What is Islam?

muslims

Way of life is hablum minannas, it's about how we lived in society (horizontal)
While religion is hablum minallah, its about how we worshipp the GOD (vertical).

That could also be true, but what is the meaning of "religion" + "way of life" ?
Could it mean "religion" or "way of life" ?
How can "religion" (sectarianism) and "way of life" (nonsectarianism) mixed together ?

. . .

Secondly, I believe you are making your own interpretation of the "ad-deen"
Try search the Quran for that word and it is always understood as "religion"

If it is a "religion", then what difference does it makes with other religions?
For example, how can it fit with this verse?

For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." (1096)

The Hinduist or others can easily say, sure "For you is your religion, and for me is my religion"
See? It is meaningless. . .

. . .

Thirdly, I believe the definition have been corrupted since there are at least four words with different "root words" have been categorized as "religion"

. . . so many verses (&#1616
. . . madhab (&#1576 . . . belief, religion, hold a belief, ideology, trend, manner
. . . verse 2120, 130 dan 135 (&#1614. . . religion, to dictate, embrace a religion, creed/faith...
. . . verse 2.138 (&#1614. . . code of law, religion

For example

http//i58.tinypic.com/sov1a9.gif

My point is, I believe this should not happen and the meaning should not share the same "root words" since Allah said

an Arabic Qur'an, without any deviance that they might become righteous.
39.28

I believe this is the loophole and the meanings of the Quran have been corrupted
"The word "religion" share many root words and thus, the Arabic meanings can be deviated".

and contradictorily . . .

The Quran has described Islam as Ad-Din, which is generally translated as religion. However, in the light of the above meanings, it should be clear that this is not only incorrect, but distorts and negates the very meaning of din. Islam is not a religion (madhab), and it has never been described as one in the Quran.; <a href="http//www.tolueislam.org/Parwez/ICR/ICR.htm">Islam A Challenge to Religion</a>

and . . .

Dn as Used in Islam

It has been said that the word Dn appears in as many as 79 verses in the Qur'an, but because there is no exact English translation of the term its precise definition has been the subject of some misunderstanding and disagreement. For instance, the term is often translated in parts of the Qur'an as "religion". However, in the Qur'an itself, the act of submission to God is always referred to as Dn, rather than as Madhhab (&#1576, which is the Arabic word for "religion".

Wikipedia

. . .

I already explain to you.
OK which part you don't understand??

I ask you, which part you don't understand?

My point is. . .

We are the descendants of Adam
Regardless of whether we are labelled as Muslims, Hinduists, Buddhists, Christians etc . . .

and the Quran says . . .

And when your Lord
took from the children of Adam
from their loins
their descendants

and made them testify of themselves
, "Am I not your Lord?"
They said, "Yes, we have testified."

lest you should say on the day of Resurrection
"Indeed, we were of this unaware"
(7172)

David_Saidi

How can "religion" (sectarianism) and "way of life" (nonsectarianism) mixed together ?

Since Quran is the book of Theology, so main subjects spoken on it is about religious system.

2208
"Enter to Islam completely!!" (enter a madzhab)

385 And whoever follows other than Al Islami dynan ( &#1575, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter he is of the losers. (follow another madzhab will not get the salvation)

This verses is enough to prove if Islam according to Quranic cotext mostly refer to creed.

Proof 1) Give the rules for rites - Kitaban mawqutan/scheduled times for salat (4103)

Fasting rules (2184-5)
etc
While "way of life", we can practice somethings as long as not for religious purpose

Forbids to embrance other teaching, hadiths beside the Quran (7750) (talking about theolgy/informal system)

While in "way of life" concept, we're allowed to adopted hadith as long as not for theological purose
(ex math book) (talking about our daily activities/formal system)

This is why I define Islam in the Quran as a theology, creed.

For you is your religion, and for me is my religion." (1096)

This is why Islam in the Quran defined as a creed.
Ex Me (Buddhist) and you (moslem) study in SMK Damansara Jaya.
Formality we're same, we both students of SMK Damansara Jaya and this how we involved in "assimilation"
But in term of religion we're different (theology/salvation)

I ask you, which part you don't understand?

My point is. . .

I hope we're not stuck in this issue for long times.It looks like you didn't read my explanation.
Many words in the Quran has alternative meanings and shouldn't always translated too literally.

Example - Ayat literally means sign but in Quran it means verse.

Nisaa literally means women, but in Quran it means wives

Son of God, descendant of God.
Now I ask you, what is the proof if you're descendant of Adam?? (Since you're a Malay or Tamil maybe)

I'm tired to re-explain, but you may re-read Quran again for knowing more.

muslims

How can "religion" (sectarianism) and "way of life" (nonsectarianism) mixed together ?

Since Quran is the book of Theology, so main subjects spoken on it is about religious system.

2208
"Enter to Islam completely!!" (enter a madzhab)

Then it is simple, the tail of an elephant is not an elephant..

Therefore, it is not madhab. . .

and you did not answer the issue of . . .

My point is, I believe this should not happen and the meaning should not share the same "root words" since Allah said

an Arabic Qur'an, without any deviance that they might become righteous.
39.28

I believe this is the loophole and the meanings of the Quran have been corrupted
"The word "religion" share many root words and thus, the Arabic meanings can be deviated".

. . .

Secondly,

This is why I define Islam in the Quran as a theology, creed.

This is why Islam in the Quran defined as a creed.
Ex Me (Buddhist) and you (moslem) study in SMK Damansara Jaya.
Formality we're same, we both students of SMK Damansara Jaya and this how we involved in "assimilation"
But in term of religion we're different (theology/salvation)

The above conclusion does not answer the following contention.
In fact, it is supporting my conclusion.

The Hinduist or others can easily say, sure "For you is your religion, and for me is my religion"
See? It is meaningless. . .

. . .

Thirdly,

I hope we're not stuck in this issue for long times.It looks like you didn't read my explanation.
Many words in the Quran has alternative meanings and shouldn't always translated too literally.

I read your argument and it is "Ignoratio elenchi, also known as irrelevant conclusion. It has been described as "attacking what the other fellow never said"

My point is simple, "we are descendants from Adam" and I give the ayat to support my conclusion, that's it.
However, your argument has nothing to do with the above conclusion, and it is wishful thinking.

David_Saidi

Then it is simple, the tail of an elephant is not an elephant..

Therefore, it is not madhab. . .

and you did not answer the issue of . . .

My point is, I believe this should not happen and the meaning should not share the same "root words" since Allah said

an Arabic Qur'an, without any deviance that they might become righteous.
39.28

I believe this is the loophole and the meanings of the Quran have been corrupted
"The word "religion" share many root words and thus, the Arabic meanings can be deviated".

Because this not even a question )

The above conclusion does not answer the following contention.
In fact, it is supporting my conclusion.

Because we aren't in debate,
We share same argument = we got an agreement in a subject.

I read your argument and it is "Ignoratio elenchi, also known as irrelevant conclusion. It has been described as "attacking what the other fellow never said"

Sorry I don't care about this method )

My point is simple, "we are descendants from Adam" and I give the ayat to support my conclusion, that's it.
However, your argument has nothing to do with the above conclusion, and it is wishful thinking.

And I already give explained before atleast two times, but you didn't respond it.
Instead you keep bringing the same arguments multiple times and still claiming as wishful thinking

Ok I want to log out for a while, I'm hungry )

muslims

Okay, no problem.

muslims

The universality of Islam is not uniformity but unity in diversity.

muslims

goodness without wisdom always accomplishes evil . . .

http//i61.tinypic.com/63r9es.gif

Jafar

goodness without wisdom always accomplishes evil . . .

http//i61.tinypic.com/63r9es.gif

Nice diagram,

Without evil how can we tell good?
Without good how can we tell evil?

Is there "good baby" and "evil baby"?
No, babies are just babies, they don't do evil thus they don't do good.

Back to answer the main topic,

islam is an attitude.
It is an attitude of "acceptance" a "surrender" to what has happened, what is happening and what will happened in the future.
It's an attitude recommended by sages of the past such as Jesus, Moses, Siddharta, Lao Tse and hundreds of today self help book's author.

Through islam attitude one will find happiness and peace.
If you haven't felt happiness and peace then you're not yet islam.

Through "acceptance" a "surrender" to what has happened, what is happening and what will happened in the future, one shall have no worries, no envy, no despair, no regrets, no anger. Just peace thus happiness.

It's a simple concept, very easy to say but it's very hard to perform.

Salam / Peace

muslims

It's a simple concept, very easy to say but it's very hard to perform.

It is true and just a matter of perspective, ie.

It's a simple concept, very easy to say (from the perspective of a Deen) but it's very hard to perform (from the perspective of a religion.. sectarianism and bigotism).

and that's why...

(So) you have your din (sectarianism, bigotism),
and I have my Din (living justly balanced and human unity)
(109.6)

It is an absolute separation of way or system of life, which requires wisdom and acceptance of all religions..
Everyone and everything is one, (3.83 below). . and
It is therefore almost impossible for the sectarians to practice Islam.. sadly,

And whoever seeks a "dnan" (&#1575 other than Islam
it will NEVER be accepted of him
and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
(385)

plus . . there is no shortcut for the hypocrites to Islam.. .

Allah would not leave the believers in that you are in
until He separates the evil from the good
(3179)

It is therefore "a simple concept, very easy to say but it's very hard to perform"

Through "acceptance" a "surrender" to what has happened, what is happening and what will happened in the future, one shall have no worries, no envy, no despair, no regrets, no anger. Just peace thus happiness.

Yes and one should realize that...

to Him have submitted (&#1614 those within the heavens and earth (3.83)

Therefore, what is there to resist since everyone and everything have submitted to Allah, willingly or by compulsion.

It also follows that Islam is not about "submission" since everyone and everything have submitted to Allah

But Islam is about "assimilation" of good and evil as one. . Ying and Yang, and I must admit that in some aspect of their faith, it looks like these peoples are more Muslim than the Muslims themselves.

David_Saidi

goodness without wisdom always accomplishes evil . . .

http//i61.tinypic.com/63r9es.gif

hehehe CHINA NAK TIPU URANG MUSLIM!!! rotfl

As muslim we must tried to uphold the white whatever the black is existed.
If necessary the white must have more percentage than black.

If we keep silent and weak, slowly the black will coloured the white withouth you noticed.
If we keep pouring the oil in a glass of water, then the water will spill out by times

White is ma'ruf while black is munkar,
The YIN YANG balance actually just a fake utopia while actually doesn't exist in real life

Salaam

David_Saidi

Qin Dinasty Propaganda http//islaminchina.wordpress.com/2007/11/06/authenticity-of-seek-knowledge-even-as-far-as-china/
http//salafiaqeedah.blogspot.com/2012/04/hadithseek-knowledge-as-far-as-china.html

Fake always fake http//islamqa.info/en/13637
http//islam.stackexchange.com/questions/5311/is-this-a-authentic-hadith-seek-knowledge-even-if-you-have-to-travel-to-china
http//www.al-mawrid.org/pages/questions_english_detail.php?qid=1084&cid=511

Some groups may using religion, god to make moneys

Salaam

David_Saidi

Erased/double post --

muslims

As muslim we must tried to uphold the white whatever the black is existed.

Yes, you as an individual, not as a whole. . . "your life"

How about others?

ie. more than 7 billion peoples on earth, and trillion of other living creatures ?

and..

And if you were to harm (them) in retaliation
harm them to the measure you were harmed
16.126

and 18.68-82 (Moses and Khidhr)

And how can you have patience for what you do not encompass in knowledge?

and. . .

The YIN YANG balance actually just a fake utopia while actually doesn't exist in real life

It is just their symbol for understanding about life, no big deal if its fake or not. .
It is irrelevant unless among the sectarians

hehehe CHINA NAK TIPU URANG MUSLIM!!! rotfl

The main point life is about balance

The main point is Allah do command justice and balance in the society

God orders
justice (creating balance)
and goodness
16.90

Justice, is about "balance" . .
Sunnatullah, is about "balance" . .
Everything is about "balance" . .

There is no such thing as everything is "white" (good) or "black" (evil)

Have you not learned something after so many years living on earth as a human being?

David_Saidi

Sorry muslims, you hijacked many verses in the Quran so I cannot respond yours

Have you not learned something after so many years living on earth as a human being?

Yes I already learnt anything, many aspects and even good and bad side of somethings.
There is nothing such as Yin Yang balance, that was just a jokes created by chinese clerics.

Humans created with desire, to uphold and keep their ideology existed, somewhat they will see the other group who opposed as an obstacle.

The muslims will tried to spread their teaching to non muslims via da'wah or invasion in the past time
The Christian has term named "Lost Sheep" means people who still not believe in Jesus as God,
according to them both you and me is the Lost Sheep and we're the target of their misionary/evangelist activities.

Remember, some Sacred Books properchied the doomsday, at that time the people fighting each other, spill blood, no balance at all.

So even Yin Yang authorized by god, fake still a fake.

By saying "China nak tipu", I don't propgandate anti China ethnically/physically but just their attitude.
I love Chinese, but little of them I befriend to because of that

We can befriend each other with the Chinese, but we still have our identity
Both you and me already live together with the Chinese for along time, but unlike you, me is type of person who learn the darks side of something, learning something for how to filter some other concepts
Just like I already learn the dark side of Quranist and Sunnism hehehe

muslims

There is nothing such as Yin Yang balance, that was just a jokes created by chinese clerics.

So the "IDEA" is a joke and unjust simply because it is created by the Chinese clerics ?

Is Sunnatullah a joke?

and of course, I've said it . . .

It is just their symbol for understanding about life, no big deal if its fake or not. .
It is irrelevant unless among the sectarians

You seem to simply ignore the verses and points I'd given above.

David_Saidi

sorry brother, I already edited mine post )

Please re-read again.

muslims

My question remain and in addition . . . what is wrong with this idea?

http//i61.tinypic.com/63r9es.gif

Is it wrong because of the "idea" itself . . .

. . .or is it wrong because the "Chinese clerics" invented this idea etc.?

How about this example, a mosquito... is it a joke?

Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example
that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it
And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord
But as for those who disbelieve, they say,
"What did Allah intend by this as an example?"
He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby
And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient
2.26

muslims

Sorry muslims, you hijacked many verses in the Quran so I cannot respond yours

prove it . . don't just say it

here is my point

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg349240#msg349240

Therefore . . .

prove that life is not about Sunnatullah
prove that justice is not about balance

answer the above questions

Prove it . . your blank accusation/denial does not prove anything, it is showing your lack of common sense

David_Saidi

My question remain and in addition . . . what is wrong with this idea?

http//i61.tinypic.com/63r9es.gif

I already answer that.....

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg349223#msg349223

Sorry to ad hominem or little OOT , you person only know bout phylossopy, but didn't carefully to watch the situation.
You simply say "yes" to other concepts.

Yeaahh it's okay the Malay races from Southern Phillipine to Indonesia start to praise the Chinese, their cultures and religions, withouth realize if this only raised the Chinese hemegony in this archipelago especially in 2020 soon in the impact of free-trade/ACFTA

You must realize, the Malay races whatever their language is the majority and the main power in South East Asia, if Malay is too weak with foreign hegemony means the entire South East Asia will fall down to them

This scheme is similiar with the Hallyu/Korean Wave whose already brainwashed the young generations in this time.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Wave

We may befriend to them (Chinese) , but it doesn't means we're weak to them, because such as balance doesn't existed and only a theory

The strong always oppress the weak, and this circle always happened time to time.
You praise the Chinese, work to them then their hegemony will roams against you, no balance at all.

Peace

muslims

I'm speaking about the "underlying idea" from Yin and Yang, what the symbol means. . .

and I asked you what's wrong with the idea . . .

is it wrong because of the idea itself, or
is it wrong the Chinese clerics invented the idea

and your answer

I already answer that.....

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg349223#msg349223

Okay, you agree that there is nothing wrong with the idea

It is wrong simply because the Chinese clerics invented the idea

| Me | | goodness without wisdom always accomplishes evil . . .
(graph Yin and Yang)

| You | | The YIN YANG balance actually just a fake utopia while actually doesn't exist in real life

| Me | | It is just their symbol for understanding about life, no big deal if its fake or not. .
It is irrelevant unless among the sectarians
The main point life is about balance
. . .
The main point is Allah do command justice and balance in the society
Justice, is about "balance" . .
Sunnatullah, is about "balance" . .
Everything is about "balance" . .

| You | | Sorry muslims, you hijacked many verses in the Quran so I cannot respond yours
. . .
There is nothing such as Yin Yang balance, that was just a jokes created by chinese clerics.

| Me | | prove it . . don't just say it
...
prove that life is not about Sunnatullah
prove that justice is not about balance

| | | So the "IDEA" is a joke and unjust simply because it is created by the Chinese clerics ?
Is Sunnatullah a joke?

| | | My question remain and in addition . . . what is wrong with this idea?
Is it wrong because of the "idea" itself . . .
. . .or is it wrong because the "Chinese clerics" invented this idea etc.?
How about this example, a mosquito... is it a joke?

| You | | I already answer that.....
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg349223#msg349223

| | |

| ie. ur answer | | White is ma'ruf while black is munkar,
The YIN YANG balance actually just a fake utopia while actually doesn't exist in real life

It is clear that it is wrong not because of the "idea" itself, but because it is invented by the Chinese clerics . . .

So even Yin Yang authorized by god, fake still a fake.

(ie. even if the same concept is supported in other religion etc.)

Are you are a sectarian. . . a bigot ?

and . . .

Do you realize that you are speaking about "balance" and supporting the idea or theory itself,
but simply rejecting the idea because it is from the Chinese clerics ? ;D

e.g.

If we keep silent and weak, slowly the black will coloured the white withouth you noticed.
If we keep pouring the oil in a glass of water, then the water will spill out by times

You praise the Chinese, work to them then their hegemony will roams against you, no balance at all.

contradicting your own statement. . .

because such as balance doesn't existed and only a theory

See how you are getting confused with your own statement and understanding. . .
making judgement from which sect, race or nation that they belong. . .

and for the believers, there is no fear and no worries about life

because Sunnatullah do exist..

because Allah is Al-'Adl, The Just . . . The All Just

http//www.namesofallah.com/prev_site/images/names1/adl.gif

There is good, there is evil. . .

and there is balance between good and evil at all times. . . always, micro and macro level !

the established way of Allah ( &#1616 with those who passed on before
and you will not find in the way of Allah ( &#1616 any change
33.62

Maybe many people are too blind to see Allah's balance and justice. . .

to Him have submitted (&#1614 those within the heavens and earth (3.83)

Unquestionably, the allies of Allah there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve (1062)