:: Bani or Walad - What does they mean? ::

The_Chimp

Both of two words is same, just difference in writing style

Actually the red is not ya' but alif maqshurah.

Peace

Both words are not same - one has root Ba Na Na and the other Ba Na Ya - check dictionary Hans Wehr.

If you do not know something then please do not bother replying with incorrect answers.

The_Chimp

I think you did not read opening post of this thread.
Anyways, how would you understand in 546 and 6611.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

As long as you know that both are different words . . .

In verse 546 Ibn = son. It is a noun.

In verse 6611 the word is "Bin" Imperative form of the verb Ba Na Na - Build.

unknownuser

Both words are not same - one has root Ba Na Na and the other Ba Na Ya - check dictionary Hans Wehr.

As I know Sunni didn't used Hans Wehr, since it's modern Arabic dictionary.

Build/ came from ba' and nun and the red is ya' withouth two dots called alif maqsuurat ( &#1577.

there is none in Arabic have roots with same huruf like ba-na-na, dal-lam-lam.
The nun sounds double because diacritic named shaddah.

The_Chimp

As I know Sunni didn't used Hans Wehr, since it's modern Arabic dictionary.

Build/ came from ba' and nun and the red is ya' withouth two dots called alif maqsuurat ( ).

there is none in Arabic have roots with same huruf like ba-na-na, dal-lam-lam.
The nun sounds double because diacritic named shaddah.

Hans Wher contains Classical Arabic - its a mid level concise dictionary.

there is none in Arabic have roots with same huruf like ba-na-na, dal-lam-lam.
The nun sounds double because diacritic named shaddah.

Incorrect. There are plent of such root. Ha Qa Qa Haqq.

Qa Sa Sa Qass - to cut.

Ka Na Na To hide.

mmkhan

Salaam mmkhan

( &#1577

Again, thank you for your post and your remark
it is, i think, much more important than you think.

OM (and derivates OMMI, OMMA,OMMATON, AMATON) is to compare to WALIDA
AB, ABOU is to compare to WALID.
IBN is to compare to WALAD and ADYIA (&#1614

we have to look again here
3340 Mohammed is not ABA of any of your men, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets. And God is fully aware of all things.

the opposition of ABA of any and Messenger of god is strange.

We have also to look again to Zayd case.
i ask allah to forgive me to have looked in hearsays. But there it is said that Zayd was only 10 years younger than Muhammad. It is also said that it was Khadija who gave "Zayd" as gift as slave the day of marriage. That mean, Zyad began to be slave of Muhammad when Zayd was 15 and Muhammad 25 (15 years before revelation according to hearsays).
Zayd was known as "zayd Ibn Muhammad".
What mean then Adya ? is that mean adopted son or simply someone who take the name of ?

335 Name them (adya) by their Aba. That is more just with God.....
Problem how to name boys from unknown father ?

and how to understand this
3337 ...... to establish that there is no wrongdoing for the believers in marrying the wives ADYA if their relationship is ended. And the command of God is always done.

of course we have to understand also why bani is used with Bani Israel and Bani Adam and not to BANI Ibrahim or Bani Ismail...

Dear mmkhan, do you mind in what huge problem you put islam in ?

Thank you again.

Peace

Salaam brother noshirk,

I am sorry to say that you did not understand your post et all.
And the references you quoted which I don't believe in, disturbs me when I tried to understand your post.
Can you please rephrase your sentences and try to be specific to the word of Allah please? Thanks.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

mmkhan

As long as you know that both are different words . . .

In verse 546 Ibn = son. It is a noun.

In verse 6611 the word is "Bin" Imperative form of the verb Ba Na Na - Build.

I have a problem with red and blue highlighted parts above.
Red Why should I ignore the 'alif' when Allah as added it on purpose?
Blue If it is from the root Ba Noon Noon, then there must be a shadda on noon as you suggested in other reply of yours.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

The_Chimp

I have a problem with red and blue highlighted parts above.
Red Why should I ignore the 'alif' when Allah as added it on purpose?
Blue If it is from the root Ba Noon Noon, then there must be a shadda on noon as you suggested in other reply of yours.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Red Why should I ignore the 'alif' when Allah as added it on purpose?

Pronunciation - that is why. Hamza Wasli and Qataee. But in writing they are always written.

Blue If it is from the root Ba Noon Noon, then there must be a shadda on noon as you suggested in other reply of yours.

Yes that is correct. However - Arabic does not have roots that are composed of two letters . The minimum is three.

There many verbs in this category - There are known as Mudaaf - Doubled Verbs

http//arabic.desert-sky.net/g_conj.html

mmkhan

Pronunciation - that is why. Hamza Wasli and Qataee. But in writing they are always written.

Pronunciation? We are talking about the TEXT not about its recitation.
Every letter and dialectic mark is written on purpose by Allah to guide us to the correct path.

Yes that is correct. However - Arabic does not have roots that are composed of two letters . The minimum is three.

There many verbs in this category - There are known as Mudaaf - Doubled Verbs

http//arabic.desert-sky.net/g_conj.html

But we don't have any example from text of alQuraan. Do we?
As it claims to have all examples 1789.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

The_Chimp

Pronunciation? We are talking about the TEXT not about its recitation.
Every letter and dialectic mark is written on purpose by Allah to guide us to the correct path.
But we don't have any example from text of alQuraan. Do we?
As it claims to have all examples 1789.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Dialectic marks were added for the benefit of the reading and they are not really part of the original conveyed text as such.

Further than this it depends on your knowledge of Arabic - but I will hint at it.

Quran itself writes the word "Ism" with and without alif.

But we don't have any example from text of alQuraan. Do we?
As it claims to have all examples 1789.

It is not clear what you are referring to here. We don;t have example of what from the Quran?

mmkhan

Dialectic marks were added for the benefit of the reading and they are not really part of the original conveyed text as such.

Further than this it depends on your knowledge of Arabic - but I will hint at it.

Quran itself writes the word "Ism" with and without alif.

Wow! I am surprised.
Please let me know, do you believe that alQuraan is the word of Allah and it is sent by Allah?
If yes, then please answer me how Allah allows humans to insert something in His Book of guidance for the mankind?

It is not clear what you are referring to here. We don;t have example of what from the Quran?

You wrote something about mudhaaf , I need an example from alQuraan for the same.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

The_Chimp

Wow! I am surprised.

Surprised over what?

Please let me know, do you believe that alQuraan is the word of Allah and it is sent by Allah?

I take it this is merely a rhetorical question.

If yes, then please answer me how Allah allows humans to insert something in His Book of guidance for the mankind?

What do you mean hoe Allah allows? There isn't really something that significant inserted - other than marks to help pronunciation for non-Arabs.

You wrote something about mudhaaf , I need an example from alQuraan for the same.

The word Haqq - its root is Ha Qa Qa.

mmkhan

Surprised over what?

I take it this is merely a rhetorical question.

Sorry, but this is not the answer for my question.

What do you mean hoe Allah allows? There isn't really something that significant inserted - other than marks to help pronunciation for non-Arabs.

I strongly believe that if anything even a single mark is added to the text of alQuraan and if it remain for years, than that book is no more considered as the book of Allah. As human addition are there along with the text of Allah in it.

The word Haqq - its root is Ha Qa Qa.

Thanks for the aayat. Yes, I agree about the root.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

The_Chimp

I strongly believe that if anything even a single mark is added to the text of alQuraan and if it remain for years, than that book is no more considered as the book of Allah. As human addition are there along with the text of Allah in it.

So how do you know what is and isn't book of Allah?

mmkhan

So how do you know what is and isn't book of Allah?

As the way I study alQuraan, it confirms me that each and every letter and marks is from Allah in alQuraan. It is highly impossible for humans to write or add something so perfectly and precisely.

If you go through some of my threads inshaAllah it explains it much.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Man_of_Faith

Peace Mr Chimp,

We have some book we call Qur'an in Arabic for some reason which we all know about. God's Message is within.

I ain't complicating my religion, but you can do it if you'd like.

The_Chimp

As the way I study alQuraan, it confirms me that each and every letter and marks is from Allah in alQuraan. It is highly impossible for humans to write or add something so perfectly and precisely.

If you go through some of my threads inshaAllah it explains it much.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

Sorry - but not quite buying it. Almighty does not go around handing out personal interpretations by inspiration. Yes, that does happen - but people tend to keep that quiet.

The only valid interpretations are achieved by linguistic perspective and reasoning.

The_Chimp

Peace Mr Chimp,

We have some book we call Qur'an in Arabic for some reason which we all know about. God's Message is within.

I ain't complicating my religion, but you can do it if you'd like.

We've bee through this - several times. And you came out wanting. Here

"...we call Qur'an in Arabic..."

Concentrate that for a minute . . . who between us two do you reckon is stronger? Or at least makes the stronger claims?

As to messages

There is that thread about Alcohol . . . a guy "Abdul-Hadi" desperately tried to justify alcohol to an extent . . . in the end he left it by making unwarranted personal attack - he got personal.

Repeatedly on this forum - the "message" people try to find is aligning Quran and derived morality with Western Enlightenment values.

unknownuser

Incorrect. There are plent of such root. Ha Qa Qa Haqq.

Qa Sa Sa Qass - to cut.

Ka Na Na To hide.

I already said to you before, it's about shaddah.

Haqqa
Bunna

Sound double because diacritic shaddah and both two words formed by two alphabets.

Another proof
{}

This is 730 taken from Codex Sana'a and notice the red (haqqa), only contains two huruf and free from diacritic.

The original one is http//postimg.org/image/6nk5gaxfx/ (if you want little bit confused).

Roots classification formed long time after revelation of the Quran, so don't ever used too much modern term to understand Quran.

Don't dispute this little issue anymore. Peace

The_Chimp

I already said to you before, it's about shaddah.

Haqqa
Bunna

Sound double because diacritic shaddah and both two words formed by two alphabets.

Another proof
{}

This is 730 taken from Codex Sana'a and notice the red (haqqa), only contains two huruf and free from diacritic.

The original one is http//postimg.org/image/6nk5gaxfx/ (if you want little bit confused).

Don't dispute this little issue anymore. Peace

You don't know what you are talking about. I generally tend to skip over what you write.

I already said to you before, it's about shaddah.

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about . . . else what does the above mean? What is it about the Shaddah?

Foe example - the word Haq is made of Ha Qa Qa and when this verbs is transposed into other verb from this becomes clear. For example in form 2 - the derived "verbal noun" is Tahqeeq - just like any other triliteral root.

Look at your English - your sentences barely make sense.
So what is level of you Arabic? Where have you studied?

All Arabic words originate from at least a triliteral root. Try looking this up - it is real basics.

Don't dispute this little issue anymore. Peace

The only one "disputing" is you.

unknownuser

All Arabic words originate from at least a triliteral root. Try looking this up - it is real basics.

You're victim of diacritic.

Modern root classification is based on "pronouncation" like mmkhan said and mostly used for Arabic learning for non-Arabic speaker.
It has nothing to do with literal text at all.
Even diacritics system was formed after the Phrophet's dies.

The word even a child knew if this word contains two alphabets.

Like I said before don't use too much modern terms to understand Quran since it's in Classical format.