Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. General Issues / Questions
  4. What is Islam?

What is Islam?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
615 Posts 36 Posters 66.9k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • W Offline
    W Offline
    Wiselite
    wrote on last edited by
    #334

    Peace DrFazl,

    This ayat comes to my mind and confirms to me what you have written above

    283
    And remember We took a covenant from the Children of Israel saying "Worship none but Allah; and do good to parents, to relatives, orphans, and the needy; and speak to people good words; be steadfast in prayer; and practice regular charity. Then you turned back except a few of you and now too you turn aside.

    All praise to The Teacher, The Guide - Allah alone.

    gita.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • M Offline
      M Offline
      muslims
      wrote on last edited by
      #335

      Salam drfazl

      Firstly,

      When you come to know the truth any of your family members denies Allah and rejects the faiths stands between you and Allah and in His path of righteousness you shall sever them off. It is very important sacrifice you make severing all relationships with such kind of people, however closely related they might be. Examples being Prophet Ibrahim's father; prophet Lut's wife; prophet Nuh's wife and son to mention directly from Quran.

      For the word piety I take the meaning as loving relations and sacrificial love involving my household parents, children, brothers, wife, relations far and near, if I find them blocking my way in the path of Allah and if they force me to deny and belie Allah and His guidance. I give up my relationship with them and spend my life with love sacrificed for the sake of paradise. It is not that as you incorrectly maintain, I am giving my said relations or spend relations which carries no meaning at all.

      Sorry, wrong guessing and your belief are inconsistent with the Qur'an. Your ideology is the same ideology of Sunni and Shiah religions, promoting hate, wars and hatred in the humanity and family institutions. Whereas the Qur'an clearly states....

      And We have enjoined upon man
      for his parents
      His mother carried him
      in weakness upon weakness
      and his weaning is in two years
      Be grateful to Me and to your parents <- be grateful to your parents (refer here)
      to Me is the destination.
      But if they endeavor to make you associate with Me
      that of which you have no knowledge
      do not obey them
      but accompany them in (this) world <- stay and don't give up your relationship with them
      with appropriate kindness <- be kind as of a child to his parent (refer here), not make enemy
      and follow the way of those who turn back to Me
      Then to Me will be your return
      and I will inform you about what you used to do
      (3114-15)

      Secondly,

      The ayats of Allah 924., 5822 surely endorses such take of mine. What is your take?

      Again, sorry.. you are misquoting the words of Allah and distorted its true meaning to support your conclusion. All the ayats you are referring to is relates to the circumstances during the Jihad (war) and Muslim being extremely oppressed. The same right is given to the non-believers, and Allah will help the non-believers if they are oppressed by the Muslim (refer here).

      The ones who have believed <- Situation of extreme oppression;
      emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah <- eg. 285, 2191, 2217, 2191, 2246
      with their wealth
      and their lives
      are greater in rank in the sight of Allah
      And it is those who are the attainers
      Their Lord gives them good tidings of mercy from Him
      and approval
      and of gardens for them wherein is enduring pleasure
      abiding therein forever
      Indeed, Allah has with Him a great reward
      O you who have believed
      do not take your fathers
      or your brothers as allies
      if they have preferred disbelief over belief
      And whoever does so among you
      then it is those who are the wrongdoers
      Say, "If your fathers <- the ayat you are relying for your argument
      your sons
      your brothers
      your wives
      your relatives
      wealth which you have obtained
      commerce wherein you fear decline
      and dwellings with which you are pleased
      are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger
      and jihad in His cause
      then wait until Allah executes His command
      And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people"
      Allah has already given you victory in many regions <- wars
      and on the day of Hunayn
      when your great number pleased you<- wars
      but it did not avail you at all
      and the earth was confining for you with its vastness
      then you turned back, fleeing
      Then Allah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger
      and upon the believers
      and sent down soldiers angels <- wars
      whom you did not see
      and punished those who disbelieved
      And that is the recompense of the disbelievers
      Then Allah will accept repentance
      after that for whom He wills
      and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful
      (920-27)

      They took their oaths as a cover <- the jews and the munafiqoon making allies
      so they averted from the way of Allah
      and for them is a humiliating punishment
      Never will their wealth or their children
      avail them against Allah at all
      Those are the companions of the Fire
      they will abide therein eternally
      On the Day Allah will resurrect them all
      and they will swear to Him
      as they swear to you
      and think that they are on something
      Unquestionably, it is they who are the liars
      Satan has overcome them
      and made them forget the remembrance of Allah
      Those are the party of Satan
      Unquestionably, the party of Satan
      they will be the losers
      Indeed, the ones who oppose Allah and His Messenger <- during oppression and wars
      those will be among the most humbled
      Allah has written, "I will surely overcome, I and My messengers" <- during oppression and wars
      Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might
      You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day <- the ayat you are relying for your argument
      having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger
      even if they were their fathers
      or their sons
      or their brothers
      or their kindred
      Those - He has decreed within their hearts faith
      and supported them with spirit from Him
      And We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow
      wherein they abide eternally
      Allah is pleased with them
      and they are pleased with Him
      those are the party of Allah
      Unquestionably, the party of Allah - they are the successful
      (5816-22)

      p/s Further, I couldn't agree with your argument since there are in the Qur'an to be fair and good to the non believers, notwithstanding their religions. The true meanings of a Muslim and believers, and the actual contexts have been distorted by the Arabs to suit the agenda of sectarianism and Islam as a religion.

      and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers
      those who say, "We are Christians." <- Allah confirmed that they are good peoples
      That is because among them are priests and monks
      and because they are not arrogant
      (582)

      This also includes the context of the ayat you are quoting above. For example, how you are misquoting and distorted the true meanings of the ayat by generalizing the ayat that relating to "takes them for a guardian", jihad (self defense), and during the emigration of Muslim as generally making all the non-believers as an enemy and sacrifice them in the way of Allah (923); ie. sectarianism.

      Whereas the Qur'an says Allah will help the non-believers.

      Permission to fight is given
      to those against whom war is made <- not referring to Muslim, rights given to all human beings
      because they have been wronged <- religion vs. just and balance
      and Allah indeed has the power to help them <- Allah will help the non-believers
      (2230)

      Why are you repeatedly and keep on distorting the words of Allah?

      Why do you hate the non-believers based on sectarianism?

      Because of wars? Revenge? Economy and Poverty?

      Thirdly,

      To know the meaning of the above sentence you shall know the meanings of Truth/ mean/ ayat/ absolute/ guidance/ seek/ become free/ difficulty/ Quran etc. You have to spread out the thesaurus on your study table and choose your meaning of choice for every word used above depending upon the mood and situation each one is.

      Now with this understand in mind you look into, 392 By no means shall you attain Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, etc., it means here Allah's Reward, i.e. Paradise), unless you spend (in Allah's Cause) of that which you love; and whatever of good you spend, Allah knows it well.

      The verse has following words piety/ righteousness/ reward/ paradise/ spend/ love/ good/ Allah. Let us take one word of it and see how diversely we can assess and access to, say piety
      Piety devout ness/ dutifulness/ godliness.
      Devout reverent feelings/exercises; heartfelt/dear/sincere
      Dear Highly valued;/ greatly beloved/ cherished/ precious
      Beloved loving relationship/ sacrificial love.

      You are still rambling. Ignoring the context of the ayat and make an argument from what is pleasing for you to imagine; rather than according to evidence or reason. Wishful Thinking.

      So this is how you interprets 391 & 92?

      This is how you interpret the word "spend" in 391 & 92? hmm

      Well.. I have nothing to say on your methodology and despite repeated request for a direct authority to support our main issue, you are rambling and with a long-winded inconsequential irrelevant explanation, lack of focus, generalize the issue, and still cannot point out how 391 & 92 can be interpreted as to give "our parents, children, brothers, wives, relatives" in the way of Allah. Neither can you support your conclusion from Sura ali-Imran, other than making a conclusion based on what you "personally feel" is the right things to say; ie. a decision made according to what might be pleasing to imagine, rather than according to evidence or reason.

      My argument remains as follows

      (refer above)

      Peace peace

      p.s discussion starts from here

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • M Offline
        M Offline
        muslims
        wrote on last edited by
        #336

        cont.

        and some comparisons on the pattern of arguments..

        To know the meaning of the above sentence you shall know the meanings of Truth/ mean/ ayat/ absolute/ guidance/ seek/ become free/ difficulty/ Quran etc. You have to spread out the thesaurus on your study table and choose your meaning of choice for every word used above depending upon the mood and situation each one is.

        The Islamic clergy expends great energy trying to account for these inconsistencies and contradictions. Their answers to your common-sense observations may involve various choices of words, yet the thrust can broadly be summarised thus in order to understand the Hadith you have to be very learned. There seem to be contradictions in the Hadith to you because you are not learned. They ? the clergy ? are learned. Therefore, they do not see contradictions. When you are learned like them you, too, will not see contradictions. Until you are as learned as they you cannot contend with them on this (or any) subject. The fact that you fail to perceive any of this only testifies to your own ignorance; A Study of the Qur'an

        Whereas the Qur'an says...

        It is He who has sent down to you the Book

        in it are verses precise
        they are the foundation of the Book

        and others unspecific

        As for those in whose hearts is deviation
        they will follow that of it which is unspecific
        seeking discord and seeking an interpretation

        And no one knows its interpretation except Allah

        But those firm in knowledge say
        "We believe in it. All is from our Lord."
        And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
        (37)

        refer also 5101 and 267-71

        inconsistently...

        Accordingly, if Quran is a guidance to each individual from the beginning to the end of the world; and from birth to the death of each person, the context of any ayat is closely connected to each one's individualistic, and constantly changing situation of his life at any point of time; and his grade and degree of life he is living, from the heavens down to the earth.

        How do you take the observation , " only Allah knows the true meanings of His ayats?" Would you say, 'yes?' Therefore all your Arabic language and lexicons would be fruitless to tread the path of righteousness. The proof of righteousness of your interpretation lies only in your living out that which you interpret.

        Quranic context is your individual situation at any point in your lifetime. Every ayat and every word of the same ayat has 8 billion contexts if presently there is 8 billion population. And the situations in each person change by the moment and accordingly the meanings of the same ayat changes and the guidance would be perfect in the Name of Allah, the only Guide, at that moment of time if only one looks up to Him Alone without committing association.

        logically...

        I hope we don't have 8 billion gods, with 8 billion contexts of the Qur'an... &

        There is a difference between "the context of the ayat" (Qur'anic context - words of Allah) and "what you may understood by it" (your context - your philosophy). This is what happened in the past, where the ulama are imposing their own context to the Qur'an, as it is the Qur'an (claiming absolute truth). Therefore, I believe your methodology or concept of interpretation that "the context of any ayat is closely connected to each one's individualistic" are contradicting the following ayats. It will cause deviation and division in the society since many peoples have many different interpretations of the Qur'an, according to their own desires (4523)(2543).

        So direct your face toward the deen, inclining to truth
        the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created people
        No change should there be in the creation of Allah (deen)
        That is the correct deen
        but most of the people do not know
        (3030)

        O you who have believed
        DO NOT ask about things which
        if they are shown to you
        will distress you
        But if you ask about them while the Qur'an is being revealed
        they will be shown to you
        Allah has pardoned that which is past
        and Allah is Forgiving and Forbearing
        (5101)

        And indeed, there is among them a party
        who alter the Scripture
        with their tongues
        so you may think it is from the Scripture
        but it is not from the Scripture
        And they say, "This is from Allah ,"
        but it is not from Allah
        And they speak untruth about Allah while they know
        (378)

        Peace peace

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • D Offline
          D Offline
          drfazl
          wrote on last edited by
          #337

          Salam drfazl

          Firstly,

          Sorry, wrong guessing and your belief are inconsistent with the Qur'an. Your ideology is the same ideology of Sunni and Shiah religions, promoting hate, wars and hatred in the humanity and family institutions. Whereas the Qur'an clearly states....

          "Wrong-guessing", "inconsistent with Quran" how sure are you that you self assume as you are the author of Quran itself. And how sincerely obedient are you in your highly deplorable statement 'I promote hatred amongst families and wars against nations; and further I belong to the sectarians like Sunni and Shias, which sectarianism Allah disapproves of?' Please restrain from saying what you do not know for such actions will reduce one's discerning capabilities, which could be the worst loss one could suffer in this life. Seek forgiveness.

          And We have enjoined upon man
          for his parents
          His mother carried him
          in weakness upon weakness
          and his weaning is in two years
          Be grateful to Me and to your parents
          to Me is the destination.

          But if they endeavor to make you associate with Me
          that of which you have no knowledge
          do not obey
          but accompany them in world<- stay and don't give up your relationship with them
          with appropriate kindness <- be kind as of a child to his parent (refer here), not make enemy
          and follow the way of those who turn back to Me
          Then to Me will be your return
          and I will inform you about what you used to do
          (3114-15)

          I bring to notice the bold red word 'endeavour' which means extreme pressure on you to set up partners to Allah to the extent of even terrorising you to death. This happened to Ibrahim. If you read the prophet's history in sura al Maryam, 46 - 49 He, the father said "Do you reject my gods, O Ibrahim? If you stop not this, I will indeed stone you. So get away from me safely before I punish you." ....So, when Ibrahim had given them up, and that which they were worshipping beside Allah, We gave him Isaac and Jacob. Each of them We made a prophet.

          And now follow it up with Allah's admonition in 2130. And who turns away from the righteousness of Ibrahim except him who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous.

          What is your take on such course of Ibrahim? According to you Ibrahim promoted hatred amongst families and wars against nations! Why are you rejecting Allah's verses simply because His verses are against your esteemed view on life and matters?

          Peace.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • D Offline
            D Offline
            drfazl
            wrote on last edited by
            #338

            Salam drfazl

            Firstly,

            Sorry, wrong guessing and your belief are inconsistent with the Qur'an. Your ideology is the same ideology of Sunni and Shiah religions, promoting hate, wars and hatred in the humanity and family institutions. Whereas the Qur'an clearly states....

            And We have enjoined upon man
            for his parents
            His mother carried him
            in weakness upon weakness
            and his weaning is in two years
            Be grateful to Me and to your parents <- be grateful to your parents (refer here)
            to Me is the destination.
            But if they endeavor to make you associate with Me
            that of which you have no knowledge
            do not obey them
            but accompany them in (this) world <- stay and don't give up your relationship with them
            with appropriate kindness <- be kind as of a child to his parent (refer here), not make enemy
            and follow the way of those who turn back to Me
            Then to Me will be your return
            and I will inform you about what you used to do
            (3114-15)

            Secondly,

            Again, sorry.. you are misquoting the words of Allah and distorted its true meaning to support your conclusion. All the ayats you are referring to is relates to the circumstances during the Jihad (war) and Muslim being extremely oppressed. The same right is given to the non-believers, and Allah will help the non-believers if they are oppressed by the Muslim (refer here).

            The ones who have believed <- Situation of extreme oppression;
            emigrated and striven in the cause of Allah <- eg. 285, 2191, 2217, 2191, 2246
            with their wealth
            and their lives
            are greater in rank in the sight of Allah
            And it is those who are the attainers
            Their Lord gives them good tidings of mercy from Him
            and approval
            and of gardens for them wherein is enduring pleasure
            abiding therein forever
            Indeed, Allah has with Him a great reward
            O you who have believed
            do not take your fathers
            or your brothers as allies
            if they have preferred disbelief over belief
            And whoever does so among you
            then it is those who are the wrongdoers
            Say, "If your fathers <- the ayat you are relying for your argument
            your sons
            your brothers
            your wives
            your relatives
            wealth which you have obtained
            commerce wherein you fear decline
            and dwellings with which you are pleased
            are more beloved to you than Allah and His Messenger
            and jihad in His cause
            then wait until Allah executes His command
            And Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people"
            Allah has already given you victory in many regions <- wars
            and on the day of Hunayn
            when your great number pleased you<- wars
            but it did not avail you at all
            and the earth was confining for you with its vastness
            then you turned back, fleeing
            Then Allah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger
            and upon the believers
            and sent down soldiers angels <- wars
            whom you did not see
            and punished those who disbelieved
            And that is the recompense of the disbelievers
            Then Allah will accept repentance
            after that for whom He wills
            and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful
            (920-27)

            They took their oaths as a cover <- the jews and the munafiqoon making allies
            so they averted from the way of Allah
            and for them is a humiliating punishment
            Never will their wealth or their children
            avail them against Allah at all
            Those are the companions of the Fire
            they will abide therein eternally
            On the Day Allah will resurrect them all
            and they will swear to Him
            as they swear to you
            and think that they are on something
            Unquestionably, it is they who are the liars
            Satan has overcome them
            and made them forget the remembrance of Allah
            Those are the party of Satan
            Unquestionably, the party of Satan
            they will be the losers
            Indeed, the ones who oppose Allah and His Messenger <- during oppression and wars
            those will be among the most humbled
            Allah has written, "I will surely overcome, I and My messengers" <- during oppression and wars
            Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might
            You will not find a people who believe in Allah and the Last Day <- the ayat you are relying for your argument
            having affection for those who oppose Allah and His Messenger
            even if they were their fathers
            or their sons
            or their brothers
            or their kindred
            Those - He has decreed within their hearts faith
            and supported them with spirit from Him
            And We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow
            wherein they abide eternally
            Allah is pleased with them
            and they are pleased with Him
            those are the party of Allah
            Unquestionably, the party of Allah - they are the successful
            (5816-22)

            Why are you repeatedly and keep on distorting the words of Allah?

            Why do you hate the non-believers based on sectarianism?

            Because of wars? Revenge? Economy and Poverty?

            Brother, can you try remove all your red insinuations into the ayats and make clean readings of the ayat? Please try it. I think without injecting into the ayat you cannot make a posting which if you do should be a readable material. Please remove them all and re-write.

            Thirdly,

            You are still rambling. Ignoring the context of the ayat and make an argument from what is pleasing for you to imagine; rather than according to evidence or reason. Wishful Thinking.

            Come to subject instead of writing things out of context to this forum, leave alone context to Quran.

            Peace

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • M Offline
              M Offline
              muslims
              wrote on last edited by
              #339

              I bring to notice the bold red word 'endeavour' which means extreme pressure on you to set up partners to Allah to the extent of even terrorising you to death.

              Salam

              Okay, I can see you have nothing else to complaint off, raising another irrelevant issues.

              But if they endeavor to make you associate with Me
              that of which you have no knowledge
              do not obey them
              but accompany them in (this) world <- stay and don't give up your relationship with them
              with appropriate kindness <- be kind as of a child to his parent (refer here), not make enemy

              (3114-15)

              Further, your argument relating to endeavor is now supporting my argument that Muslims should not give up and keep their duty to the non-believers (parents), and since Allah continues by saying "but accompany them in (this) world with appropriate kindness". The best part is that you have extended further my arguments; ie......

              Muslims should accompany their non-believers parents and treats them with appropriate kindness (duty of a son to his parents) despite "extreme pressure on you to set up partners to Allah to the extent of even terrorising you to death" (ie. your new argument).

              extreme pressure on you to set up partners to Allah to the extent of even terrorising you to death.

              Comparison with your old argument...

              I take the meaning as loving relations and sacrificial love involving my household parents, children, brothers, wife, relations far and near, if I find them blocking my way in the path of Allah and if they force me to deny and belie Allah and His guidance. I give up my relationship with them and spend my life with love sacrificed for the sake of paradise. It is not that as you incorrectly maintain, I am giving my said relations or spend relations which carries no meaning at all.

              Why you are getting confused with your own arguments? hmm

              You are making an argument without understanding what you really believe?

              Peace peace

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • D Offline
                D Offline
                drfazl
                wrote on last edited by
                #340

                The Islamic clergy expends great energy trying to account for these inconsistencies and contradictions. Their answers to your common-sense observations may involve various choices of words, yet the thrust can broadly be summarised thus in order to understand the Hadith you have to be very learned. There seem to be contradictions in the Hadith to you because you are not learned. They ? the clergy ? are learned. Therefore, they do not see contradictions. When you are learned like them you, too, will not see contradictions. Until you are as learned as they you cannot contend with them on this (or any) subject. The fact that you fail to perceive any of this only testifies to your own ignorance; A Study of the Qur'an

                What is this Hadith, clergy, learned etc you are speaking about. Surely I have not brought up this subject. I think this post is wrongly directed to me. Please, is this meant for me?

                Peacev

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  muslims
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #341

                  and some comparisons on the pattern of arguments..

                  Salam..

                  Read again, it says "pattern of arguments"..

                  Peace peace

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • D Offline
                    D Offline
                    drfazl
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #342

                    cont.

                    and some comparisons on the pattern of arguments..

                    Whereas the Qur'an says...

                    It is He who has sent down to you the Book

                    in it are verses precise
                    they are the foundation of the Book

                    and others unspecific

                    As for those in whose hearts is deviation
                    they will follow that of it which is unspecific
                    seeking discord and seeking an interpretation

                    And no one knows its interpretation except Allah

                    But those firm in knowledge say
                    "We believe in it. All is from our Lord."
                    And no one will be reminded except those of understanding.
                    (37)

                    refer also 5101 and 267-71

                    inconsistently...

                    logically...

                    Peace peace

                    What are you bringing this ayat 37 for? Did I reject his ayat? Or did I request you to discuss? If you really want to discuss the ayat we shall discuss it exclusively so. But it seems you pick up ayats here and there only to put me into your red whimsical explanation that which you fancy. And before having an idea of fixing some one using a particular ayat, please remember the same explanation you bring would fit you more than fixing your opponent. Hence do not hunt for ayats; it sure shall haunt you.

                    Peace

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      muslims
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #343

                      Salam

                      Read again, slowly... you are spamming this thread with irrelevant questions and ignoring our real issues. pr

                      Peace.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • D Offline
                        D Offline
                        drfazl
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #344

                        Salam..

                        Read again, it says "pattern of arguments"..

                        Peace peace

                        With Quran there can never be argument if you fear Allah; and you began arguing from the word go. Instead just say your view without contradicting others' views; let as many as 8 million views pour in. You must have the criterion and patience to choose the best of them all. Such are the people who are men of understanding; and Allah conducts in righteousness only such of these people.

                        Peace

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • D Offline
                          D Offline
                          drfazl
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #345

                          Salam

                          Read again, slowly... you are spamming this thread with irrelevant questions and ignoring our real issues. pr

                          Peace.

                          Do you know the meaning of spam? How come you consider yourself as single, one man largest recipient group in this thread? I have bundles of issues with every posting of yours but I never contested any of them. I have posted just one post a weak ago and you said
                          You can enlighten us with your understanding or perspectives.

                          I have not made an argument here; but if it is thrust on me, I have no way except to try to make clear my view point from every angle possible. I have not passed a single comment on you, unlike you. Say your view against my view, without challenges and comments. This is the main principle to have in mind when it comes to Quran. Subdue, submit and surrender to Allah while writing your perspectives on an ayat for Allah knows best. Wait eagerly for any better input. If you find unworthy posts, all we have to do is just ignore and seek forgiveness for him and for yourself, for we have become judgemental already.

                          Peace and I stop here with you
                          May Allah Guide Us All

                          Salam
                          fazlur rahman

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            muslims
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #346

                            With Quran there can never be argument if you fear Allah; and you began arguing from the word go. Instead just say your view without contradicting others' views; let as many as 8 million views pour in. You must have the criterion and patience to choose the best of them all. Such are the people who are men of understanding; and Allah conducts in righteousness only such of these people.

                            Peace

                            Salam

                            Where does it mention that it is an argument against Allah or the Qur'an? (REFER HERE)

                            AND as I said, read again.. slowly...

                            Peace

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • M Offline
                              M Offline
                              muslims
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #347

                              Do you know the meaning of spam? How come you consider yourself as single, one man largest recipient group in this thread?

                              Salam

                              Okay.. I think you are panicking and unable to use your rational minds (refer here and here). Let me know when you are able to relax and discuss logically on the issue.

                              Peace. yes

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • M Offline
                                M Offline
                                muslims
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #348

                                I have not made an argument here; but if it is thrust on me, I have no way except to try to make clear my view point from every angle possible.

                                Salam

                                No offense, but the above statement is implying an argument from your part. I am not referring to the argument of an ordinary man or what we ordinarily called as "quarreling" (which is not an argument), but from the point of Critical Thinking and Logical Analysis. A method to determine whether a conclusion is sound or unsound, a method to determine the validity of conclusions and separating the poor reasoning and fallacious arguments.

                                In logic and philosophy, an argument is an attempt to persuade someone of something, by giving reasons for accepting a particular conclusion as evident. The general structure of an argument in a natural language is that of premises (typically in the form of propositions, statements or sentences) in support of a claim the conclusion; Definition of an argument

                                A fallacy is an argument that uses poor reasoning; Fallacy

                                (example of poor reasoning, refer here, here and here)

                                The following is an ayat showing a Muslim must use reasoning and not relying on dogma or fallacious conclusions.

                                Indeed, the worst of living creatures
                                in the sight of Allah
                                are the deaf
                                and dumb
                                who do not use reason
                                (Al-Anfal22)

                                And among them are unlettered ones
                                who do not know the Scripture
                                except in wishful thinking
                                but they are only assuming
                                (278)

                                And if you obey most of those upon the earth
                                they will mislead you
                                from the way of Allah
                                They follow not
                                except assumption
                                and they are not
                                but falsifying
                                (6116)

                                And they have thereof no knowledge
                                They follow not
                                except assumption
                                and indeed
                                assumption avails not against the truth at all <- assumptions is not "Faith"
                                (5328)

                                "Condition" to be regarded as those who believe the Qur'an

                                So is one who upon a clear evidence from his Lord?
                                And a witness from Him follows it
                                and before it was the Scripture of Moses to lead and as mercy
                                Those believe in the Qur'an <- only these peoples believe the Qur'an
                                (1117)

                                Peace. peace

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • G Offline
                                  G Offline
                                  good_logic
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #349

                                  Peace brothers/sisters

                                  1276
                                  ... We exalt whomever we choose to higher ranks. Above every knowledgeable one, there is one who is even more knowledgeable.
                                  ....

                                  Discuss, respect and keep learning.

                                  May the Lord grant us more knowledge and wisdom.

                                  Peace to all.

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    muslims
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #350

                                    http//s16.postimg.org/cyvakuyx1/deen.png

                                    Towards Human Unity

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335929#msg335929">Tests from Allah</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335256#msg335256">Main Issue</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335480#msg335480">What is God Alone Religion? </a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335690#msg335690">Defintion of Just and Balance (Sunnatullah)</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335855#msg335855">What is Islam?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335472#msg335472">Prostrate to Adam</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336532#msg336532">The Common Aspects of Religions.</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335571#msg335571">Which is the right religion ?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336528#msg336528">The destructive aspect of the fire element.</a>

                                    For you is your deen, and for me is my deen

                                    Islam is not a religion (madhab)

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335361#msg335361">Islam A Challenge to Religion</a>

                                    A comparative study of religion or madhhab

                                    Whether Deen is Religion (Madhab)?

                                    Religion and the Fallacy of Generalization

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335823#msg335823">The Quranic Concept of Salvation</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335261#msg335261">Allah will never accept Religion of Islam</a>

                                    Examle of Deen <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336008#msg336008">1</a>, <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335737#msg335737">2</a>, <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335738#msg335738">3</a>, <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335739#msg335739">4</a>, <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335740#msg335740">5</a>, <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335741#msg335741">6</a>, <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335742#msg335742">7</a>.

                                    Beyond Religion Sunnatullah

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335531#msg335531">Purpose of creation</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335579#msg335579">What is "Sirat al-Mustaqim"?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336009#msg336009">What does Adam represent?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335753#msg335753">Descendants of Adam.</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335266#msg335266">Who is a Muslim?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335603#msg335603">The "DO NOT" prohibition</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605770.msg336452#msg336452">Hadith & Sects.</a> <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605770.msg336423#msg336423">Sura</a> + <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605770.msg336428#msg336428">Prohibition</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335928#msg335928">Impossible for people who i'tiqad to disobey Allah to enter Paradise.</a>

                                    Why Prophet Ibrahim and Muhammad was not a Jew or Christian?

                                    DO NOT die except as Muslims

                                    Description of a Muslim in the Qur'an

                                    A Muslim or a Bigot?

                                    Can a sectarian (a bigot) be a judge to other/all human beings?

                                    Borderline between a Muslim and a Bigot

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335476#msg335476">Muslim Job Scope</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335931#msg335931">Purpose of Life</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335891#msg335891">Alhamdu</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336009#msg336009">Allah Alone is no use for our salvation</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337721#msg337721">What is the actual standard to become a Muslim?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg338195#msg338195">No target for becoming a Muslim, the struggling and going is the goal</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg338241#msg338241">Graph</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg338517#msg338517">The process of returning to Allah</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg339592#msg339592">What is reward and sin?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg339593#msg339593">Allah Purifies Us</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336010#msg336010">Duty Awareness Program (Deen)</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335950#msg335950">What is Right or Wrong?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg337721#msg337721">What is Right or Wrong? (2)</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336077#msg336077">The Qur'an is about us.</a>

                                    What does the Qur'an teach?

                                    How to unlock the understanding of the Qur'an

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335263#msg335263">Duty To Ourselves</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335265#msg335265">Understanding The Quran</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335283#msg335283">Language of the Heart</a>

                                    Level of understanding the Qur'an

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335515#msg335515">What is Reality?</a> <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335521#msg335521">(2)</a>, <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335524#msg335524">(3)</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335788#msg335788">Qur'an is an introductory Book, Guidance or Manual.</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335810#msg335810">Signs</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335950#msg335950">Pleasure</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336130#msg336130">Dictionary of the Qur'an</a>

                                    Other forms of Shirk

                                    Shirk & the God and Ulema within ourselves

                                    Shirk in the form of a very fine

                                    The key to understand justly balanced

                                    The Qur'anic standard for the attainment of righteousness

                                    Some example on better way to give everything in the path of Allah

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335472#msg335472">Philosophy of Salat</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335474#msg335474">True Solat is Jihad?</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335659#msg335659">Formula for Success</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335483#msg335483">First Step - Fire</a>

                                    Purpose of Ibada

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335476#msg335476">Formula for Unity - Negotiator, Mediator and Conciliator</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335880#msg335880">Towards Human Unity</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg335750#msg335750">Unconditional Freedom</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336189#msg336189">The Flow of Ideas</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336234#msg336234">Example of Quranic Ideas</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336219#msg336219">Ideas of Just and Balance</a>

                                    <a href="http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg336265#msg336265">When Being Wrong Is Right</a>

                                    The Matrix of Justly Balanced For Our Salvation

                                    Why the matrix?

                                    Qur'an as the Confirming Book

                                    Look for similarities to unite the society

                                    Words (label) to be removed from the mind of any Muslim

                                    How to incorporate the Qur'an into any countries or laws?

                                    Islamic Constitution

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • A Offline
                                      A Offline
                                      ansmeh1998
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #351

                                      Dear brother Muslims Salaam!

                                      The job done by you in this thread clearly suggests that you are very thoughtful. Your work tells its own tale about your penchant of making a great deal of mull in the skull before breaking the lull. Usually, it is seen that at such level people get inflicted with arrogance. But I have every hope that your good self will not allow this menace to even touch you from outside. May Allah bless you with more precision of mind to maintain your best of standards and bring forth even better and better.

                                      Salaam!
                                      Mehjabeen

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        muslims
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #352

                                        Salam

                                        Thank you and human beings have several souls existed like layers of an onion, and each stage has its challenges and diseases, which all human beings have to confront during their spiritual journey; internally, as well as externally, and something which is inescapable to all human beings, and which have to be purified by consistent action of fasting, dzikir, meditation, sadaqah, good deeds and remembrance of Allah etc. However, it is not thinking but absorbing, sorry. Thinking alone will normally make us farther away from the right path since our minds are in the same group or is influenced by our lust or low desires. It is our duty to separate our minds from the low desires, so that we are able to project the right magnetic/electrical signals to our heart; ie. the door to our souls, who have witnessed and communicated with Allah (7172), existed in ourselves as "memory". The conclusion, it's a very tough job for becoming a real human beings, and may Allah bless all of us with better understanding and help us in the performance of our duty. pr

                                        And the soul and Him Who made it perfect
                                        Then He inspired it
                                        to understand
                                        what is right
                                        and wrong for it
                                        He will indeed be successful who purifies it
                                        And he will indeed fail who corrupts it
                                        (917-10)

                                        Peace peace

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • A Offline
                                          A Offline
                                          ansmeh1998
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #353

                                          Salaam dear brother Muslims,

                                          Without any doubt you have deep study of Al-Kitaab and you are equipped with profound knowledge by the Grace of Allah. I find you the right person who can deal with certain mind boggling queries appropriately confronting me for long arising out of various sources (not essential to spell out). Will you kindly permit me to ask the following questions?

                                          (i) Do you find resemblance of Allah's System of Governance within the Human Being? If yes, how?

                                          (ii) Do you find Prophets/Messengers and their tales mentioned in Quran within the Human Being? If yes, kindly explain.

                                          (iii) Do you find the Country named India resembles the Grand Quran? If at all yes, kindly throw light.

                                          (iv) Do you find the system of governance adopted by India (of course on paper) resembles Allah's System of Governance? True or False?

                                          (v) Do you find the Book of Allah confirms Sanskrit Scriptures considered Holy by the Hindus? True or False?

                                          (vi) Do you find Abraham = Brahma, Ismael = Mahesh, Ishaaq = Vishnu, Yaqub = Ganesha, Krishna = Moses, Ram = Mohammad etc.

                                          (vii) Do you find eating flesh of animals that survive on the Earth is unhealthy and not prescribed? True or False?

                                          I have put forth above questions just out of quest but do not expect to reject them in a haste. If at all you do not like them, kindly choose to ignore.

                                          Salaam!

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users