Abba or Allah
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Peace Israfeel
Here is one I thought long time aboutIs it possible for God to create such big stone he couldn?t carry.
But I think we now really getting off-topic. Or??
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Well you've already answered my questions. You said it is theoretically possible for God to create another God who is greater than Him, and you said it's theoretically possible for God to lie.
Therefore I say to you
For you your religion, and for me my religion.
I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship Who I worship.
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Salam Israfeel
I
do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship Who I worship.Who?are you to tell?
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Well you've already answered my questions. You said it is theoretically possible for God to create another God who is greater than Him, and you said it's theoretically possible for God to lie.
Therefore I say to you
For you your religion, and for me my religion.
I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship Who I worship.
Those were loaded questions, and it seems that they were not intended as legitimate (and off topic) questions, but as traps. Answer your own questions if you are honest--then others can metaphorically throw rocks at you!
Do you dispute that Heavenly Father is a potentially beautiful name? It is a term that could not be applied to any other than ALLAH. If you don't like the term, don't use it.
Your opinions pertaining to the Deen are valued with the exact same weight given to any extra-Qur'anic hadith. You can keep your hadith and traditions, and continue to follow what you found your forebears doing. Good luck with that; enjoy this life! )
"Wait, for we are waiting." )
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Greetings and Peace, all group
Peace Israfeel
Here is one I thought long time aboutIs it possible for God to create such big stone he couldn?t carry.
But I think we now really getting off-topic. Or??
Oh, this one is easy; the Almighty simply moves all else of creation around the stone; the stone is moved without moving.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
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Peace Abdul-Hadi
Oh, this one is easy; the Almighty simply moves all else of creation around the stone; the stone is moved without moving.
I like the idea.
But are you sure that this mean that that stone has been moved/lifted?
Actually I think it havn?t been moved. But only the rest.
Or? -
Greetings and Peace, all group
Those were loaded questions, and it seems that they were not intended as legitimate (and off topic) questions, but as traps. Answer your own questions if you are honest--then others can metaphorically throw rocks at you!
Do you dispute that Heavenly Father is a potentially beautiful name? It is a term that could not be applied to any other than ALLAH. If you don't like the term, don't use it.
Your opinions pertaining to the Deen are valued with the exact same weight given to any extra-Qur'anic hadith. You can keep your hadith and traditions, and continue to follow what you found your forebears doing. Good luck with that; enjoy this life! )
"Wait, for we are waiting." )
ALLAH knows best.
peace
~Abdul-Hadi
In other words . . . the Bible which Quran openly calls as corrupt . . . that you would follow? Yet those are the exact same people who transmitted Quran and those who transmitted Hadith.
Do you dispute that Heavenly Father is a potentially beautiful name?
Yes. If it was that good . . . Quran would have used it. As there are many names already given for the Almighty . . . why do you need extra?
This is but another example . . . how quickly "Quran only" shun the Quran.
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Peace The _Chimp
Yes. If it was that good . . . Quran would have used it. As there are many names already given for the Almighty . . . why do you need extra?
Muhammed isn?t the only messenger. Isaiah also was one.
He use the word "Father".
For the conclusion leading us there. Please read my earlier posts to you
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Peace The _Chimp
Muhammen isn?t the only messenger. Isaiah also was one.
He use the word father.
For the conclusion leading us there. Please read my earlier posts to you
There is no Isaiah mentioned in the Quran - or even in Hadith attributed to the Prophet Muhammad .
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Peace The_Chimp
There is no Isaiah mentioned in the Quran - or even in Hadith attributed to the Prophet Muhammad .
But Isaiah is in the Torah.
And conserning Torah I quoted this passage earlier to you
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah -
Peace The_Chimp
But Isaiah is in the Torah.And conserning Torah I quoted this passage earlier to you
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the TorahYes . . . but one cannot put much faith in the Torah . If you know a book is corrupt but do not know which bit . . . then . . .The only measure we actually have is the Quran.
Muslim sources actually do accept him . . . however I would take such extra-Quran material with a pinch of salt.
= = =
Another thing to keep in mind is that Quran does make Torah obsolete - the whole point of new revelations is to replace older ones.
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Peace The_Chimp
Yes . . . but one cannot put much faith in the Torah . If you know a book is corrupt but do not know which bit . . . then . . .The only measure we actually have is the Quran.
Muslim sources actually do accept him . . . however I would take such extra-Quran material with a pinch of salt.
= = =
Another thing to keep in mind is that Quran does make Torah obsolete - the whole point of new revelations is to replace older ones.
I agree that the New Testament is corrupted. But here we talking about the Torah.
When it`s said it authenticied, we shouldn?t be doubting Gods word.You can?t just like that chose, what you like or not. And say one is more new and therefor better.
If there is any contradiction offcause we must take the newest. Due to we assume this is send to adjust the primer one.But in this case it?s not the Question. Here the Torah on the contrary is confirmed.
Anyway, there are some doubt about which book are included in the Torah.
But we must assume its the ones present for Jesus as written in Holy Quran -
Peace The_Chimp
I agree that the New Testament is corrupted. But here we talking about the Torah.
When it`s said it authenticied, we shouldn?t be doubting Gods word.You can?t just like that chose, what you like or not. And say one is more new and therefor better.
If there is any contradiction offcause we must take the newest. Due to we assume this is send to adjust the primer one.But in this case it?s not the Question. Here the Torah on the contrary is confirmed.
Anyway, there are some doubt about which book are included in the Torah.
But we must assume its the ones present for Jesus as written in Holy QuranTorah too is corrupt.
When its said it authenticied we shouldn?t be doubting Gods word.
Is it - and by whom?
You can?t just like that chose what you like or not. And say one is newer. If there is any contradiction offcause we must take the newest. Because we assume its send to adjust the primer one.
But in this case it?s not the posibility. Here the Torah is confirmed.Quran is sufficient really. You can read Torah and NT as history . . . but that is about it. You might get a perspective or tow - but that is about it. What you cannot do is give the book similar status to the Quran.
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Peace The_Chimp
Torah too is corrupt.
Not according to HQ 5.46Quote
When its said it authenticied we shouldn?t be doubting Gods word.
Is it - and by whom?
I stated that many times. But here I try again 5.46
Quran is sufficient really. You can read Torah and NT as history . . . but that is about it. You might get a perspective or tow - but that is about it. What you cannot do is give the book similar status to the Quran.
I agree offcourse with you on your first point. Anyway its a question of believe.
But due to that, we can`t just look at The Torah as histories, when it according to the Quran (we see as sufficient) this book itself is confirmed as genuine and part of Gods messeage.(Changed in the ending)
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And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.
Quran 546
This in no way talks about corruption of Torah!
But due to that, we can`t just look at The Torah as histories, when it according to the Quran (we see as sufficient) this book itself is sufficient
It is perfectly possible that some law which as revealed in Torah but has now been repealed. Hence - even if one accepts Torah is not corrupt . . . even then I one does not follow Torah.
Having said the above I do acknowledge that some Sunni scholars of past were of the view that if Torah/Injeeel law has not been repealed then it still applies - however even they do not really give any examples .
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Peace The_Chimp
And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.
Quran 546
This in no way talks about corruption of Torah!
Yeah thats my point.
But you was the one saing so..It is perfectly possible that some law which as revealed in Torah but has now been repealed. Hence - even if one accepts Torah is not corrupt . . . even then I one does not follow Torah.
Having said the above I do acknowledge that some Sunni scholars of past were of the view that if Torah/Injeeel law has not been repealed then it still applies - however even they do not really give any examples .
Just shows again that God is Superior. We shouldn`t put our trust in nobody than Him.
Go to the Source go to God. We don?t need someone else to show us the way.Anyway. The Torah mentioned in Quran is the one present at Jesus time. This hasn?t, as far as I informed, been changed like the NT
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Peace The_Chimp
Yeah thats my point.
But you was the one saing so..Just shows again that God is Superior. We shouldn`t put our trust in nobody than Him.
Go to the Source go to God. We don?t need someone else to show us the way.Anyway. The Torah mentioned in Quran is the one present at Jesus time. This hasn?t, as far as I informed, been changed like the NT
But the verse is in historical sense . . . of course Muslims believe that both books were from Allah Almighty.
The Torah mentioned in Quran is the one present at Jesus time. This hasn?t, as far as I informed, been changed like the NT
Do you covet , that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?
We also know that some Jews took Ezra to be son of God - according to the Quran. Although this does not directly point to the fact that Torah was changed . . . but that Jews did deviate to that extent.
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Peace Jafar
Don?t really get you?
Are you among this choir or not.
If not Then why do you bring their views.It relates on what do you mean by "Islam", Islam as we know today is a name for TRADITION / RELIGION invented by a bunch people in middle east region around 1200 years ago.
While the word "islam" by itself has meanings (Peacefully accept God's will) thus it's an attitude and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.
Thus when you said "Islamic Prayer", you must make it very clear whether you're referring to a religion / tradition named Islam or attitude of islam?
It's actually much better to make it as verbose such as
"I think the so-called "Lords prayer" is in many way show the attitude of peacefully accepting God's will"
Then I will say YES I AGREE WITH YOU.
And that's also why Jesus was cited as among the best example of a muslim.
Although he is not a member of a religion named Islam or follow the tradition named Islam.As for me I am not an exclusive member of any religion / tradition.
In a sense that I CAN be a member of any religion / tradition.Anyway you know as well as I do, that there are not such autority here on earth to tell us what Islamic or not. My view is only my own, and I should only be judged by God.
Still looking for the possibillity that the word could have been changed )
Yes but people are still trying to claim such authority, that's why we have Imams, Clerics, Priest, Sheikh etc..
Salam / Peace
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- I think in the Theory God Could create something greater. But that would again be Him selves.
So again its a defenition of Him.
Correct, if there's two or more "unlimited" then there will not be "unlimited" anymore. The two things need to have a 'border' between them, which renders them 'limited'.
You should also ponder why such question only being asked by people with cultural background of viewing God as a Person / Human. (European + Middle East) And people who didn't view God as a person / human never bothered to ask such question.
Salam / Peace
- I think in the Theory God Could create something greater. But that would again be Him selves.
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Peace The_Chimp
But the verse is in historical sense . . . of course Muslims believe that both books were from Allah Almighty.
Its like we need to straiten something out.
If the Torah been autoricied, We shouldn?t questen it like you d0 ( You called it corrupt)
The Torah is historical in some way. Becaause these laws were given specific for the Jewish. In the case they been replaced. (what you also talked about) we can call them historical.
And also you can?t keep comparing these two books. Since due to Quran, one is ccorrupt dosn?t meen the otherone also is.
When Jesus mission ( among others) was to autorise The Torah. Then we cant neglect it, like you do.Do you covet , that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?
We also know that some Jews took Ezra to be son of God - according to the Quran. Although this does not directly point to the fact that Torah was changed . . . but that Jews did deviate to that extent.
You can?t blame God or The Torah that somebody disobey God. We also have this case today among readers of Quran.
PS I try to reply as sincerly as possible. Just seems that sometimes its hard to answer clearly to you claims.
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood you in anyway.
My only purpose(I think) is to try to go on the right path. And put my own believe to somekind of test.