Hijab and verse 24:31; explanation without extrapolation
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Salaam Israfeel,
I reckon there is a slight problem with your thinking. You see people as stereotypes rather than individuals. You saw my expression about my own clothing and I am following the Quran alone.
This view of women in mini-skirts who consider them to be "Quranist" is a bit extreme. I doubt very few women "Quranists" dress like this.
You see me, I believe too that clothing is a help to remain righteous and modest and I am perhaps in this category although I prefer to call myself simply muslim.
But I share your view of the Western vulgarity and undressing to be inspired by Shaytaan and that it is demoralizing for the whole society and is spreading like cancer all over the world.
God bless you
Im glad you share my view. It's always good that we have the same foundation, then details can be discussed later. However, apart from you, it seems most other Quranists don't even have the same foundation. For example one user has just written recently that burqa and niqab should be banned. Is this what Quran teaches us? (God forbid)
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Okay Sir Israfeel, since you are dissatified by my post that I agree with banning burqa and niqab, I retract my words and I apologize for that.
I never say at all that I agree with women getting naked and showing promiscuity but I am dissatisfied by your reply to my post by saying that I wanted women getting naked in fact I didn-t say at all. It was either you misunderstood my post or you tried to slander me.
Salaam.
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How is it modest for a woman to uncover her face? Burqa is the dress of Muslim ladies since the time of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Quranist women don't observe veil, they wear English style clothes like the immoral English ladies who have no faith and no fear of Allah Tabbarak wa Taala. Burqa is the symbol of faith and love for Allah and love for modesty, while high heels and lipstick are the symbols of Satanism.
salaam brother
How is a woman suppose to get dressed when going for hajj?
salaam
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salaam brother
How is a woman suppose to get dressed when going for hajj?
salaam
Wa alaikum as salaam
In hajj women should not cover their face but if there are men who are nearby, then they can cover their face, but the fabric of veil shouldn't touch skin, it should be loosely drawn over, until the men have passed by. This is from an authentic Hadith from our mother of believers Aisha that they would do like this.
Notice that in Hajj all men dawn the Ihram, which is two pieces of unstitched coarse garments, but women do not. This shows that women's modesty is extremely important, even more important than men's modesty.
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Where did the manner God is expecting out of us go?
Despite having different and conservative or extremist opinions there is no use of bursting out in bad language like this.
There are maybe even former Sunnis here who shared some of his thinking so it could be like cursing your previous self.
Remember there is a human behind the nickname Israfeel and so far he behaves well despite his controversial ideas about religion. He says this or that about Quranists but he is at least fairly polite in doing so.
He has a preconception that people want to look like Hollywood stars and he is entitled to his current state of mind. Putting myself in his place I can understand why he thinks some Quranist women seem like half-naked Hollywood stars and that Satan is driving them.
No matter of religious view most people are going right to Hell and the derailing here is just another testament to that. This is just the behavior God warns about in His Book and which we must refrain from even for those we consider our "enemies".
It does not matter if you are believing in God or not as long as you fail at parameter number three of the 'big criteria' you are most likely in bad trouble, ie by not being a righteous person. Yes, being misinformed is one thing. I think people can go to Heaven anyways as long as they fulfill the three criteria Belief in God, belief in eternal existence and being a righteous person. Sadly the third parameter many people forget about and superior knowledge in Quran or any other book cannot solve that unless the person lives as he teaches or is taught.
Perhaps Israfeel is here to test your Faith. See it that way.
God bless you that you may show the right islamic nature
Salaam Man of Faith,
I have noticed that since a few weeks ago you only find faults and bad qualities in me whenever you reply to me.
Was everything that I posted before you posted this post useless?Regards,
Yuliana -
Peace,
The debate about 24/31 will continue until folks understand that a woman's modesty is
cultural and not an injunction for all women to dress alike. The deliberate vagueness
by God is an indication that 24/31 is not time bound forever but an overall instruction
to behave and dress decently. I contend that the vagueness allows for cultural differences
until the end of time.peace
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I agree that what is acceptable and what is not is a cultural question, but still I think that the aya is amongst other things about modesty the first part which is similar to what is said to the male believers, the rest is nto about modesty but about vanity and self-esteem and self respect.
Salaam
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Salaam Yuliana,
No, I do not. I just reacted on the bad language and personal insults. No more than that. I know this is very common. And I had a feeling of obligation to remind. It has occurred that I have sometimes fallen prey to this trap too.
God bless you
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Salaam Yuliana,
No, I do not. I just reacted on the bad language and personal insults. No more than that. I know this is very common. And I had a feeling of obligation to remind. It has occurred that I have sometimes fallen prey to this trap too.
God bless you
Salaam,
It's weird because you don't point faults, flaws and bad qualities in Israfeel.
Why me and only me?Why does almost everyone including in real life only find my faults and flaws '( '( '(
Regards with sadness,
Yuliana '( -
Salaam Yuliana,
I have not talked about anything personal. It was a general advice I came out with. I noticed the language seemed a bit inappropriate coming from a Muslim's mouth (or fingers) and since I wish you all the best I pointed this out. This certain behavior gives a bad show of those people who have decided to only use the Quran for guidelines. The Quran teaches proper conduct in a very clear manner.
Of course we wish to show we are better than those who are sectarian and thus we have to behave better without being arrogant.
Aggression is clearly a negative trait of those who believe as well as many other such similar ones as we can see by a little study of Quran.
As it seemed, Israfeel only got reasons to despise "Quranists". His arguments must be met with shrewdness not blunt force.
God bless you
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Again I didn't get an answer...if this is about behavior why are certain categories included? Why would you "show off" to your father?
Someone said"It is about vanity and self respect, and not about sexual mores.."
If this was true would it be logical that there are certain categories in front of whom you don't have to have these good qualities?
It is as for example to say don't lie but you can do it to certain categories? Wouldn't this be illogical? -
Where in Quran it says bestiality is forbidden? Only Hadith has forbidden bestiality, not Quran. So if you reject Hadith and follow Quran, then you can have sex with animals. Is that logical? This why we need Hadith.
The eel is not a fish so we can't eat it. Hadith only gives permission for fish.
Peace Israfeel,
You reason like a Madman, the Quran also does not forbid choking cats to death or
having sex with inanimate objects. -
A reminder for everyone to stay on topic!
Where in Quran it says bestiality is forbidden? Only Hadith has forbidden bestiality, not Quran. So if you reject Hadith and follow Quran, then you can have sex with animals. Is that logical? This why we need Hadith.
The eel is not a fish so we can't eat it. Hadith only gives permission for fish.
Where does it say it is allowed? if you're trying to be logical, how is it logical to assume it is allowed because it's not written in the way you want? notice the flaws in your questioning. You don't need the Quran to tell you bestiality is forbidden. You'll know what is permissible by understanding nikkah.
You don't need hadith to tell you that moreover hadith does NOT have an answer to every question.
If you wish to discuss issues with Quran/Hadith please start a new thread/topic and don't make a mockery of Quran because of your bias
Salam.
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Again I didn't get an answer...if this is about behavior why are certain categories included? Why would you "show off" to your father?
Someone said"It is about vanity and self respect, and not about sexual mores.."
If this was true would it be logical that there are certain categories in front of whom you don't have to have these good qualities?
It is as for example to say don't lie but you can do it to certain categories? Wouldn't this be illogical?It makes sense. People with whom you live are not impressed by any showing off one may put up, because at any rate they know one too well and too intimately to be susceptible or impressed by that kind of thing coming from a person with whom they have intimacy. As they saying goes nobody is an extraordinary person in front of his butler. On the other hand women are also forbidden to show off in front of other women who are not familiar, which goes to show that it is not about arousing men, that is, it is not about sexual mores. Unless it is thought that it is meant for homosexuals but in that case men should also be adviced not to show off in front of men, since they would be enticing them sexually. But not showing off in front of women is about avoiding vanity, provokation and competing. Or, if it were about sexual mores and covering this or that part of the body, why should be commanded the same degree of sexual caution in front of women as in front of men. What is, for a woman, in uncovering most of the body in fron of other women? Would other women be aroused, while intimate women wouldn't?
Salaam
Salaam
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Peace,
The debate about 24/31 will continue until folks understand that a woman's modesty is
cultural and not an injunction for all women to dress alike. The deliberate vagueness
by God is an indication that 24/31 is not time bound forever but an overall instruction
to behave and dress decently. I contend that the vagueness allows for cultural differences
until the end of time.peace
This is the perfect answer.
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Peace Israfeel,
You reason like a Madman, the Quran also does not forbid choking cats to death or
having sex with inanimate objects.Don't bother with him. What I've noticed is 'hadithist' need everything spoon fed to them. It is like they've never heard of common sense.