according to the Qur'an 3362). There were some possible explanations for some of the stories except for the Solomon story and the Moses story I am still seeking the real meaning and explanation...alhamdulillah I came upon this post Do you have some explanation for the Moses and the splitting of the sea? Jazakumullah khayren.
Salam,
this might help
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599235.0Peace
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Assalamu alaykum, thank you for the explanation but I still have to research it for myself, inshallah. We also have to be aware that we are limited in knowledge - we falsely assume that this is the peak of civilization and we put our own mind as a criterion and since it is limited we can easily fall into wrong conclusions.
I have recently read a book and this sentence stuck in my mind "One of the things that make life so miraculous is that you can understand it, know ?the truth,? and know that anything against the laws of nature (God?s law) are impossible. If miracles were possible, it would mean life is not understandable, that there is no truth of life. "
...so I started asking myself if all miracles mentioned in the Qur'an are actually physically explainable (to me the above sentence made sense especially since we know that God doesn't change his way according to the Qur'an 3362). There were some possible explanations for some of the stories except for the Solomon story and the Moses story I am still seeking the real meaning and explanation...alhamdulillah I came upon this post ) Do you have some explanation for the Moses and the splitting of the sea? Jazakumullah khayren.
salaam
i have a response, but probably it is not THE response and more probably you will not accept it.http//modernsurvivalblog.com/earthquakes/major-earthquake-swarm-off-yemen-trouble/
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604241.0Poor Somalians. iI seems that one day, the will be no more africans.
peace
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Salam Noshirk
thanks for sharing this i feel inlighted ;D
i don't know, but for me is the language from the Quran many times as the language in my dreams- allegorical stories to ponder over and to learn so much... subhanAllahand i'm very happy to found anybody who gave me a link in French - because i love this language and i don't like to forget it
salam and peace -
Peace Bro noshirk (its irritating...plz tell either ur real or nick name)
I do agree with ur reasoning.
For a light side, I am a B.S. Undergraduate Freshman. As a matter of fact, I studied a course in my first sem on organismal biology. It concerned mainly about the ant and wasp community and their behaviour. We were also involved in fieldwork a bit. And we were asked to submit our analysis reports on ant behaviour observed, and my report started with "And the queen of the ants said "....."" from the quranic verse. I but think ants are capable enough of conversation.
I don't know it was becoz of this or my analysis, I got the highest grades in the whole batch....lololo
Now I feel happy and consider myself a maniac in the past, who used to justify the totally unscientific reasoning of Hadithic Interpretation and rationalize them using pseudoscience.lolololol....
Its a great blessing of the Lord.
Peace
Harun.Salaam
2718 Until they came to a valley of ants, a female ant said "O ants, enter your homes else you will be crushed by Solomon and his soldiers while they do not notice."
That is much more than a simple communication. The female ant seems to know who is salomon and salomon heard it.
Dear harun, many smart and educated people are lost people.
Hope that you will not pollute what God gave you with your own and others human inventions.
It took me much time to remove bullshits from my mind. I have not finished yet.
As i said to StopS, truth is not only rejecting lies but mainly reading truth. Many auto proclamed quranists forget to read the great readings. Many of them use quran as pretext to build their own religion from scratch.Peace