New but not new to the views.
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One thing I notice with some folks here - when you disagree with THEM, they say you disagree with the Quran itself. They say their views are 'quranic' or 'according to the quran' or 'the true view'. These are simply delusions of grandeur. In truth, ALL of us are subjective interpreters of the Quran.
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Salaam,
I am not in the mood to write another lengthy post to clarify my meaning, but I will try to "defend" my interpretation of the Message in short.
Those who are involved, the people who have a connection to the teachings of the "Ibrahimic" religion, all worship the same God, whether it be Christian or Jew, they all follow Islam.
The religion is not bound to this book, this Message have been along all the time, and it is this I try to convey with my posts.
The Message is not reserved for those who understand Arabic, it is a universal message to all mankind. The Message is present in the Bible, it can be present in religious literature and even someone's poem.
The recommendations from God are not particularly hard to follow, just understand the Quran?s/the Message's most important aspects and you are well on your way.
You write like I am in a critical need of guidance, while I am grateful of being one blessed by the Lord.
The most important aspect of the religion is to be a righteous person, a good person from inside out, and you can be that by just searching your feelings and looking for the Light. The Truth will come to the one who is honest with himself and open to it.
Already, as of today, I know enough of the Quran that I can live a good life with the acquired Knowledge. I trust sincere interpreters of the Quran who I can discuss the Quranic passages with that are more knowledgeable of the Arabic language and I know God has given me the ability to see what is true or wrong.
Even the Bible, before I ran into the Quran, taught me well on how to be and behave, as well as my own thoughts and meditation upon life. The Truth is not limited to the Quran only. The Book is a blessing and a mercy from God that He gave a book He composed Himself which is pure from any conjecture, and you can follow it knowing it is from Him who sent you.
I urge you to remove these preconceptions that Islam is a religion which is limited to people who know Arabic, Islam has absolutely nothing to so with Arabic and this culture at all. The Quran was revealed in Arabic while the old Jewish scriptures were in Hebrew and Jesus followers wrote in ancient Greek.
The Message is nothing confined to a certain book, it is something that came from God and any person can follow His Message. It is a lifestyle and not a set of rules, except for three major ones like I wrote previously. Jesus followed the Quranic teachings, the Message and the book in its physical form was not even written yet. And other messengers of old also lived by the same teachings, the Quranic Message has been present all the time.
I will be so frank as to say that I was a Muslim even before I read the Quran, that is my view of the Truth. This book or name of religion means nothing, when defining a righteous Believer. The Islam is like I said not the name of a religion but a lifestyle which you can follow by embracing the Message.
The Book is at it claims itself, a blessing and a guide to mankind, a help for one who seek more Wisdom and Knowledge, but to say you cannot reach Heaven without it is a bit ignorant to be honest.
Islam is nothing you can join, it is something you are, or a Truth you seek. I am here on this forum because these people give me lot of Wisdom and Knowledge, I can divide the Truth from falsehood myself. I "stumbled across" the Quran, and I use it as a source of religious teachings, but I do not look on the Truth the way you do.
You indirectly call me arrogant, but look at yourself. Those choices of words show pretty much.
I accept that you wish to believe Islam is limited to a group of people and I am not saying you are less knowledgeable than me, but we certainly do not have the same approach. You seem proud of your alleged knowledge and that is dangerous, if you know the scripture.
And please do not twist my words, I said people of religions other than God's religion are other. I did not admit I am other, I gave you the opportunity to use whatever you wish.
And atheists are not divinely guided, it was the kind of guidance I am talking about, of course. The majority of mankind does not follow the guidance if the have the opportunity, it does not only include disbelievers. God can have your eyes opened and guide you if you actively search for the Truth, thus giving an atheist guidance, although he is probably not an atheist any longer as he searches for answers in the divine.
Ok, now my post managed to become as long as I did not want it to become. It was not my intention.
Okay, I will too end the discussion after this post.
God bless you
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One thing I notice with some folks here - when you disagree with THEM, they say you disagree with the Quran itself. They say their views are 'quranic' or 'according to the quran' or 'the true view'. These are simply delusions of grandeur. In truth, ALL of us are subjective interpreters of the Quran.
Agreed. But I guess better to be subjective interpreters of the Quran than following it blindly, ey?
I feel the same about the whole 'disagreeing = ignorance/ arrogance'.
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Oh I embrace my subjectivity, Rida. It is what makes me human. Indeed I've seen some quranists calling others 'pagans' or 'spreaders of falsehood' when they themselves are fallible readers. To me this is a very big delusion. This is why we set up the Quranists Space. It's a place where you take what you find suitable. No one can tell you what or how much to take.
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I'll inject a post here then.
I'd like to agree with Man of Faith in his understanding on the quran, believers and arabic. I really like the post!
I know people who are not very knowledgeable about the quran, and has been brought up being fed all those ridiculous sunna and hadith stories... and still showing more understanding of life and the principles of the quran than most people who have studied it for a long time. God is indeed great. Some people will benefit from the quran, as a guidance and criterion, while others won't get twiddly twat out of it. I'm not being philosophical when I'm saying that some people get guidance form the quran, other don't, and it is all about their inner softeness and humbleness of the heart. God indeed guides whomever God wishes... and the quran is neither a guarantee FOR guidance or understanding, nor is the lack of familiarity with the quran implying a less degree of guidance. If pre-quranic prophets and messengers can be so pure and guided without the quran, then of course, "common people" can be very guided aswell. It is God who guides, not the quran. The quran is a tool for us poor human beings who may not be able to pick up guidance in any other, more refined and direct way.
Second of all, although there is a difference between mazhab and deen... many people who claim to follow a deen are in practical reality treating it as a mazhab/religion. The Muslims always say, in one and the same sentence, that Islam is the best religion, among religions, and also that it is not just a religion, but a whole life style. Yeah? What's the difference? There are loads n loads of people in any religion who is living it as a life style. Deen is not just a life style that you express when it suits you... it is not something you do... it is something you ARE and work on improving and develop.... it's a direction, approach or even point of view is some sense.
Cheers
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Second of all, although there is a difference between mazhab and deen... many people who claim to follow a deen are in practical reality treating it as a mazhab/religion. The Muslims always say, in one and the same sentence, that Islam is the best religion, among religions, and also that it is not just a religion, but a whole life style. Yeah? What's the difference? There are loads n loads of people in any religion who is living it as a life style. Deen is not just a life style that you express when it suits you... it is not something you do... it is something you ARE and work on improving and develop.... it's a direction, approach or even point of view is some sense.
Well, I'm still thinking about a definiton of Islam, but for now I would say the differnece between Islam as a religion and how I see Islam is that the religion tries to distinguish itself from others, by certain rites, by a certain language etc, while my understanding of Islam does not need that. On the contrary, it is the feeling of the one-ness of everything, represented by the one-ness of God, that is important and which may be present in people of different denomination, of different self-concept.
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How bout islam as a universal principle permeating everything?
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Salaam,
I want to thank you for the kind words, brother Zulf and for your elaboration, was nice hearing some other wise words.
The tone in this thread is quite bad actually, we shall not make Satan happy, shall we?
I just want to add one last thing
It is not the belief in God, prayers or knowing about eternal life which will cause most people to be doomed to Hell of those who believe. It will be the personality, and clearly, this parameter is constantly overlooked, and thus the biggest trap of them all.
God bless you, that you may not fall into the trap just mentioned
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Peace!
Well, I'm still thinking about a definiton of Islam, but for now I would say the differnece between Islam as a religion and how I see Islam is that the religion tries to distinguish itself from others, by certain rites, by a certain language etc, while my understanding of Islam does not need that. On the contrary, it is the feeling of the one-ness of everything, represented by the one-ness of God, that is important and which may be present in people of different denomination, of different self-concept.
and
How bout islam as a universal principle permeating everything?
Yeah, something like that... that's how I tend to think too
Salaam,
I want to thank you for the kind words, brother Zulf and for your elaboration, was nice hearing some other wise words.
The tone in this thread is quite bad actually, we shall not make Satan happy, shall we?
I just want to add one last thing
It is not the belief in God, prayers or knowing about eternal life which will cause most people to be doomed to Hell of those who believe. It will be the personality, and clearly, this parameter is constantly overlooked, and thus the biggest trap of them all.
God bless you, that you may not fall into the trap just mentioned
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It's very easy indeed to fall prey to one's own Ego, or satan, or whatever it is that leads to ruin and destruction. Only God can save us and help us build a strong character that can better withstand the constant temptations that lead towards misery and darkness. We must all constantly guard against this and be mindful...
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Another point, which I myself struggle with, is the knowing-vs-doing. It doesn't matter how much we believe in God, or how much we pray, or how many times we go to the mosque, or how often we sit on the prayer rug, or how universal image we have of God, or how correctly we understand the quran, or how wise we are. It's not really about this. The point is that, to a certain extent, it is futile to chase after more and more correct images of God, because God cannot be grasped. We are not meant to grasp God. However, we do live in this world, which was created for a purpose. We are put into this world by God. Why? Well, for a reason! This is why it is counter productive to shun the world like many so called spiritual people do... we are not supposed to shun this world that God gave us and put us into. God put us here, and many of us are rejecting it and think it is more spiritual to shun the world and worldly things. How ungrateful! We have to serve truth, justice and goodness THROUGH this world, not despite this world. Our faith in God is determined by how we act out our life, and not by what philosophies we adhere to. Faith is expressed through action, which needs a proper foundation, but nevertheless, action in any and every way is IT. So instead of comparing philosophies, we should compete in goodness through action.
Personally I'm a victim of over-philosophizing... having lots of very wise, keen and observant understandings in my mind... but despite this, still remaining blind, shut and in darkness. But God willing, I shall mend my ways and mend my life. God, goodness, righteousness and life is mostly not what we think it is. Just look at the world, does it seem most people get it? Look at this forum, does it seem most people really get it? Well, fortunately, things are not black and white, and no-one is perfect, and we are all on our own journey. We can move ahead if we work hard at it, with sincerety of the heart, or otherwise we'll just remain stagnant and complacent, not knowing what we are missing. We all have lots to learn, and we should never compare with eachother. It's so easy to lose focus. This is what I have understood, though I consider myself just a worm on the ground... but, God-willing, I will learn and purify myself too as much as I can.
In any case, God bless you all! Praise be to God!
And cheers! ;D -
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This is getting really petty now. Let's not allow our egoes to overtake us. I know I am guilty of this and it's a work in progress for me. Let's be respectful to one another, at least.
Salaam.
Salaam,
I want to thank you for the kind words, brother Zulf and for your elaboration, was nice hearing some other wise words.
The tone in this thread is quite bad actually, we shall not make Satan happy, shall we?
I just want to add one last thing
It is not the belief in God, prayers or knowing about eternal life which will cause most people to be doomed to Hell of those who believe. It will be the personality, and clearly, this parameter is constantly overlooked, and thus the biggest trap of them all.
God bless you, that you may not fall into the trap just mentioned
I agree... although it appears the moderators have taken care of it.
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So, the so called moderator deleted all the logical answers posted by me in the light of ayahs, it makes me wonder what kind of person who can delete the Allah's Ayats! Next, what! will you delete these verses from the Quran because your mate does not like it. You deleted my fuller explanation about Jihaad, Subalana and Mohsaneen. A very child like approach and hiding the truth from people. on the contrary, you will not delete the open session of abuse that I complained about from the post of xintai_1. Change the name of this website to Twisted-Minds it reflects you better.
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. 2190
Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating , seeking bounty from Allah and pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward. 4829
You sent me email saying do not judge people. So, who Allah is addressing in the Quran and asking them to say "QUL" do I have to read the ayats to myself? Who is asking to fight and to whom? What is the status of Criterion, that your buddy highlighted in the ayats 548, that you completely deleted without any hesitation. You did not even quote a single ayat in your email to justify your actions apart from you desires/hawa mention in the ayat below, how can you judge when you can not justify or understand the Quranic Ayats, I believe you judge through your mate ship!
And We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation , but to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ. 548
Peace
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Another point, which I myself struggle with, is the knowing-vs-doing...
Yes, of course this is very true, though I think to really act rightously, you have to feel that one-ness, and if ou really feel it (I myself still inly have a vague glance of it) maybe you cannot but act rightously.
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Salaam Awaal_Muslim,
I doubt it was the wisdom of your quoted verses or your wise words that caused your posts to be removed but the rudeness of some of your words, included in them. I could see it in not only your ones but also those from others.
Righteousness followed by ill-meant words do not go well together.
Now do not be offended, I just gave you my understanding of the situation.
I was also letting my emotions make me write a few long threads defending my standing, but I tried to minimize offensive language.
God bless you, that you may calm down and look at it with a new mindset
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you will not delete the open session of abuse that I complained about from the post of xintai_1.
Salaam,
I agree with you on that. I just checked and it looks like they deleted that thread. I also had to block him on youtube, so you are not alone in your experiences of him. They deleted the whole session where we got into a discussion over seals upon hearts etc. I can understand some of your frustration, I know I've felt that way sometimes. It's probably why I'm thinking of taking a step back from this discussion board for now.
There may be some people who are giving you advice based off of the Quran about character etc, but I wouldn't take it too personally. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has to learn this important aspect of putting things into practice. All of us make mistakes and maybe my mistake was getting involved in it at all.
May Allah shower you and all believers with Mercy and Blessings.
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Peace RidaKhan
I would ask, what is your true religion?, because the tone of voice in your writings sounds very arrogant, and to what I understand a Muslim should be humble, and should always keep in mind that he/she may be mistaking, and that only God knows the true meaning of words and verses.
4729Or do they in whose hearts is disease think, perchance, that God would never bring their moral failings to light?
4730 Now had We so willed, We could have shown them clearly to thee, so that thou wouldst know them for sure as by a visible mark but thou wilt most certainly recognize them by the tone of their voice. And God knows all that you do"That your passport says you are a muslim only means that you are a Muslim in the eyes of man, but that doesn't mean that you are. What if in the eyes of God you are Not?. Only God knows what is in the hearts of man.
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Oneself, is the biggest project of one's life.
All of us have to improve, especially those who don't think they need to improve.
We all have different weaknesses of character, learned or inherited.
We are all quite complex in our character make-up, and we cannot tell for sure much about another, and often not about ourselves. We can however distinguish certain tendencies or predominant habits of character in ourselves and others, as long as we refrain from judging others. Our actions will speak for us.
They way to heal one's weaknesses and blindness, is to sincerely and continuously pray to God for improvement, and to sincerely commit to change through active and conscious steps. This may sound easy, but it can be very difficult indeed. For some people it may be easier than for others. We all have different lessons to learn.All in all, we are totally dependent on God's mercy for this.
Peace all!
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Salaam,
I think the biggest help you can get, when it comes to grow in character, is to pray to God for His nearness and guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers. And submit to His Will.
And you should have no doubt in your Faith.
Fulfilling the above, and give your whole self to improving your personality, will lead one on a straight path.
I recommend to be ridiculously humble almost, even if your "old self" says no. Not only to God, but also to people around you. The biggest trap was the personality, as I said in a previous thread, and people generally forget that treatment of others is included in this.
Even try to show humbleness to those who oppose you, and even if they are clearly wrong, refrain from ridicule but politely correct them. Control your emotions, even if they start using bad language, and try to utter only righteous words in return.
Also be humble in response to ideas which you may not agree with, for they might be better than yours, if you shine new Light on them.
Remember, it is not always important to be right all the time, as long as one has an honest and kind heart.
This is my understanding of the way of God, you will most likely not fulfill the philosophy behind Islam without attempting the above mentioned parameters. Remember, Islam is all about building peace with both yourself and your surroundings and it is best to start from within yourself.
Without this inner peace it is difficult to be a truly righteous person, and will make your worship of God nullified, meaningless.
If parameter 3 of the below list is not fulfilled, then all fails as a chain reaction
- Believe in God
- Believe in the Hereafter
- Be a righteous person
Criterion number three is the biggest hassle for all of us, including myself, and that is what we must work on.
It is such a broad topic and it has to do with everything regarding your personality, both things I mentioned earlier and things I have not mentioned here. But all three criteria go hand in hand, to find the Truth, the Path and the Light, you must actively work on all three of them.
God will only accept your worship of Him if you back it up with righteous deeds.
The more righteous deeds and soul development, the greater rewards in your relationship with your Maker. The chain reaction is also in a positive regard, buffed by righteousness you can improve your worship of God and the blessings from Him.
I have noticed, when I focus on righteous deeds and my own personal development God will reward me in various ways. I have had obvious divine benefits during recent time. Despite this I am humble and I wish everyone else the same and that is why I say this to you now. Not because I think I am better, God helped me, so I could see straight. Without God I would be a nobody, believe me.
Sorry for all the text, it seems that when I start writing I have a problem stopping. At least these are honest words.
God bless you