Abba or Allah

Israfeel

PeaceIsrafeel
Of cause its possible due to nothing is impossible for God.

But anyway. I think the term "Father" is used in the meaning "Father of a nation."

The Mormons make their own conclusions. These have never been authorized.

Father of a nation is a term, and so is Mother of a nation. So we're back to square one.

You say that nothing is impossible for God. Based on this I have two questions

Is it possible for God to create another God who is superior and greater than Him? (God Forbid)
Is it possible for God to break his promise, lie, or deceive? (God Forbid)

NielsJacob

Peace Israfeel

Father of a nation is a term, and so is Mother of a nation. So we're back to square one.

No we are not. Mother have never been confirmed in HQ.

You say that nothing is impossible for God. Based on this I have two questions

Is it possible for God to create another God who is superior and greater than Him? (God Forbid)
Is it possible for God to break his promise, lie, or deceive? (God Forbid)

In the theory nothing is Impossible. So only God know.
Our own conclusions wouldn?t leed us anywhere.

But here are my own simple thoughts. Wich only should be seen as so

I think in the Theory God Could create something greater. But that would again be Him selves.
So again its a defenition of Him.

2.Offcouse God could lie . But when he said he woudln?t we must trust this (but in the theory this could also be a lie).

NielsJacob

Peace Israfeel
Here is one I thought long time about

Is it possible for God to create such big stone he couldn?t carry.

But I think we now really getting off-topic. Or??

Israfeel

Well you've already answered my questions. You said it is theoretically possible for God to create another God who is greater than Him, and you said it's theoretically possible for God to lie.

Therefore I say to you

For you your religion, and for me my religion.

I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship Who I worship.

NielsJacob

Salam Israfeel

I
do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship Who I worship.

Who?are you to tell?

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

Well you've already answered my questions. You said it is theoretically possible for God to create another God who is greater than Him, and you said it's theoretically possible for God to lie.

Therefore I say to you

For you your religion, and for me my religion.

I do not worship what you worship, nor do you worship Who I worship.

Those were loaded questions, and it seems that they were not intended as legitimate (and off topic) questions, but as traps. Answer your own questions if you are honest--then others can metaphorically throw rocks at you!

Do you dispute that Heavenly Father is a potentially beautiful name? It is a term that could not be applied to any other than ALLAH. If you don't like the term, don't use it.

Your opinions pertaining to the Deen are valued with the exact same weight given to any extra-Qur'anic hadith. You can keep your hadith and traditions, and continue to follow what you found your forebears doing. Good luck with that; enjoy this life! )

"Wait, for we are waiting." )

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

Abdul-Hadi

Greetings and Peace, all group

Peace Israfeel
Here is one I thought long time about

Is it possible for God to create such big stone he couldn?t carry.

But I think we now really getting off-topic. Or??

Oh, this one is easy; the Almighty simply moves all else of creation around the stone; the stone is moved without moving.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

NielsJacob

Peace Abdul-Hadi

Oh, this one is easy; the Almighty simply moves all else of creation around the stone; the stone is moved without moving.

I like the idea.
But are you sure that this mean that that stone has been moved/lifted?
Actually I think it havn?t been moved. But only the rest.
Or?

The_Chimp

Greetings and Peace, all group

Those were loaded questions, and it seems that they were not intended as legitimate (and off topic) questions, but as traps. Answer your own questions if you are honest--then others can metaphorically throw rocks at you!

Do you dispute that Heavenly Father is a potentially beautiful name? It is a term that could not be applied to any other than ALLAH. If you don't like the term, don't use it.

Your opinions pertaining to the Deen are valued with the exact same weight given to any extra-Qur'anic hadith. You can keep your hadith and traditions, and continue to follow what you found your forebears doing. Good luck with that; enjoy this life! )

"Wait, for we are waiting." )

ALLAH knows best.

peace

~Abdul-Hadi

In other words . . . the Bible which Quran openly calls as corrupt . . . that you would follow? Yet those are the exact same people who transmitted Quran and those who transmitted Hadith.

Do you dispute that Heavenly Father is a potentially beautiful name?

Yes. If it was that good . . . Quran would have used it. As there are many names already given for the Almighty . . . why do you need extra?

This is but another example . . . how quickly "Quran only" shun the Quran.

NielsJacob

Peace The _Chimp

Yes. If it was that good . . . Quran would have used it. As there are many names already given for the Almighty . . . why do you need extra?

Muhammed isn?t the only messenger. Isaiah also was one.

He use the word "Father".

For the conclusion leading us there. Please read my earlier posts to you

The_Chimp

Peace The _Chimp

Muhammen isn?t the only messenger. Isaiah also was one.

He use the word father.

For the conclusion leading us there. Please read my earlier posts to you

There is no Isaiah mentioned in the Quran - or even in Hadith attributed to the Prophet Muhammad .

NielsJacob

Peace The_Chimp

There is no Isaiah mentioned in the Quran - or even in Hadith attributed to the Prophet Muhammad .

But Isaiah is in the Torah.

And conserning Torah I quoted this passage earlier to you
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah

The_Chimp

Peace The_Chimp
But Isaiah is in the Torah.

And conserning Torah I quoted this passage earlier to you
546 And We sent in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, authenticating what was present with him of the Torah

Yes . . . but one cannot put much faith in the Torah . If you know a book is corrupt but do not know which bit . . . then . . .The only measure we actually have is the Quran.

Muslim sources actually do accept him . . . however I would take such extra-Quran material with a pinch of salt.

= = =

Another thing to keep in mind is that Quran does make Torah obsolete - the whole point of new revelations is to replace older ones.

NielsJacob

Peace The_Chimp

Yes . . . but one cannot put much faith in the Torah . If you know a book is corrupt but do not know which bit . . . then . . .The only measure we actually have is the Quran.

Muslim sources actually do accept him . . . however I would take such extra-Quran material with a pinch of salt.

= = =

Another thing to keep in mind is that Quran does make Torah obsolete - the whole point of new revelations is to replace older ones.

I agree that the New Testament is corrupted. But here we talking about the Torah.
When it`s said it authenticied, we shouldn?t be doubting Gods word.

You can?t just like that chose, what you like or not. And say one is more new and therefor better.
If there is any contradiction offcause we must take the newest. Due to we assume this is send to adjust the primer one.

But in this case it?s not the Question. Here the Torah on the contrary is confirmed.

Anyway, there are some doubt about which book are included in the Torah.
But we must assume its the ones present for Jesus as written in Holy Quran

The_Chimp

Peace The_Chimp

I agree that the New Testament is corrupted. But here we talking about the Torah.
When it`s said it authenticied, we shouldn?t be doubting Gods word.

You can?t just like that chose, what you like or not. And say one is more new and therefor better.
If there is any contradiction offcause we must take the newest. Due to we assume this is send to adjust the primer one.

But in this case it?s not the Question. Here the Torah on the contrary is confirmed.

Anyway, there are some doubt about which book are included in the Torah.
But we must assume its the ones present for Jesus as written in Holy Quran

Torah too is corrupt.

When its said it authenticied we shouldn?t be doubting Gods word.

Is it - and by whom?

You can?t just like that chose what you like or not. And say one is newer. If there is any contradiction offcause we must take the newest. Because we assume its send to adjust the primer one.
But in this case it?s not the posibility. Here the Torah is confirmed.

Quran is sufficient really. You can read Torah and NT as history . . . but that is about it. You might get a perspective or tow - but that is about it. What you cannot do is give the book similar status to the Quran.

NielsJacob

Peace The_Chimp

Torah too is corrupt.

Not according to HQ 5.46Quote

When its said it authenticied we shouldn?t be doubting Gods word.

Is it - and by whom?

I stated that many times. But here I try again 5.46

Quran is sufficient really. You can read Torah and NT as history . . . but that is about it. You might get a perspective or tow - but that is about it. What you cannot do is give the book similar status to the Quran.

I agree offcourse with you on your first point. Anyway its a question of believe.
But due to that, we can`t just look at The Torah as histories, when it according to the Quran (we see as sufficient) this book itself is confirmed as genuine and part of Gods messeage.

(Changed in the ending)

The_Chimp

And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.

Quran 546

This in no way talks about corruption of Torah!

But due to that, we can`t just look at The Torah as histories, when it according to the Quran (we see as sufficient) this book itself is sufficient

It is perfectly possible that some law which as revealed in Torah but has now been repealed. Hence - even if one accepts Torah is not corrupt . . . even then I one does not follow Torah.

Having said the above I do acknowledge that some Sunni scholars of past were of the view that if Torah/Injeeel law has not been repealed then it still applies - however even they do not really give any examples .

NielsJacob

Peace The_Chimp

And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.

Quran 546

This in no way talks about corruption of Torah!

Yeah thats my point.
But you was the one saing so..

It is perfectly possible that some law which as revealed in Torah but has now been repealed. Hence - even if one accepts Torah is not corrupt . . . even then I one does not follow Torah.

Having said the above I do acknowledge that some Sunni scholars of past were of the view that if Torah/Injeeel law has not been repealed then it still applies - however even they do not really give any examples .

Just shows again that God is Superior. We shouldn`t put our trust in nobody than Him.
Go to the Source go to God. We don?t need someone else to show us the way.

Anyway. The Torah mentioned in Quran is the one present at Jesus time. This hasn?t, as far as I informed, been changed like the NT

The_Chimp

Peace The_Chimp
Yeah thats my point.
But you was the one saing so..

Just shows again that God is Superior. We shouldn`t put our trust in nobody than Him.
Go to the Source go to God. We don?t need someone else to show us the way.

Anyway. The Torah mentioned in Quran is the one present at Jesus time. This hasn?t, as far as I informed, been changed like the NT

But the verse is in historical sense . . . of course Muslims believe that both books were from Allah Almighty.

The Torah mentioned in Quran is the one present at Jesus time. This hasn?t, as far as I informed, been changed like the NT

Do you covet , that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?

We also know that some Jews took Ezra to be son of God - according to the Quran. Although this does not directly point to the fact that Torah was changed . . . but that Jews did deviate to that extent.

Jafar

Peace Jafar

Don?t really get you?
Are you among this choir or not.
If not Then why do you bring their views.

It relates on what do you mean by "Islam", Islam as we know today is a name for TRADITION / RELIGION invented by a bunch people in middle east region around 1200 years ago.

While the word "islam" by itself has meanings (Peacefully accept God's will) thus it's an attitude and it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGION.

Thus when you said "Islamic Prayer", you must make it very clear whether you're referring to a religion / tradition named Islam or attitude of islam?

It's actually much better to make it as verbose such as

"I think the so-called "Lords prayer" is in many way show the attitude of peacefully accepting God's will"
Then I will say YES I AGREE WITH YOU.
And that's also why Jesus was cited as among the best example of a muslim.
Although he is not a member of a religion named Islam or follow the tradition named Islam.

As for me I am not an exclusive member of any religion / tradition.
In a sense that I CAN be a member of any religion / tradition.

Anyway you know as well as I do, that there are not such autority here on earth to tell us what Islamic or not. My view is only my own, and I should only be judged by God.

Still looking for the possibillity that the word could have been changed )

Yes but people are still trying to claim such authority, that's why we have Imams, Clerics, Priest, Sheikh etc..

Salam / Peace