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  4. What is Islam?

What is Islam?

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  • S Offline
    S Offline
    savage_carrot
    wrote on last edited by
    #35

    Salaam,

    God means that if He so wills no one has a choice but to obey. He can make anyone do something against their will should He so desire.

    God bless you

    It makes little to no sense for God to force someone to make choices they didn't want to make, since that makes said choices meaningless. The system would be streamlined/efficient, the choices that we make would be ours and factored into the program, while the program would still execute according to the designed plan, the will of God. I think that we might be confusing our choices with that of God's will or in other words, God's system. We all have no choice in that regard but to submit to the system, since we are present therein, but we do have the capacity to make our choices...and those can't change the system/program in place. It will unfold as it must, we are either with the flow, drifting or against it, what determines our success or failure.

    peace

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    • F Offline
      F Offline
      faruk
      wrote on last edited by
      #36

      It makes little to no sense for God to force someone to make choices they didn't want to make, since that makes said choices meaningless. The system would be streamlined/efficient, the choices that we make would be ours and factored into the program, while the program would still execute according to the designed plan, the will of God. I think that we might be confusing our choices with that of God's will or in other words, God's system. We all have no choice in that regard but to submit to the system, since we are present therein, but we do have the capacity to make our choices...and those can't change the system/program in place. It will unfold as it must, we are either with the flow, drifting or against it, what determines our success or failure.

      peace

      Salam,

      Well said. Now I think I'm starting to understand the apparent contradiction of free will and all prevailing God's will .

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      • M Offline
        M Offline
        muslims
        wrote on last edited by
        #37

        Salam,

        A picture is worth a thousand words.

        This what we should be doing.

        http//s16.postimg.org/805wdizsj/Islam.png

        However, this is what we are doing today.

        Standing up on "what is right or wrong on each separate elements".

        Fire Based Religion Hinduism, Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Khawarij Islam etc.

        Air Based Religion Christianity, Da'wah Islam, Political Islam etc.

        Water Based Religion Buddhism, Atheism, Sufi Islam, Tasawwuf, Educational Islam etc.

        Earth Based Religion Judaism, Quranism Islam, Wahabi Islam etc.

        Therefore, can we say any of the above religions is "Din of Islam"?

        Nope, it is a religion.

        And whoever seeks a "dnan" (&#1575 other than Islam
        it will NEVER be accepted of him
        and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
        (385)

        This is what happened today within the Islamic World.

        And they say

        "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian."

        That is their wishful thinking

        Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

        Yes
        whoever submits his face in Islam to Allah
        while being a doer of good
        will have his reward with his Lord
        And no fear will there be concerning them
        nor will they grieve.

        The Jews say

        "The Christians have nothing to stand on,"

        and the Christians say

        "The Jews have nothing to stand on,"

        although they recite the Scripture.

        Thus the polytheists speak the same as their words.

        But Allah will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection
        concerning that over which they used to differ

        And who are more unjust than those
        who prevent the name of Allah from being mentioned in His mosques (system?)
        and strive toward their destruction
        It is not for them to enter them except in fear
        For them in this world is disgrace
        and they will have in the Hereafter a great punishment

        And to Allah belongs the east and the west
        So wherever you turn
        there is the Face of Allah
        Indeed, Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing

        (2111-115)

        "And to Allah belongs the east and the west"

        To Allah belongs the direction (intention, kiblah) and whatever you do (action, amal, madhab, religion).

        As long you are in Islam to Allah and doer of good

        "wherever you might turn"

        "there is the Face of Allah"

        "No fear will there be concerning them"

        "nor will they grieve"

        Now, just a philosophical statement...

        as to the meaning of solat

        http//s13.postimg.org/f0sag5q85/solat.png

        Fire = South = Law and order = Alif = Asmaullah = and so on...
        Air = West = Communication/Humanity = Lam = Afaalullah = and so on...
        Water = East = Knowledge/Expertise = Lam = Sifatullah = and so on...
        Earth = North = Persistence/Ground/Humble = Ha = Dzatullah = and so on...

        Fire + Air + Water + Earth/Soil = Planet of Earth - Sunnatullah

        The formula to combine all the above elements is "just and balance" (Sunnatullah)

        Since, "just and balance" has no religion.

        Equally, the same principle can be applied to the business world, family institution or any other areas, ie. Policy, Communication, Expertise, and Persistence/Humble. It does not matter what you do, or how big is the tasks at hand or how big is your struggle with Islam. It is about monitoring and balancing these elements in whatever tasks in hand, balancing it in our life.

        Solat. Perfection (Khusyu&#039.

        This is jihad.

        Peace.

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          muslims
          wrote on last edited by
          #38

          Jihad

          And those who believe in Allah and His Messengers
          they are the Siddiqun
          and the martyrs (syahid) with their Lord
          they shall have their reward and their light
          But those who disbelieve
          and deny Our Ayat (disobedience)
          they shall be the dwellers of the blazing Fire
          (<a href="http//quran.com/57/19">5719</a&gt

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          • M Offline
            M Offline
            Man_of_Faith
            wrote on last edited by
            #39

            Salaam Savage_Carrot,

            This was what I meant with my short phrases. Thank you.

            God bless you

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            • M Offline
              M Offline
              muslims
              wrote on last edited by
              #40

              Salam,

              I believe if it is true that Muhammad was performing solah.

              He is not communicating the "ritual prayer", and the idea of religion.

              He knew that the Ummah will revert back to the "idea of religion" and "rituals".

              Therefore, he is communicating and preserving the "meaning of Islam from that ritual prayer"

              The same way how human communicate and preserving messages thousand years ago.

              Through "symbols" and "statues".

              Is he brilliant or not? )

              Peace

              And in whatever thing you disagree <-- Formula for Unity - "Quran Alone" vs. "Allah Alone"
              the judgment thereof is (in) Allah's (hand)
              that is Allah
              my Lord
              on Him do I rely
              and to Him do I turn
              time after time

              The Originator of the heavens and the earth

              He made mates for you from among yourselves <-- Differences / Descriptions
              and mates of the cattle too
              multiplying you thereby
              nothing like a likeness of Him
              and He is the Hearing
              the Seeing

              His are the treasures of the heavens and the earth
              He makes ample and straitens the means of subsistence
              for whom He pleases
              surely He is Cognizant of all things

              He has made plain to you <-- What is Islam
              of the Din (l-dni)
              what He enjoined upon Nuh
              and that which We have revealed to you
              and that which We enjoined upon Ibrahim
              and Musa
              and Isa
              that keep to obedience
              and be not divided therein

              hard to the unbelievers is that which you call them to <-- Challenges - Mushrikeen (<a href="http//quran.com/30/32">3032</a&gt

              Allah chooses for Himself whom He pleases
              and guides to Himself him who turns (to Him), frequently

              And they did not become divided <-- Religion & Division
              until after knowledge had come to them
              out of envy among themselves

              and had not a word gone forth from your Lord till an appointed term
              certainly judgment would have been given between them
              and those who were made to inherit the Book after them
              are most surely in disquieting doubt concerning it

              To this then go on inviting <-- Task for Muslims
              and go on steadfastly
              on the right way
              as you are commanded
              and do not follow their low desires
              and say

              I believe in what Allah has revealed of the Book
              and I am commanded to do justice between you <-- role as Mediators and Conciliators
              Allah is our Lord and your Lord vs. Provoker & create more divisions
              we shall have our deeds
              and you shall have your deeds
              no plea need there be (now) between us and you
              Allah will gather us together
              and to Him is the return

              And (as for) those who dispute about Allah <-- Warning
              after that obedience has been rendered to Him
              their plea is null with their Lord
              and upon them is wrath
              and for them is severe punishment

              (<a href="http//quran.com/42/10-16">4210-16</a&gt

              A Muslim must now learn how to become Negotiator, Mediator and Conciliator. There is no religion and it is not about to spread Islam, since Islam is not a religion. It is about to spread peace, harmony and unity in the society. It's about benefiting humanity, kindness to His creation and giving to relatives. This is how people from different backgrounds and traditions are able to accept Islam by our Prophet Muhammad pbuh. Unconditional acceptance (respect) of world religious practices and balancing what is just to every living creatures. This is "Din of Islam".

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              • M Offline
                M Offline
                muslims
                wrote on last edited by
                #41

                Salam

                "Allah Alone"
                = Prostrate to Allah Alone
                = Sunni
                = Syiah
                = Khawarij
                = Muktazilah
                = Tasawuf
                = Sufism
                = Wahabi
                = Quranism etc.

                God/Self Alone
                = Hinduism
                = Buddhism
                = Christian
                = Judaism
                = Atheism (Self = God)
                = Other religions etc

                "Qur'an Alone" (Book, Guidance)
                = Prostrate to Allah + Sunnatullah (Khalif)
                = Objective of Khalif -> Manager (To understand Just and Balance - To understand Sunnatullah)
                = Manager -> To manage the Earth -> Negotiator, Mediator and Conciliator
                = To bring Balance
                -> Balance bring Justice
                -> Justice bring Harmony
                -> Harmony bring Security
                -> Security bring Happiness
                -> Happiness bring Love
                -> Love bring Satisfaction
                -> Satisfaction bring Alhamdulillah
                -> Alhamdulillah bring Fear (of losing Allah's attention/guidance etc ..
                as those person who are in deep love)
                -> Fear will motivate us to become better human being -> Khalif
                -> Khalif -> Reality
                -> Reality -> Allah
                = Din of Islam

                Peace

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  muslims
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #42

                  FIRE

                  (Philosophical aspect - Fire is always in a standing position - Hablum Minallah)

                  http//s13.postimg.org/f0sag5q85/solat.png

                  Law and order within ourselves, not to others.

                  We are giving unconditional freedom to others according to the Qur'an, promoting peace and harmony.

                  We cannot change others, we can only change ourselves.

                  Fire -> South -> Asmaullah -> Alif -> Standing position

                  What should we stand for, within ourselves?

                  1. Allah and the Qur'an (Hadith) as our guidance.

                  2. The attributes in the 99 names of Allah.

                  These qualities should be existed in ourselves.

                  1 The Greatest Name Allah
                  2 The All-Compassionate Ar-Rahman
                  3 The All-Merciful Ar-Rahim
                  4 The Absolute Ruler Al-Malik
                  5 The Pure One Al-Quddus
                  6 The Source of Peace As-Salam
                  7 The Inspirer of Faith Al-Mu'min
                  8 The Guardian Al-Muhaymin
                  9 The Victorious Al-Aziz
                  10 The Compeller Al-Jabbar
                  11 The Greatest Al-Mutakabbir
                  12 The Creator Al-Khaliq
                  13 The Maker of Order Al-Bari'
                  14 The Shaper of Beauty Al-Musawwir
                  15 The Forgiving Al-Ghaffar
                  16 The Subduer Al-Qahhar
                  17 The Giver of All Al-Wahhab
                  18 The Sustainer Ar-Razzaq
                  19 The Opener Al-Fattah
                  20 The Knower of All Al-Alim 21 The Constrictor Al-Qabid 22 The Reliever Al-Basit 23 The Abaser Al-Khafid 24 The Exalter Ar-Rafi 25 The Bestower of Honors Al-Mu'izz 26 The Humiliator Al-Mudhill 27 The Hearer of All As-Sami 28 The Seer of All Al-Basir 29 The Judge Al-Hakam 30 The Just Al-Adl
                  31 The Subtle One Al-Latif
                  32 The All-Aware Al-Khabir
                  33 The Forbearing Al-Halim
                  34 The Magnificent Al-Azim
                  35 The Forgiver and Hider of Faults Al-Ghafur
                  36 The Rewarder of Thankfulness Ash-Shakur
                  37 The Highest Al-Ali
                  38 The Greatest Al-Kabir
                  39 The Preserver Al-Hafiz
                  40 The Nourisher Al-Muqit
                  41 The Accounter Al-Hasib
                  42 The Mighty Al-Jalil
                  43 The Generous Al-Karim
                  44 The Watchful One Ar-Raqib
                  45 The Responder to Prayer Al-Mujib
                  46 The All-Comprehending Al-Wasi
                  47 The Perfectly Wise Al-Hakim
                  48 The Loving One Al-Wadud
                  49 The Majestic One Al-Majid
                  50 The Resurrector Al-Ba'ith
                  51 The Witness Ash-Shahid
                  52 The Truth Al-Haqq
                  53 The Trustee Al-Wakil
                  54 The Possessor of All Strength Al-Qawiyy
                  55 The Forceful One Al-Matin
                  56 The Governor Al-Waliyy
                  57 The Praised One Al-Hamid
                  58 The Appraiser Al-Muhsi
                  59 The Originator Al-Mubdi'
                  60 The Restorer Al-Mu'id
                  61 The Giver of Life Al-Muhyi
                  62 The Taker of Life Al-Mumit
                  63 The Ever Living One Al-Hayy
                  64 The Self-Existing One Al-Qayyum
                  65 The Finder Al-Wajid
                  66 The Glorious Al-Majid
                  67 The One, the All Inclusive, The Indivisible Al-Wahid
                  68 The Satisfier of All Needs As-Samad
                  69 The All Powerful Al-Qadir
                  70 The Creator of All Power Al-Muqtadir
                  71 The Expediter Al-Muqaddim
                  72 The Delayer Al-Mu'akhkhir
                  73 The First Al-Awwal
                  74 The Last Al-Akhir
                  75 The Manifest One Az-Zahir
                  76 The Hidden One Al-Batin
                  77 The Protecting Friend Al-Wali
                  78 The Supreme One Al-Muta'ali
                  79 The Doer of Good Al-Barr
                  80 The Guide to Repentance At-Tawwab
                  81 The Avenger Al-Muntaqim
                  82 The Forgiver Al-'Afuww
                  83 The Clement Ar-Ra'uf
                  84 The Owner of All Malik-al-Mulk
                  85 The Lord of Majesty and Bounty Dhu-al-Jalal wa-al-Ikram
                  86 The Equitable One Al-Muqsit
                  87 The Gatherer Al-Jami'
                  88 The Rich One Al-Ghani
                  89 The Enricher Al-Mughni
                  90 The Preventer of Harm Al-Mani'
                  91 The Creator of The Harmful Ad-Darr
                  92 The Creator of Good An-Nafi'
                  93 The Light An-Nur
                  94 The Guide Al-Hadi
                  95 The Originator Al-Badi
                  96 The Everlasting One Al-Baqi
                  97 The Inheritor of All Al-Warith
                  98 The Righteous Teacher Ar-Rashid
                  99 The Patient One As-Sabur

                  We cannot expect to enter Allah's heaven without these attributes.

                  Living happily in heaven while our action is inconsistent with Allah's attributes, Allah wishes?

                  Therefore, we should understand Allah's attributes, and mirror it in our daily action.

                  How to understand?

                  From reading the Qur'an, and it's priority according to the Allah's command in the Qur'an.

                  These are the conducts that are "Just and Balance".

                  Conducts that will qualify for the Allah's heaven, and conduct of the Prophets.

                  Righteous conduct .. to understand and "balance" all these attributes within ourselves.

                  Peace.

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    muslims
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #43

                    And not just in that scenario.Why single out iblis as prostrating to 'Allah Alone' when everything does? If you don't factor the willingness or lack thereof, then it's just selective for no good reason.

                    Salam,

                    Angels prostrate to Allah and Adam.

                    Peace.

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                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      muslims
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #44

                      Salam savage_carrot and Ors.,

                      Premise 1 Allah is "1" (<a href="http//quran.com/112">Sura 112</a&gt
                      Premise 2 Creation is "0"
                      Conclusion Therefore, nothing exists independently and outside/inside* of Allah.

                      • There is no outside or inside. There is only Allah, since Allah is "1".

                      #36 And to Allah belongs the east and the west
                      So wherever you turn
                      there is the Face of Allah

                      Thus the issues ...

                      What are the differences between Allah and His Creation?
                      What's the line separating Allah and His Creation, from the Qur'an?

                      The answer is in the Qur'an, and for those who are searching for truth and knows the reality; Comparison

                      • La ilaha illallah.
                      • Those who are "Idol Worshippers"/"God Alone"; ie. God =1, Creation = 1.1, 1.2, 1.3.. (division)
                      • Definition of "god' (<a href="http//quran.com/45/23">4523</a&gt.
                      • Whether Allah is God/god?
                      • What is "matter"?

                      Please correct me if I'm wrong; ie. that Allah is "1", and the Creation is "1".

                      Peace.

                      And when your Lord said to the angels
                      "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority"
                      They said,
                      "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood
                      while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?"
                      Allah said
                      "Indeed, I know that which you do not know"
                      (<a href="http//quran.com/2/30">230</a&gt

                      And when We said to the angels
                      "Prostrate before Adam" <- "Allah or God Alone" vs "Qur'an Alone" (Allah's command)

                      so they prostrated

                      except for Iblees
                      He refused
                      and was arrogant
                      and became of
                      the disbelievers
                      (<a href="http//quran.com/2/34">234</a&gt

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                      • D Offline
                        D Offline
                        DrGm
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #45

                        Premise 1 Allah is "1" (<a href="http//quran.com/112">Sura 112</a&gt
                        Premise 2 Creation is "0"
                        Please correct me if I'm wrong; ie. that Allah is "1", and the Creation is "1".

                        Peace.

                        peace,

                        Allah is "0" - cannot be seen / beyond knowledge

                        creation is "1" - can be seen / within knowledge

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                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          muslims
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #46

                          peace,

                          Allah is "0" - cannot be seen / beyond knowledge

                          creation is "1" - can be seen / within knowledge

                          Salam DrGm,

                          So you are saying creation is "within knowledge"

                          and Allah is not within our knowledge.

                          Whatever within our knowledge is "1"

                          Therefore, Allah is "0" .. and Creation is "1"

                          The question...

                          What is existence?

                          How do you know you exist?

                          Can you prove to me your existence?

                          Peace.

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            muslims
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #47

                            Say He is Allah, the One! (<a href="http//quran.com/112/1">1121</a&gt

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                            • D Offline
                              D Offline
                              DrGm
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #48

                              Salam DrGm,

                              So you are saying creation is "within knowledge"

                              and Allah is not within our knowledge.

                              Therefore, Allah is "0" .. and Creation is "1"

                              The question...

                              How do you know you exist?

                              Peace.

                              peace,

                              • i believe.
                              • creation can be seen. so you ask How do you know you exist? this is within knowledge.
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                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                muslims
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #49

                                peace,

                                • i believe.
                                • creation can be seen. so you ask How do you know you exist? this is within knowledge.

                                Salam DrGm,

                                What you have seen, is what have been interpreted by your "eyes", "senses" and "mind".

                                Internal vs. External, and this is not proof since your external image merely existed in your internal interpretation of self. It is only what you have seen (external) in your mind (internal). The whole world and creation is only existed in your mind. It is an image in your mind, the same way we are watching television.

                                Similarly, how do you know your "eyes" and "mind" exist?

                                Please prove to me that it is within your knowledge, that you exist, that you are "1".

                                Peace.

                                p/s more explanation, watch <a href="http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y">Perception - The reality beyond matter</a>

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                                • D Offline
                                  D Offline
                                  DrGm
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #50

                                  peace,

                                  when u ask a question to others / outside u then it is division. each division is one. meaning different, not same.

                                  when u ask question to self. then it is one, existence

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    muslims
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #51

                                    peace,

                                    when u ask a question to others / outside u then it is division. each division is one. meaning different, not same.

                                    when u ask question to self. then it is one, existence

                                    Salam DrGm,

                                    Sorry, you have to explain further. I cannot fully understand your explanation.

                                    My point is you are saying Allah is "0" and creations are "1" because it is within our knowledge that we're exist. Therefore, the issue for existence is "within our knowledge", and thus, I'm asking you to prove your existence, to prove what you've called a reality; ie. Creations are "1".

                                    You then said it is because what we have seen, through our senses and mind. This is not proof, because the whole world and what we have seen is only an "image in our mind" (internal), what have been interpreted by our "senses and mind", whereas proof for existence is something that are "external from our mind".

                                    Similarly, we can disregard everything and discuss on one single definition, ie. based on the definition that all matter is made up of tiny particles called atoms. Therefore, can you prove that it is within our knowledge that atomic particle or space exist? That it's existence not merely an image in our mind (internal), or interpretation of our brain (atoms) from the input of our senses.

                                    Therefore, please provide proof that it is within your knowledge that your eyes and brain exist.

                                    Peace.

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                                      DrGm
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #52

                                      peace,

                                      My point is you are saying Allah is "0" and creations are "1" because it is within our knowledge that we're exist. Therefore, the issue for existence is "within our knowledge", and thus, I'm asking you to prove your existence, to prove what you've called realities; ie. Creations are "1".

                                      when i said 'within knowledge; you deduced as existence.

                                      so, existence is which can be seen and is within knowledge. all knowledge / which can be seen by our senses is perishable by a time-frame. all which can be seen/figure is "1" that is perishable. because it is perishable, it is not true.

                                      all creation starts from "0" (1967). when it is created it is "1" and then there are many ones except the One "0" that cannot be defined by your knowledge i.e., beyond knowledge.

                                      present is reality; past is dead, knowledge is past. proving reality is no need; proving dead has no use. what is prove?

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                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        muslims
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #53

                                        And when your Lord said to the angels
                                        "Indeed, I will make upon the earth
                                        a successive authority" <-- Purpose of creation - Khalif (Manager)

                                        They said
                                        "Will You place upon it one
                                        who causes corruption therein <-- Khalif - To manage the earth and in these kind of situations.
                                        and sheds blood
                                        while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?"

                                        Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know" <-- Creation is "0"

                                        And He taught Adam <-- Knowledge of the Unseen? (see below)
                                        the names<-- It is unreasonable to interpret that Allah teaches Adam the name of animals,
                                        all of them insects, mosquitoes etc. The angels already knew these names.
                                        Then He showed them to the angels and said
                                        "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful"

                                        They said
                                        "Exalted are You
                                        we have no knowledge
                                        except what You have taught us
                                        Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise."

                                        He said
                                        "O Adam, inform them of their names"
                                        And when he had informed them of their names, He said
                                        "Did I not tell you
                                        that I know the unseen <-- Knowledge of the Unseen? Allah's names & Sunnatullah?
                                        of the heavens and the earth?
                                        And I know what you reveal
                                        and what you have concealed"

                                        And when We said to the angels
                                        "Prostrate before Adam" <-- Prostrate to Adam or his function/knowledge of just & balance?
                                        so they prostrated His Objective. Functional definition? Obviously Adam is not god.
                                        except for Iblees <-- Iblees claim he has better knowledge?
                                        He refused
                                        and was arrogant
                                        and became of the disbelievers

                                        And We said
                                        "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise
                                        and eat therefrom in abundance from wherever you will
                                        But DO NOT approach this tree <-- The Sunnatullah?
                                        lest you be among the wrongdoers"

                                        But Satan caused them to slip out of it <-- Breach of Sunnatullah
                                        and removed them from that
                                        in which they had been

                                        And We said <-- Consequence of breaching the Sunnatullah
                                        "Go down,
                                        as enemies to one another <-- Problem. Call for Khalif's function & knowledge.
                                        and you will have upon the earth
                                        a place of settlement
                                        and provision for a time."

                                        Then Adam received from his Lord
                                        words <-- Improve self.
                                        and He accepted his repentance
                                        Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance
                                        the Merciful.

                                        We said
                                        "Go down from it
                                        all of you
                                        And when guidance comes to you from Me <-- Solution. Follow the Prophet or his knowledge?
                                        whoever follows Dayn - Debt - Duty - Compliance with Sunnatullah
                                        My guidance <-- The Qur'an, Just and Balance
                                        there will be no fear concerning them
                                        nor will they grieve

                                        And those who disbelieve
                                        and deny Our signs <-- Obedience or disobedience? "DO NOT" prohibition
                                        those will be companions of the Fire
                                        they will abide therein eternally."

                                        (<a href="http//quran.com/2/30-39">230-39</a&gt

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                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          muslims
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #54

                                          peace,
                                          when i said 'within knowledge; you deduced as existence.

                                          so, existence is which can be seen and is within knowledge. all knowledge / which can be seen by our senses is perishable by a time-frame. all which can be seen/figure is "1" that is perishable. because it is perishable, it is not true.

                                          all creation starts from "0" (1967). when it is created it is "1" and then there are many ones except the One "0" that cannot be defined by your knowledge i.e., beyond knowledge.

                                          present is reality; past is dead, knowledge is past. proving reality is no need; proving dead has no use. what is prove?

                                          Salam DrGm,

                                          We can never find out the answer
                                          unless you can back up your argument by proving your existence
                                          and even to the level of atomic particles

                                          Something that is not merely existed from the "image and interpretation of our mind".
                                          (lesson from dreaming during our sleep - it is not reality)

                                          If you cannot prove, then that's what Allah said

                                          "I know that which you do not know"

                                          So human must stop making decisions in the name of Allah (<a href="http//quran.com/10/39">1039</a&gt

                                          And they need to follow Allah's command, the guidance...

                                          Even if it is an order to prostrate to any other than Allah.

                                          Only then will Allah guide us to reality .. the truth on the issue,

                                          as what you've said, Allah is "0", we are "1" after being created, and there are many ones.

                                          On my part, Allah is "1", we are "0" because we cannot prove our own existence or matter..

                                          much or less equal to our dreams .. and in search for the reality .. according to Allah's guidance (<a href="http//quran.com/2/18">218</a&gt.

                                          Peace.

                                          Say "He is Allah, One. (<a href="http//quran.com/112/1">1121</a&gt

                                          He begets not, nor was He begotten. (<a href="http//quran.com/112/3">1123</a&gt

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