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  4. I am God / Allah

I am God / Allah

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • T Offline
    T Offline
    The_Chimp
    wrote on last edited by
    #135

    Read again, and spell out what is my conclusion of becoming God?

    Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. (24.35)

    and why do angels prostrate to Adam?

    Isn't it supposed to associate Adam with Allah?

    No it isn't/wasn't. Adam is creation of Allah.

    "O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -"

    " who made for you the earth a bed and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know ."

    It was about obedience and the difference between Angels - how they obey. And Satan - how he went astray - it was lesson for Adam and for the rest of mankind.

    Read

    "And , when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."

    "And He taught Adam the names - all of them. Then He showed them to the angels and said, "Inform Me of the names of these, if you are truthful.""

    "They said, "Exalted are You; we have no knowledge except what You have taught us. Indeed, it is You who is the Knowing, the Wise.""

    "He said, "O Adam, inform them of their names." And when he had informed them of their names, He said, "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen of the heavens and the earth? And I know what you reveal and what you have concealed.""

    "And when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers."

    Now read this

    "And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers.""

    "But Satan caused them to slip out of it and removed them from that in which they had been. And We said, "Go down, , as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time.""

    "Then Adam received from his Lord words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful."

    See what this is about? The it the the difference between Satan and Adam. He digressed and went on to mislead other. Prophet Adam slipped - he became repentant.

    And please notice - Angels and not other humans were asked to bow to Adam.


    Huh? You didn't notice that the statement is in wrong paragraph?

    That it belongs to the previous paragraph?

    You are the expert right?

    There it is again! Unnecessary attitude from you!

    I asked you to clarify and you are plain rude. Why?

    Now you have rendered this meaningless - rather than explaining this - you went with the attitude!

    Read again, I'm not going to repeat for the third time.

    I have read and answered. I take it you are resorting to playing silly games . . .as you cannot answer.

    Saying read again does NOT help you out. What you have written earlier does not explain it either - as WHAT you have written before is the thing being questioned. So referring back to that is not helpful.

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    • T Offline
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      The_Chimp
      wrote on last edited by
      #136

      That's how a sectarian defined people . . .

      He has plainly clarified the same way of life which He enjoined on Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus.
      Perform the prescribed way of life and no sectarianism
      (42.13)

      What are you harping about now?

      Also - here is the full verse

      "He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, , and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back ."

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      • M Offline
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        muslims
        wrote on last edited by
        #137

        So . . . you read and understand on the issue of what does it really mean of becoming God?

        No it isn't/wasn't. Adam is creation of Allah.

        The facts are they prostrate to other than Allah. . .

        and Iblees prostrate only to Allah (Allah Alone? By God? Bigot?)

        Angels prostrate to Allah and Adam

        and what is Allah commands ? To prostrate to everything and creating balance?

        God commands justice
        CREATING BALANCE in the society
        benefiting humanity <- about religion?
        kindness to His creation <- all living creatures, regardless of religions etc
        and giving to relatives
        (16.90)

        Do you prostrate or opposing justice based which group you belongs today?

        What are you harping about now?

        Also - here is the full verse

        "He has ordained for you of religion what He enjoined upon Noah and that which We have revealed to you, , and what We enjoined upon Abraham and Moses and Jesus - to establish the religion and not be divided therein. Difficult for those who associate others with Allah is that to which you invite them. Allah chooses for Himself whom He wills and guides to Himself whoever turns back ."

        Islam (peacemaking) is attitude, and attitude does not need religion . . .

        It is in every human beings etc . . regardless of religions etc

        So as Allah , does not need religion . . .

        Only human beings need religions (faulty of generalization, sectarianism, opposing justice, corruptors, idolaters) . .

        to make sure humanity is divided so that they can control the masses and make money

        and those who obey them . . . are the associators, idolaters, who equate others with Allah

        They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah (9.31)

        Say, "Bring forward your witnesses
        who will testify <- including inconsistent hadith
        that Allah has prohibited this."

        And if they testify

        DO NOT testify with them

        And DO NOT follow the desires
        of those who deny Our verses
        and those who do not believe in the Hereafter
        while they equate with their Lord

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        • M Offline
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          muslims
          wrote on last edited by
          #138

          Whether need to believe Allah to be a Muslim?
          http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.0

          From the above premises (4914-17)... I believe, a Muslim... does not necessarily means be the Muslims we know today, and provided always .. they don't believe in identifiable God, ie. idolaters and an upright man.

          comparison

          Who is Muhammad?

          I believe he is the most righteous person ever lived . . . and a True Believer

          And indeed, you (Muhammad)
          are of a great moral character
          (684)

          But and even if he believe in Allah . . .

          . . . recite shahada perfectfully
          . . . knows and speaks well in arabic
          . . . perform salah
          . . . pray in mosque
          . . . pray every night to Allah
          . . . perform hajj
          . . . fasting for his entire life
          . . . dzikr.. and never say bad things about people
          . . . pay zakat and sadaqah all his property in the cause of Allah
          . . . go to jihad and sacrifice himself to Allah
          . . . study carefully all the revelations...
          . . . and... bla... bla... bla...
          . . . you name it, as one of the most righteous person ever lived...

          He will not be a Muslim if disobey one "simple prohibition" not to eat that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned

          And DO NOT eat

          of that on which Allah's name has not been mentioned
          and that is most surely a transgression
          and most surely the Shaitans suggest to their friends
          that they should contend with you

          and if you obey them

          you (Muhammad) shall most surely be polytheists <- ie. not a Muslim
          (6121)

          Because Allah says "DO NOT" ! !

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          • T Offline
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            The_Chimp
            wrote on last edited by
            #139

            So . . . you read and understand on the issue of what does it really mean of becoming God?

            Your version - yes. But I disagree. Man is not God. Now - what you describe we should be doing - that is fine. But saying man is god - or become god - is completely wrong.

            Almighty has already given that. Man is simply his vicegerent.

            So how do you get to man becoming god from the Quran?

            The facts are they prostrate to other than Allah. . .

            and Iblees only prostrate to Allah

            Angels prostrate to Allah and Adam

            Yes. In that instance - direct command of the Almighty. There is no such command anymore towards humans.

            and what is Allah commands ? To prostrate to everything and creating balance?

            God commands justice
            CREATING BALANCE in the society
            benefiting humanity <- about religion?
            kindness to His creation <- all living creatures, regardless of religions etc
            and giving to relatives
            (16.90)

            Do you prostrate or opposing justice based which group you belongs today?

            Let us look at what the verse 1690 says

            "Indeed, Allah orders justice and good conduct and giving to relatives and forbids immorality and bad conduct and oppression. He admonishes you that perhaps you will be reminded."

            There is not even a hint of Sajdah here.

            Islam is attitude, and attitude does not need religion . . .

            Source? Base of saying this?

            So as Allah , does not need religion . . .

            Of course not - we the humans need it.

            It is a pity you have not answered any further. Okay - we will park it there for now.

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            • T Offline
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              The_Chimp
              wrote on last edited by
              #140

              Whether need to believe Allah to be a Muslim?
              http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606111.0

              comparison

              offtopic

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              • M Offline
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                muslims
                wrote on last edited by
                #141

                Nope . . I'm proving to you this fake religion of Islam that value sectarianism and oppressing justice

                They are, so as other oppressors of justice . . the criminals

                Islam is about serve others, regardless of religions etc

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                • M Offline
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                  muslims
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #142

                  Your version - yes. But I disagree. Man is not God. Now - what you describe we should be doing - that is fine. But saying man is god - or become god - is completely wrong.

                  Then you did not read or did understand the conclusion .

                  http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346140#msg346140
                  http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346146#msg346146

                  and becoming God (ie. creating God in ourselves)

                  One who reach "0" can never become God . . because they are "0"

                  Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4) <- no heart, all is given to Allah

                  How can "0" becoming something ?

                  What do people see, hear and feel when they become "0" ?

                  however . . they are God because they are "0" . . because they witness Allah in their own way

                  This is how we become God . . by becoming "0" and servant of Allah . .

                  1 (God) + 0 (human) = 1 (God) = Absolute Obedience = Creating God in ourselves

                  They created God in themselves, because 1 + 0 = 1

                  ie. Allah will protect them wherever they are, and they do have the powers . .

                  This is Allah's promise and Allah never lies.

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                  • T Offline
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                    The_Chimp
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #143

                    Nope . . I'm proving to you this fake religion of Islam that value sectarianism and oppressing justice

                    Islam is about serve others, regardless of religions etc

                    Serve others - up to a point as fellow humans. Else - Quran has made the difference between believers and non-believers. And, unfortunately, Sects seems to be an unavoidable evil.

                    Look at what you say . . . as soon as you start calling others fake and yourself true . . . well - that is how it all starts!

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                    • M Offline
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                      muslims
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #144

                      You mean the corrupted translation/understanding of Believer?

                      and the corrupted translation/understanding of Muslim?

                      http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346154#msg346154

                      and I am being a sectarian, according to the Quran . .

                      ie. based on two categories of people, justice vs. injustice, regardless of religions etc.

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                      • M Offline
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                        muslims
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #145

                        The fallacy of faulty generalization (religion)

                        A faulty generalization is a conclusion about all or many instances of a phenomenon that has been reached on the basis of just one or just a few instances of (injustice) that phenomenon. It is an example of jumping to conclusions. For example, we may generalize about all people, or all members of a group, based on what we know about just one or just a few people.

                        http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization

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                        • T Offline
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                          The_Chimp
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #146

                          Then you did not read or did understand the conclusion .

                          I read. I understood. I asked you questions over it - and you did not answer them. So this accusation is disingenuous and hollow.

                          I have already pointed the problem - you did not answer. So why are you point to this again? If you have not answered the questions?

                          There is no Allah alone because Allah is "everything" !

                          How can someone be Allah Alone when Allah is "ONE" ? (everything)

                          I asked after this. How did you jump from Allah is one to everything - and declaring we are part of Everything. No we are not. We are nothing.

                          or maybe 0 is 1 . . 1 + 0 = 1 = God)

                          Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior (334) = God ?

                          I said this does not make sense at all - no answer. I asked you to explain more. Not much of an answer.

                          What really matter Allah is everything . . equally, Allah Alone should mean to serve everything . .

                          "everything" is "Allah Alone"

                          I have asked after this. Not much of an answer. Now - I have already said. Allah is everything. That is fine. "We" his creation are NOT in this everything.


                          and becoming God (ie. creating God in ourselves)

                          This is unique to you. We cannot "create" God in our self. Impossible. If find the notion ridiculous. What does it mean? How did you get there? It is not in the Quran. Else - where?


                          One who reach "0" can never become God . . because they are "0"

                          This doesn't mean anything.

                          Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4) <- no heart, all is given to Allah

                          All what? The heart?

                          How can "0" becoming something ?

                          It cannot.


                          This is how we become God . . by becoming "0" and servant of Allah . .

                          1 (God) + 0 (human) = 1 (God) = Absolute Obedience = Creating God in ourselves

                          Sorry - but I find that to be nonsense which you made up. It has no validity from the Quran - no basis whatsoever. Please - stop repeating your self and answer . . . how does this relate to Quran?

                          You made this up!

                          Obeying God does not mean - you create God in yourself.


                          They created God in themselves, because 1 + 0 = 1

                          ie. Allah will protect them wherever they are, and they do have the powers . .

                          This is Allah's promise and Allah never lies.

                          Where is Allah saying - create God within yourself? Where?

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                          • T Offline
                            T Offline
                            The_Chimp
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #147

                            You mean the corrupted translation of Believer?

                            and the corrupted translation of Muslim?

                            http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606172.msg346154#msg346154

                            and I am being a sectarian, according to the Quran . .

                            ie. based on two categories of people, justice vs. injustice, regardless of religions etc.

                            So - for yourself you have find a convenient excuse! How nice. . . Finally, others are corrupted and you are not!

                            How nice for you!

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                              The_Chimp
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #148

                              The fallacy of faulty generalization (religion)

                              A faulty generalization is a conclusion about all or many instances of a phenomenon that has been reached on the basis of just one or just a few instances of (injustice) that phenomenon. It is an example of jumping to conclusions. For example, we may generalize about all people, or all members of a group, based on what we know about just one or just a few people.

                              http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization

                              Again this is make-belief and load of nonsense. Religion is not about "Faulty Generalization" as you bizarrely claim. Else, prove it! Do not just claim it. . . prove it.

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                                muslims
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #149

                                Allah is one to everything - and declaring we are part of Everything. No we are not. We are nothing.

                                We are nothing, that's why we are One

                                1 + 0 = 1

                                and it is One who answers to peoples' prayers etc . . ie. our duty, the Khalifa (law of causation)

                                e.g some illustration and of course, far from being accurate . . just for some thoughts

                                sun and the sunlight . .
                                a likeness of Allah (sun, 1)
                                and the sunlight (creation, 0) . .

                                the sunlight never exists (0) . . even if you can feel the heat and believe it exists
                                however, only the sun exists (1)

                                prove http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y

                                Where is Allah saying - create God within yourself? Where?

                                Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4)

                                Only one heart, and it is for Allah.

                                1 + 0 = 1

                                Say, "Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds. (6.162(

                                1 + 0 = 1

                                http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605837.msg338423#msg338423
                                http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605837.msg338372#msg338372

                                and

                                I have explained, and you cannot understand . . and you will not understand, maybe forever.

                                or vice versa, I cannot understand your belief . . forever.

                                Either way, there is no one can make any of us to understand what we are not supposed to understand.

                                Whatever it is , those who submit and communicate with the Sunnatullah will understand

                                And you cannot guide the blind away from their error
                                You will only make hear those who believe in Our verses
                                so they are Muslims
                                (6.162)

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                                  muslims
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #150

                                  Else, prove it! Do not just claim it. . . prove it.

                                  Can you say that all practices in Buddhism is injustice?

                                  Can you say that all practices in Christianity is injustice?

                                  Can you say that all practices in Judaism is injustice?

                                  Can you say that all practices in Hinduism is injustice?

                                  Can you say that all practices in all religions are injustice?

                                  Only the Religion of Islam is justice to the humanity

                                  and . . .

                                  Can you say that Allah is opposing justice?

                                  This is my prove . . that Religion of Islam (sectarianism) is the opposite of the Deen of Islam (peacemaking).

                                  More prove? . . look at Islam itself . . . how many denominations?

                                  By God

                                  Bigot

                                  Bigotism

                                  Sectarianism

                                  And whoever seeks a "dnan" (&#1575 other than Islam <- ie. not religion of Islam, but Deen of Islam
                                  it will NEVER be accepted of him
                                  and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
                                  (385)

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                                    muslims
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #151

                                    And We have revealed to you
                                    the Book in truth
                                    confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture
                                    and as a criterion over it
                                    So judge between them by what Allah has revealed
                                    and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth

                                    To each of you
                                    We prescribed a law and a method

                                    Had Allah willed
                                    He would have made you one nation

                                    but to test you in what He has given you

                                    so race to good
                                    To Allah is your return all together
                                    and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ
                                    (5.4

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                                      The_Chimp
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #152

                                      We are nothing, that's why we are One

                                      By what kind of logic did you get from "nothing" to One? Nothing here means nothing . . . in the sense that Almighty is Eternal. We are not. He is unique - uncreated - and one. We are not.

                                      So we are not one.

                                      e.g some illustration and of course, far from being accurate . . just for some thoughts

                                      sun and the sunlight . .
                                      a likeness of Allah (sun, 1)
                                      and the sunlight (creation, 0) . .

                                      the sunlight never exists (0) . . even if you can feel the heat and believe it exists
                                      however, only the sun exists (1)

                                      prove http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqnEGu8VF8Y

                                      So you are basing this on a video? Which you clearly do not understand. I am asking about the Quran and you present this?

                                      Of course Sunlight exists if the Sun exists - it is "Sunlight is a portion of the electromagnetic radiation given off by the Sun, in particular infrared, visible, and ultraviolet light."

                                      We already know that Sunlight and Sun exist. Wrong analogy, pal.

                                      Allah has not made for a man two hearts in his interior. (33.4)

                                      Only one heart, and it is for Allah.

                                      Saying this does mean you create "God" within you. I think you best layoff YouTube videos that you clearly do not understand. Helpful advice.
                                      That is NOT what the verse is saying. One can have love of the Almighty and not create God within it. The notion is ridiculous.


                                      I have explained, and you cannot understand . . and you will not understand, maybe forever.

                                      Yeah that is true. I think you have been listening to something and have created your own understanding. I doubt if anyone will understand you . . .


                                      Either way, there is no one can make any of us to understand what we are not supposed to understand.

                                      Whatever it is , those who submit and communicate with the Sunnatullah will understand

                                      And you cannot guide the blind away from their error
                                      You will only make hear those who believe in Our verses
                                      so they are Muslims
                                      (6.162)

                                      Oh - the ugly sectarianism raising its head up again . . . of course it always others that are misled . . . an not you!

                                      sun


                                      Flower . . . I think you live in a world all on your own . . . a galaxy far, far away.

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                                        The_Chimp
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #153

                                        Can you say that all practices in Buddhism is injustice?

                                        Can you say that all practices in Christianity is injustice?

                                        Can you say that all practices in Judaism is injustice?

                                        Can you say that all practices in Hinduism is injustice?

                                        Can you say that all practices in all religions are injustice?

                                        Only the Religion of Islam is justice to the humanity

                                        and . . .

                                        Can you say that Allah is opposing justice?

                                        This is my prove . . that Religion of Islam (sectarianism) is the opposite of Deen of Islam (peacemaking).

                                        More prove? . . look at Islam itself . . . how many denominations?

                                        By God

                                        Bigot

                                        Bigotism

                                        Sectarianism

                                        Sorry - but how is this proving that "religion" is "generalization"? This is contrary to the Quran

                                        "Indeed, the religion in the sight of Allah is Islam. And those who were given the Scripture did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. And whoever disbelieves in the verses of Allah , then indeed, Allah is swift in account."

                                        As to your above list - all of the above ARE injustice - in the sense that if they do not believe in One God.

                                        This is my prove . . that Religion of Islam (sectarianism) is the opposite of Deen of Islam (peacemaking).

                                        More prove? . . look at Islam itself . . . how many denominations?

                                        So you have trouble between "religion" and "sect". Look at your own quote - it is confused. On one hand you say Islam is sect then you say it is religion.

                                        The trouble is - you do not really know what logic is and how it works. The fallacy generalization is something completely different.

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                                          The_Chimp
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #154

                                          And We have revealed to you
                                          the Book in truth
                                          confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture
                                          and as a criterion over it
                                          So judge between them by what Allah has revealed
                                          and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth

                                          To each of you
                                          We prescribed a law and a method

                                          Had Allah willed
                                          He would have made you one nation

                                          but to test you in what He has given you

                                          so race to good
                                          To Allah is your return all together
                                          and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ
                                          (5.4

                                          So what are you saying by this? That "Islam" is not the only religion? And that Christianity and others today have validity? Then that is incorrect.

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