New but not new to the views.
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One thing I notice with some folks here - when you disagree with THEM, they say you disagree with the Quran itself. They say their views are 'quranic' or 'according to the quran' or 'the true view'. These are simply delusions of grandeur. In truth, ALL of us are subjective interpreters of the Quran.
Agreed. But I guess better to be subjective interpreters of the Quran than following it blindly, ey?
I feel the same about the whole 'disagreeing = ignorance/ arrogance'.
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Oh I embrace my subjectivity, Rida. It is what makes me human. Indeed I've seen some quranists calling others 'pagans' or 'spreaders of falsehood' when they themselves are fallible readers. To me this is a very big delusion. This is why we set up the Quranists Space. It's a place where you take what you find suitable. No one can tell you what or how much to take.
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I'll inject a post here then.
I'd like to agree with Man of Faith in his understanding on the quran, believers and arabic. I really like the post!
I know people who are not very knowledgeable about the quran, and has been brought up being fed all those ridiculous sunna and hadith stories... and still showing more understanding of life and the principles of the quran than most people who have studied it for a long time. God is indeed great. Some people will benefit from the quran, as a guidance and criterion, while others won't get twiddly twat out of it. I'm not being philosophical when I'm saying that some people get guidance form the quran, other don't, and it is all about their inner softeness and humbleness of the heart. God indeed guides whomever God wishes... and the quran is neither a guarantee FOR guidance or understanding, nor is the lack of familiarity with the quran implying a less degree of guidance. If pre-quranic prophets and messengers can be so pure and guided without the quran, then of course, "common people" can be very guided aswell. It is God who guides, not the quran. The quran is a tool for us poor human beings who may not be able to pick up guidance in any other, more refined and direct way.
Second of all, although there is a difference between mazhab and deen... many people who claim to follow a deen are in practical reality treating it as a mazhab/religion. The Muslims always say, in one and the same sentence, that Islam is the best religion, among religions, and also that it is not just a religion, but a whole life style. Yeah? What's the difference? There are loads n loads of people in any religion who is living it as a life style. Deen is not just a life style that you express when it suits you... it is not something you do... it is something you ARE and work on improving and develop.... it's a direction, approach or even point of view is some sense.
Cheers
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Second of all, although there is a difference between mazhab and deen... many people who claim to follow a deen are in practical reality treating it as a mazhab/religion. The Muslims always say, in one and the same sentence, that Islam is the best religion, among religions, and also that it is not just a religion, but a whole life style. Yeah? What's the difference? There are loads n loads of people in any religion who is living it as a life style. Deen is not just a life style that you express when it suits you... it is not something you do... it is something you ARE and work on improving and develop.... it's a direction, approach or even point of view is some sense.
Well, I'm still thinking about a definiton of Islam, but for now I would say the differnece between Islam as a religion and how I see Islam is that the religion tries to distinguish itself from others, by certain rites, by a certain language etc, while my understanding of Islam does not need that. On the contrary, it is the feeling of the one-ness of everything, represented by the one-ness of God, that is important and which may be present in people of different denomination, of different self-concept.
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How bout islam as a universal principle permeating everything?
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Salaam,
I want to thank you for the kind words, brother Zulf and for your elaboration, was nice hearing some other wise words.
The tone in this thread is quite bad actually, we shall not make Satan happy, shall we?
I just want to add one last thing
It is not the belief in God, prayers or knowing about eternal life which will cause most people to be doomed to Hell of those who believe. It will be the personality, and clearly, this parameter is constantly overlooked, and thus the biggest trap of them all.
God bless you, that you may not fall into the trap just mentioned
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Peace!
Well, I'm still thinking about a definiton of Islam, but for now I would say the differnece between Islam as a religion and how I see Islam is that the religion tries to distinguish itself from others, by certain rites, by a certain language etc, while my understanding of Islam does not need that. On the contrary, it is the feeling of the one-ness of everything, represented by the one-ness of God, that is important and which may be present in people of different denomination, of different self-concept.
and
How bout islam as a universal principle permeating everything?
Yeah, something like that... that's how I tend to think too
Salaam,
I want to thank you for the kind words, brother Zulf and for your elaboration, was nice hearing some other wise words.
The tone in this thread is quite bad actually, we shall not make Satan happy, shall we?
I just want to add one last thing
It is not the belief in God, prayers or knowing about eternal life which will cause most people to be doomed to Hell of those who believe. It will be the personality, and clearly, this parameter is constantly overlooked, and thus the biggest trap of them all.
God bless you, that you may not fall into the trap just mentioned
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It's very easy indeed to fall prey to one's own Ego, or satan, or whatever it is that leads to ruin and destruction. Only God can save us and help us build a strong character that can better withstand the constant temptations that lead towards misery and darkness. We must all constantly guard against this and be mindful...
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Another point, which I myself struggle with, is the knowing-vs-doing. It doesn't matter how much we believe in God, or how much we pray, or how many times we go to the mosque, or how often we sit on the prayer rug, or how universal image we have of God, or how correctly we understand the quran, or how wise we are. It's not really about this. The point is that, to a certain extent, it is futile to chase after more and more correct images of God, because God cannot be grasped. We are not meant to grasp God. However, we do live in this world, which was created for a purpose. We are put into this world by God. Why? Well, for a reason! This is why it is counter productive to shun the world like many so called spiritual people do... we are not supposed to shun this world that God gave us and put us into. God put us here, and many of us are rejecting it and think it is more spiritual to shun the world and worldly things. How ungrateful! We have to serve truth, justice and goodness THROUGH this world, not despite this world. Our faith in God is determined by how we act out our life, and not by what philosophies we adhere to. Faith is expressed through action, which needs a proper foundation, but nevertheless, action in any and every way is IT. So instead of comparing philosophies, we should compete in goodness through action.
Personally I'm a victim of over-philosophizing... having lots of very wise, keen and observant understandings in my mind... but despite this, still remaining blind, shut and in darkness. But God willing, I shall mend my ways and mend my life. God, goodness, righteousness and life is mostly not what we think it is. Just look at the world, does it seem most people get it? Look at this forum, does it seem most people really get it? Well, fortunately, things are not black and white, and no-one is perfect, and we are all on our own journey. We can move ahead if we work hard at it, with sincerety of the heart, or otherwise we'll just remain stagnant and complacent, not knowing what we are missing. We all have lots to learn, and we should never compare with eachother. It's so easy to lose focus. This is what I have understood, though I consider myself just a worm on the ground... but, God-willing, I will learn and purify myself too as much as I can.
In any case, God bless you all! Praise be to God!
And cheers! ;D -
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This is getting really petty now. Let's not allow our egoes to overtake us. I know I am guilty of this and it's a work in progress for me. Let's be respectful to one another, at least.
Salaam.
Salaam,
I want to thank you for the kind words, brother Zulf and for your elaboration, was nice hearing some other wise words.
The tone in this thread is quite bad actually, we shall not make Satan happy, shall we?
I just want to add one last thing
It is not the belief in God, prayers or knowing about eternal life which will cause most people to be doomed to Hell of those who believe. It will be the personality, and clearly, this parameter is constantly overlooked, and thus the biggest trap of them all.
God bless you, that you may not fall into the trap just mentioned
I agree... although it appears the moderators have taken care of it.
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So, the so called moderator deleted all the logical answers posted by me in the light of ayahs, it makes me wonder what kind of person who can delete the Allah's Ayats! Next, what! will you delete these verses from the Quran because your mate does not like it. You deleted my fuller explanation about Jihaad, Subalana and Mohsaneen. A very child like approach and hiding the truth from people. on the contrary, you will not delete the open session of abuse that I complained about from the post of xintai_1. Change the name of this website to Twisted-Minds it reflects you better.
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. 2190
Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah ; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating , seeking bounty from Allah and pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward. 4829
You sent me email saying do not judge people. So, who Allah is addressing in the Quran and asking them to say "QUL" do I have to read the ayats to myself? Who is asking to fight and to whom? What is the status of Criterion, that your buddy highlighted in the ayats 548, that you completely deleted without any hesitation. You did not even quote a single ayat in your email to justify your actions apart from you desires/hawa mention in the ayat below, how can you judge when you can not justify or understand the Quranic Ayats, I believe you judge through your mate ship!
And We have revealed to you, , the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation , but to test you in what He has given you; so race to good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ. 548
Peace
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Another point, which I myself struggle with, is the knowing-vs-doing...
Yes, of course this is very true, though I think to really act rightously, you have to feel that one-ness, and if ou really feel it (I myself still inly have a vague glance of it) maybe you cannot but act rightously.
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Salaam Awaal_Muslim,
I doubt it was the wisdom of your quoted verses or your wise words that caused your posts to be removed but the rudeness of some of your words, included in them. I could see it in not only your ones but also those from others.
Righteousness followed by ill-meant words do not go well together.
Now do not be offended, I just gave you my understanding of the situation.
I was also letting my emotions make me write a few long threads defending my standing, but I tried to minimize offensive language.
God bless you, that you may calm down and look at it with a new mindset
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you will not delete the open session of abuse that I complained about from the post of xintai_1.
Salaam,
I agree with you on that. I just checked and it looks like they deleted that thread. I also had to block him on youtube, so you are not alone in your experiences of him. They deleted the whole session where we got into a discussion over seals upon hearts etc. I can understand some of your frustration, I know I've felt that way sometimes. It's probably why I'm thinking of taking a step back from this discussion board for now.
There may be some people who are giving you advice based off of the Quran about character etc, but I wouldn't take it too personally. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has to learn this important aspect of putting things into practice. All of us make mistakes and maybe my mistake was getting involved in it at all.
May Allah shower you and all believers with Mercy and Blessings.
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Peace RidaKhan
I would ask, what is your true religion?, because the tone of voice in your writings sounds very arrogant, and to what I understand a Muslim should be humble, and should always keep in mind that he/she may be mistaking, and that only God knows the true meaning of words and verses.
4729Or do they in whose hearts is disease think, perchance, that God would never bring their moral failings to light?
4730 Now had We so willed, We could have shown them clearly to thee, so that thou wouldst know them for sure as by a visible mark but thou wilt most certainly recognize them by the tone of their voice. And God knows all that you do"That your passport says you are a muslim only means that you are a Muslim in the eyes of man, but that doesn't mean that you are. What if in the eyes of God you are Not?. Only God knows what is in the hearts of man.
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Oneself, is the biggest project of one's life.
All of us have to improve, especially those who don't think they need to improve.
We all have different weaknesses of character, learned or inherited.
We are all quite complex in our character make-up, and we cannot tell for sure much about another, and often not about ourselves. We can however distinguish certain tendencies or predominant habits of character in ourselves and others, as long as we refrain from judging others. Our actions will speak for us.
They way to heal one's weaknesses and blindness, is to sincerely and continuously pray to God for improvement, and to sincerely commit to change through active and conscious steps. This may sound easy, but it can be very difficult indeed. For some people it may be easier than for others. We all have different lessons to learn.All in all, we are totally dependent on God's mercy for this.
Peace all!
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Salaam,
I think the biggest help you can get, when it comes to grow in character, is to pray to God for His nearness and guidance as well as protection from the evil one and his followers. And submit to His Will.
And you should have no doubt in your Faith.
Fulfilling the above, and give your whole self to improving your personality, will lead one on a straight path.
I recommend to be ridiculously humble almost, even if your "old self" says no. Not only to God, but also to people around you. The biggest trap was the personality, as I said in a previous thread, and people generally forget that treatment of others is included in this.
Even try to show humbleness to those who oppose you, and even if they are clearly wrong, refrain from ridicule but politely correct them. Control your emotions, even if they start using bad language, and try to utter only righteous words in return.
Also be humble in response to ideas which you may not agree with, for they might be better than yours, if you shine new Light on them.
Remember, it is not always important to be right all the time, as long as one has an honest and kind heart.
This is my understanding of the way of God, you will most likely not fulfill the philosophy behind Islam without attempting the above mentioned parameters. Remember, Islam is all about building peace with both yourself and your surroundings and it is best to start from within yourself.
Without this inner peace it is difficult to be a truly righteous person, and will make your worship of God nullified, meaningless.
If parameter 3 of the below list is not fulfilled, then all fails as a chain reaction
- Believe in God
- Believe in the Hereafter
- Be a righteous person
Criterion number three is the biggest hassle for all of us, including myself, and that is what we must work on.
It is such a broad topic and it has to do with everything regarding your personality, both things I mentioned earlier and things I have not mentioned here. But all three criteria go hand in hand, to find the Truth, the Path and the Light, you must actively work on all three of them.
God will only accept your worship of Him if you back it up with righteous deeds.
The more righteous deeds and soul development, the greater rewards in your relationship with your Maker. The chain reaction is also in a positive regard, buffed by righteousness you can improve your worship of God and the blessings from Him.
I have noticed, when I focus on righteous deeds and my own personal development God will reward me in various ways. I have had obvious divine benefits during recent time. Despite this I am humble and I wish everyone else the same and that is why I say this to you now. Not because I think I am better, God helped me, so I could see straight. Without God I would be a nobody, believe me.
Sorry for all the text, it seems that when I start writing I have a problem stopping. At least these are honest words.
God bless you
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Peace RidaKhan
I would ask, what is your true religion?, because the tone of voice in your writings sounds very arrogant.
Hey there. I don't understand why you think I am arrogant. I guess my writing style is not that same others because I don't like to add "prayers" or "Quranic verses" to random strangers I meet on the discussion forums.
To your question, I don't have a religion. I follow a Deen (an ideology/ way of life) called Islam which literally means "Peace". Because I am a follower of Islam and its holy book, the Quran- I call myself a Muslim because I agree with the teachings of the Quran and also because I am comfortable with just being called a Muslim (no sunni, no shia, no wahabi). Like I said in my introduction, I do not like to be labelled with any kind of "ists" "holics" or definitely do not follow any "isms".
Secondly, I was also born into a Muslim- sunni family. And I pray the sunni way to make my parents happy and to keep peace with the rest of the Muslim community. Of course, my understanding of salaat is very different to 99% of the Muslims. Nevertheless, I compromise on certain rituals performed by the Muslims because I want to keep peace.
Of course, you are judging me in saying that I am arrogant. And you have no right to judge me, and I have no right to judge you. Therefore, I had suggest that if both of us don't have anything nice to say to each other, we shouldn't say anything.
I was the one who reported to the moderators so that the discussion is heated down. My action was not out of arrogance, it was with the intention of compromise and to keep peace. Again, sad when people judge you without getting to know you. Just because I disagree with you or question your identity, it is as a result of curiosity and interest. Not arrogance.
I also got a cool fb pic that you guys might be interested in having a look at. )
https//www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=495958453797969&set=a.169489449778206.41247.159050624155422&type=1&theater