What is Islam?
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I already said if it's are my settings from the start.
no compare with the following statement . . .
The phrase "China nak tipu" is also my trap.
See how your statement always full of inconsistencies ? laugh
I'm a civillian not goverment,
So if government said A, then the civillizian also said A??
State and civillian is different, by brother...Btw I aslo have Malaysian Mykad, I get it from Sarawak.
Yeah in Sarawak-Kalimantan border, some people in there have dual-citizenshipExample if Osama said "I will destroy America", according to UN constitution what Osama attack to is US state (government) not it's civillian.
If I said "China is destroyed" this means it's state (government and constitutions) not Chinese in ethnicity/civillian.
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I'm a civillian not goverment,
That's not the issue. . the issue is you support and keep silent about the oppression and brutality.
Posting that videos only prove if you actually still don't understand the context.
That videos, has no effect to me.Please try to differ what is state, what is civillian.
I'm a civillian who don't care about my state (government).What the Indonesian government did has nothing to do with Islam. . .it is in fact equal to the Taliban etc.
and you are okay with all that? . . . This is madness.
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=kslNnhVCksw#t=360
and then you question and saying bad things about the Chinese, the less than 1% population in Indonesia, and out of 255 million peoples
What's wrong with you? It is supposed to be javanese people country only ? laugh
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That's not the issue. . the issue is you support and keep silent about the oppression and brutality.
This is madness.
Because I have no power to stop it.
This is not the government who officially did it, perhaps some delinquent military members.
Btw this cases is not as simple as you see in the video, it's very complex and full of conspiration.http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQRcGCc-ZL8
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmKc_kDZNEYIn that video you will know if Nicholas Messet (ex OPM's foreign minister) and Nicholas Jouwe (the desainer of West Papuan flag) already deserted OPM (Free Papua Movement) and want to remain royal with Indonesian govt.
If you want to know, Indonesian Papua split into two provices.One is Irian Jaya and one is West Papua.
Free Papua Movement want to West Papuan independence not Irian Jaya.
Papua itself is not the name of ethnic but name of place, there are many ethnics like Dani, Asmat, Papuan Muslim (raja Ampat) and etc.
Sometimes tribal conflict happened in there,You also said if the entire soldiers and police in operations is muslism.How you know??
Some of soldier and police in there came from Batak, Mollucan ethnic and local Papuan and they're ChristianBtw who cares of this issue, all what I do is just to prove if you're inconsistent with your own theory
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Btw who cares of this issue, all what I do is just to prove if you're inconsistent with your own theory
http//freewestpapua.wordpress.com/2009/09/24/shocking-images-of-indonesian-military-sweeping-operations-against-west-papuan-civilians/
more images
That clearly prove your belief. . .
In West Papua people get 15 years in prison for peacefully raising their flag, villages are burnt down regularly by the Indonesian army in the highland region, & women and children are routinely raped by the notoriously brutal Indonesian army. There is no equality, only racism, injustice and eternal suffering.
Since Indonesia colonised West Papua, it is estimated that between 500,000 and 1 million people have been killed by the brutal Indonesian military. Countless others have been raped, tortured, imprisoned or ?disappeared? for speaking out against Indonesian rule.
Indonesia bans journalists and human rights observers from entering West Papua. They are desperate to hide the facts of the killings and crimes against humanity that they are committing there. Similarly to in East Timor where the Indonesian military committed the worst reported cases of human rights abuses in the modern era, they are now doing the same again in West Papua.; Free West Papua
Acheh. . .
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLLbH9fLu3YAs we can see, your contentions are full of inconsistencies and distortion of facts.
In fact, I believe you are religious people and a sectarian. . .
and what you are saying has nothing to do with Islam.I rest my case.
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Salaam
Your argumentative skill is very weak.You still relate two entities who has less correlation.
Example If I'm American then can you judge me for supporting Bush to do war crimes in Iraq just by looking my nationality?
So where is my relations in west papuan issue?
The muslims soldier who torture unarmed people cannot be called as moo'men but moonafeq.
That soldiers of course are enemy of Islam too.As we can see, your contentions are full of inconsistencies and distortion of facts.
In fact, I believe you are religious people and a sectarian. . .
and what you are saying has nothing to do with Islam.Mohammed (saw) is also sectarian, if not he won't attacking pagan or jewish tribes to make them embrance Islam.
And also the Caliphate will not destroy Byzantine just because they're Christian.Islam is identity and must be united in single ummah whatever the sects.
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Your argumentative skill is very weak.
From what perspective?
Your wishful thinking and distorted facts ?
. . .
So where is my relations in west papuan issue?
Contradicting your statement . . .
As muslim we must tried to uphold the white whatever the black is existed.
If necessary the white must have more percentage than black.
If we keep silent and weak, slowly the black will coloured the white withouth you noticed.
If we keep pouring the oil in a glass of water, then the water will spill out by times
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg349223#msg349223and you should not keep silent, and say I'm a civillian. . . so I don't care what happen to them, or
Posting that videos only prove if you actually still don't understand the context.
That videos, has no effect to me.Please try to differ what is state, what is civillian.
I'm a civillian who don't care about my state (government).
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg349340#msg349340or
Btw who cares of this issue
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605723.msg349366#msg349366. . .
Mohammed (saw) is also sectarian, if not he won't attacking pagan or jewish tribes to make them embrance Islam.
Another contradiction . . .
And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely.
Then, , would you compel the people in order that they become believers?
And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah
and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason
1099-100So remind, ; you are only a reminder.
You are not over them a controller.
However, he who turns away and disbelieves -
Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment.
Indeed, to Us is their return.
Then indeed, upon Us is their account.
8821-26See? Another wishful thinking . . . your contention are full of inconsistencies.
and did you mean this kind of unity and Islam ?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-p5OHTSxk
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj_GTRcKq_I
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ReNSqqVeU
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0S4qUQWzU
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHPvxCKofs4 -
Mohammed (saw) is also sectarian, if not he won't attacking pagan or jewish tribes to make them embrance Islam.
And also the Caliphate will not destroy Byzantine just because they're Christian.Islam is identity and must be united in single ummah whatever the sects.
Ah you're an Islamist.
This makes it very clear.. and this is where you and I are different.You're following what those Caliphate mandates you to believe.
It was those Caliphate who invented Islamism as a political mean to gain world power and crush their enemies.
As thus the lingo of "enemy of Islam" was born.Those Caliphate also wrote story about the past that must be considered as fact by their follower, thus you read the sectarian Muhammad robbing villages of "the enemies", massacred them and put their women and children into slavery. Which was what those Caliphates love to do anyway. And you believe everything on it.
It's your right to believe whatever you want, as every action shall have an appropriate reaction.
No one is able to escape that law.Salam / Peace
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Religion is an insult to human dignity
With or without religion
you would have good people doing good things and
evil people doing evil things
But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion
Steven WeinbergPeace,
Spoken like a true atheist (Steven Weinberg) nope
God bless
peace
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Salaam
From what perspective?
Your wishful thinking and distorted facts ?
You related two prespective which has no connections at all
And had your Lord willed, those on earth would have believed - all of them entirely.
Then, , would you compel the people in order that they become believers?
And it is not for a soul to believe except by permission of Allah
and He will place defilement upon those who will not use reason
1099-100So remind, ; you are only a reminder.
You are not over them a controller.
However, he who turns away and disbelieves -
Then Allah will punish him with the greatest punishment.
Indeed, to Us is their return.
Then indeed, upon Us is their account.
8821-26Simple you intepret the Quran withouth knowing the just and cause for in what situation that verses was sent down.
Claim to following hadith, but intepret Quran by assumptions.and did you mean this kind of unity and Islam ?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-p5OHTSxk
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj_GTRcKq_I
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ReNSqqVeU
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0S4qUQWzU
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHPvxCKofs4Since you believe in hadith, then why you refute it??
According to hadith, the Ahmadiyah deserved to get it, since they did high treason and corrupted religion of Allah.
Also in hadith, Ahmadiyah will labelled as "raddad".Same as murtad, they will get death sentence if they're not repent.Oh yes maybe the terms kill and death sentece already get the bad stereotype in the current civillization/era.
Oh yes maybe death sentence is against the human right according to the current civillization.
And you muslims, you just get brainwashed by the environment of this civvilizationFor us who lived in this era perhaps will get shock by watching this video, but if we lived in the medieval or ancient eras, perhaps watching that phenomenon is a common thing or maybe supporting it
I ever heard a quote from a cleric.
He said "We must follow the God's teaching not make God's teaching to follow manmade laws and civillization"Until now I still agreed with that quote.
Ah you're an Islamist.
This makes it very clear.. and this is where you and I are different.Differences doesn't make us hate each other.
The only thing we must uphold is toleranceYou're following what those Caliphate mandates you to believe.
It was those Caliphate who invented Islamism as a political mean to gain world power and crush their enemies.
As thus the lingo of "enemy of Islam" was born.Sound islamophobes
Plus it depend which Caliphate?? Me only recognized Rasyidin Calipate as true Caliphate, while it's succesor just only a power seeker.
The purpose of creation of Caliphate state at time is too implement the God's sharia and protect moslems from foreign invasion.
At that time there is none like UN or somethings and invasion was commons.Those Caliphate also wrote story about the past that must be considered as fact by their follower, thus you read the sectarian Muhammad robbing villages of "the enemies", massacred them and put their women and children into slavery. Which was what those Caliphates love to do anyway. And you believe everything on it.
Mohammed never did that.He is not a simple person who attack another tribes because of that insane reasons
There is an evidence if Muhammad also uphold tolerance with other religion
See http//4.bp.blogspot.com/-P02h9DLZHBc/UFiwH6F6BGI/AAAAAAAACT4/OCbLvrDuW58/s1600/Prophet+Mohammad's+letter+to+St.+Catherine+Monastery.jpg
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You related two prespective which has no connections at all
The message of the Quran is "would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
and . . "So remind, ; you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller."
and the is no compulsion in the deen. . .but you said
Mohammed (saw) is also sectarian, if not he won't attacking pagan or jewish tribes to make them embrance Islam.
Therefore, your contention are contradicting the Quran.
. . .
Since you believe in hadith, then why you refute it??
Because hadith is man-made (you are merely repeating the same issue where you have ignored or unable to give reason)
same with other scriptures and need to be confirmed by facts from the Quran . .Wishful thinking. . . prove from the Quran, then the hadith. . . then Ijma, Bible, Torah, Qiyas etc.
Again, and according to priority. . .- Quran
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Hadith
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Ijma (consensus of opinion relating to similarities with specific verses from the Bible, Torah etc)
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Qiyas (analogical reasoning relating to similarities with
non specific verses from the Bible, Torah, Traditions, Man-made law etc)
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Istihsan (equity), Maslahah Mursalah (considerations of public interest),
Istishab (presumption of continuity), Ijtihad (logic, critical thinking) etc . . . .
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Lastly. . . your opinion.
. . .
According to hadith, the Ahmadiyah deserved to get it, since they did high treason and corrupted religion of Allah.
Also in hadith, Ahmadiyah will labelled as "raddad".Same as murtad, they will get death sentence if they're not repent.http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-p5OHTSxk
See? another contradiction . . . since it is not what the Quran are saying . . .
and you are just repeating the issue where you have ignored with your blank denials etc, over and over. . circular reasoning. . .
now . . did those Ahmadiyah reserved to be killed ?
Regarding this "way of life" (hablum minannas), Allah already make it clear. . .
To Him belong the possessions of the heavens and the earth
He spreads out the provision for whoever He wills, and He measures it.
He is fully aware of all things.He has decreed for you the same system <- below is referring to "religion" vs. "ad-deen"
He ordained for Noah,
and what We inspired to you,
and what We ordained for Abraham,
Moses
and Jesus"You shall uphold this system and <- the system of "just" vs. "unjust", balance...
do not divide in it." <- No Sectarianism, ie. assimilation.. assimilate with the societyIntolerable for the polytheists (idol worshipper) is what you invite (unity) them towards <- contradicting the above concept
God chooses for Himself whoever He wills
He guides to Himself those who repent.And they only divided after the knowledge had come to them
due to resentment among themselves
And had it not been for a predetermined decision from your Lord
they would have been judged immediately
Indeed, those who inherited the Book after them are full of doubts.For that, you shall preach (speak for balance and justice)
and be upright, as you have been commanded <- meaning of an upright man
and do not follow their wishes (for sectarianism). And say
"I believe in all that God has sent down as a Book,
and I was commanded to be with justice between you. <- hablum minannas, unity, assimilation
God is our Lord and your Lord.
We have our deeds and you have your deeds.
There is no argument between us and you. <- hablum minallah, no dispute! It is personal preferences.
God will gather us all together, and to Him is the ultimate destiny."
4212-15See? Allah said that "There is no argument between us and you. "
Therefore why are you saying "the Ahmadiyah deserved to get it"
. . .
I ever heard a quote from a cleric.
He said "We must follow the God's teaching not make God's teaching to follow manmade laws and civillization"Until now I still agreed with that quote.
your statement is contradicting with your belief since the hadith is a man-made law etc. . .
contradictorily, you believe that there should be a war or jihad against the non muslim etc
and you said "the Ahmadiyah deserved to get it, since they did high treason and corrupted religion of Allah."
against what the Quran are saying . .
see? your contention are full of inconsistencies . . .
. . .
Differences doesn't make us hate each other.
The only thing we must uphold is toleranceSound islamophobes
Plus it depend which Caliphate?? Me only recognized Rasyidin Calipate as true Caliphate, while it's succesor just only a power seeker.
The purpose of creation of Caliphate state at time is too implement the God's sharia and protect moslems from foreign invasion.
At that time there is none like UN or somethings and invasion was commons.You mean this ? rotfl
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-p5OHTSxk
and . .
See? I have proven again and again that your belief and contentions are full of inconsistencies and contradictions . . .
- Quran
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Yes, I'm also an atheist. .
Your confusion is understandable.
Is that a conclusion or valid argument ? I hope not. . . rotfl
The above statement makes you no difference from the the Sunni and Shia etc . . .The issue is why I'm confused ? . . . prove that I'm confused with Islam and the Quran . . .
State clearly your conclusion and premises. . .http//z5.ifrm.com/30336/15/0/f5229388/argument.png
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The message is "would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
and . . "So remind, ; you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller."
and the is no compulsion in the deen. . .same with other scriptures and need to be confirmed by facts from the Quran . .
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-p5OHTSxk
See? another contradiction . . . since it is not what the Quran are saying
Assumption and assumptions again.You spoke just like you're a Phrophet (the receiver of the wahy)
I already said, you intepret the Quran withouth knowing in what situation, the GOD sent down the verses to Muhammad.
Example for this case
Verse God said "You all must united into the single ummah"
Background This verse was sent down to Muhammad when his moslems companios got divided because differences in tafseer.If I intepret the verses withouth knowing the background, I will only play assumptions, like this possibilities
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Maybe the word "you" refers to people who came from any religious background, so perhaps this verse said if all people must united into single ummah.
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Maybe the word "ummah" refers to country, perhaps all muslims must united into single country.
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and another maybe-perhaps (speculations) ;D
Because hadith is man-made (you are merely reperting the same issue where you have ignored or unable to give reason)
I'm now a hadith follower, but not Sunni, Shia or some madzhab
FOr along time rejecting hadith, now I just repent to GODIf you reject hadith and tafseer, you will not knowing the verses in the Quran (unless by speculations).
Yes hadith is manmade law (Muhammad) and the duty of phrophet is to explain the wahy (Quran).
Just like the previous Phrophets.You mean this ? rotfl
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-p5OHTSxk
Tolerance in Islam is between inter-religion, ex Islam with Christian, Islam with Hindhu.
Not with group who corrupting Islam.
Please learn about the essential of tolerance in Islam.Ahmadiya deserved it, because their mockery toward God's teaching.
The purpose of punishment is to prevent Ahmadiya, before they go further for corrupting GOD's teaching.
This is the hadith said.Murtad and raddad according to hadith, the punishment is death sentence.
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Assumption and assumptions again.You spoke just like you're a Phrophet (the receiver of the wahy)
I already said, you intepret the Quran withouth knowing in what situation, the GOD sent down the verses to Muhammad.
Example for this case
Verse God said "You all must united into the single ummah"
Background This verse was sent down to Muhammad when his moslems companios got divided because differences in tafseer.If I intepret the verses withouth knowing the background, I will only play assumptions, like this possibilities
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Maybe the word "you" refers to people who came from any religious background, so perhaps this verse said if all people must united into single ummah.
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Maybe the word "ummah" refers to country, perhaps all muslims must united into single country.
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and another maybe-perhaps (speculations) ;D
How many times I have to repeat ? Quran, hadith, ijma and qiyas etc.
There is no point of you using the ad hominem, blank denials and circular reasoning to prove your truth . . .Prove from the Quran that Muhammad was allowed to kill people just for the sake of people must embrace the religion of Islam . . .
This is your burden of proof, I have given the ayat that"would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
"So remind, ; you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller."and . . . for me the ummah means people who are glorifying balance and justice, regardless of their religions and belief. . .
This is my prove. . .They are not the same
among the People of the Scripture is a community standing ,
reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating
They believe in Allah and the Last Day,
and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds.
And those are among the righteous
3113-114, and also refer here . . .. . .
I'm now a hadith follower, but not Sunni, Shia or some madzhab
FOr along time rejecting hadith, now I just repent to GODIf you reject hadith and tafseer, you will not knowing the verses in the Quran (unless by speculations).
Yes hadith is manmade law (Muhammad) and the duty of phrophet is to explain the wahy (Quran).
Just like the previous Phrophets.Therefore, give the authority from the Quran first, and then we go to hadith, ijma and qiyas etc. . .
You keep ignoring the issue, please refer to the usul al fiqhPriority of the Quran over the Sunnah
A Sunnah is the second source of the Shari'ah next to the Qur'an,
the mujtahid is bound to observe an order of priority between the Qur'an and Sunnah.
Hence in his search for a solution to a particular problem,
the jurist must resort to the Sunnah ONLY WHEN he fails to find any guidance in the Qur'an.
Should there be a clear text in the Qur'an, it must be followed and be given priority over any ruling of the Sunnah
which may happen to be in conflict with the Qur'an
Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence; p.58 Second Revised Edition; Mohammad Hashim Kamali. . .
Tolerance in Islam is between inter-religion, ex Islam with Christian, Islam with Hindhu.
Not with group who corrupting Islam.
Please learn about the essential of tolerance in Islam.Ahmadiya deserved it, because their mockery toward God's teaching.
The purpose of punishment is to prevent Ahmadiya, before they go further for corrupting GOD's teaching.
This is the hadith said.Murtad and raddad according to hadith, the punishment is death sentence.
I have give you an ayat from the Quran . . .and Allah said "There is no argument between us and you", see also 5.48
This is the rule relating to hablum minallah . . . there is no argument!Therefore where is the ayat to prove your statement that the Ahmadiya deserved to be killed like that ?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-p5OHTSxk
How many times do I have to repeat asking you not to merely stating your opinions ?
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For me the ummah
Yeah according to you, not according to God.
Perhaps yourself is a god DThey are not the same
among the People of the Scripture is a community standing ,
reciting the verses of Allah during periods of the night and prostrating
They believe in Allah and the Last Day,
and they enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and hasten to good deeds.
And those are among the righteous
3113-114, and also refer here . . ."would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
"So remind, ; you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller."How do you know if the verses like talking something like your claim?? (assumption)
I already told you in previous post for the reasonExample for this case
Verse God said "You all must united into the single ummah"
Background This verse was sent down to Muhammad when his moslems companios got divided because differences in tafseer.If I intepret the verses withouth knowing the background for in what situation the verses was sent down,
Then I will only play assumptions, like this possibilities-
Maybe the word "you" refers to people who came from any religious background, so perhaps this verse said if all people must united into single ummah.
-
Maybe the word "ummah" refers to country, perhaps all muslims must united into single country.
-
and another maybe-perhaps (speculations) ;D
Prove from the Quran that Muhammad was allowed to kill people just for the sake of people must embrace the religion of Islam . . .
Therefore where is the ayat to prove your statement ?
No I don't want to do it, since I'm not a Phrophet.
But according to hadith, the purpose muhammad to did that, because at time Islam follower was very little and to gain the influence, the invasion was permissed by the GOD.
The situation at that time is different with now.At that time there is no UN, human right NGOs, and often the countries using military force to spread their hegemony."would you compel the people in order that they become believers?"
"So remind, ; you are only a reminder. You are not over them a controller."Perhaps you're a god and knowing well the purpose of this verse was sent down to Muhammad for hail
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See? again and again and again. . not a even a single ayat to prove your contention relating to the killing of the Ahmadiyya
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=es-p5OHTSxk
It is merely from the hadith and your opinions that they deserve to be killed like that . . .
and which are full of inconsistencies and blank denials . .Say, "Bring forward your witnesses <- ie, the narrators
who will testify that Allah has prohibited this." <- ie, hadith
And if they testify <- ie, hadith
do not testify with them. <- ie, madhab/ religion
And do not follow the desires of those who deny Our verses <- ie, disobedience
and those who do not believe in the Hereafter <- ie, disbelievers
while they equate with their Lord. <- ie, committing shirk
6150. . . .
Yeah acxording to you, not according to God.
Perhaps yourself is a GOD DYou must be blind, I have given a direct ayat from the Quran . . .
It is not me, it is the Quran that is the words of God
You are denying the Quran from God ?
. . .
How do you know if the verses like talking something like your claim?? (assumption)
I already told you in previous post for the reasonread carefully . . . and slowly . . .
People of the Scripture
And those are among the righteous
3113-114, and also refer here . . .So how come they are the Kafir ?
. . .
Therefore where is the ayat to prove your statement ?
No I don't want to do it, since I'm not a Phrophet.
So the Quran is only for the Prophet, then throw away your Quran . . . what is for ?
and who else are the prophet ? Your ulama ? rotfl
. . .
. . . But according to hadith, the purpose muhammad to did that, because at time Islam follower was very little and to gain the influence, the invasion was permissed by the GOD.
Learn usul al-fiqh . . . Quran first, then the Sunnah etc.
the jurist must resort to the Sunnah ONLY WHEN he fails to find any guidance in the Qur'an.
Should there be a clear text in the Qur'an, it must be followed and be given priority over any ruling of the Sunnah
which may happen to be in conflict with the Qur'an. . .
Perhaps you're a god and knowing well the purpose of why this verse was sent down to Muhammad for hail
God don't need the Quran. it is we who need the Quran. . . therefore we are not God ! rotfl
and the context of historical purpose . . .
They will say there were three, the fourth of them being their dog <- rules relating to history
and they will say there were five, the sixth of them being their dog
guessing at the unseen
and they will say there were seven, and the eighth of them was their dog.Say, "My Lord is most knowing of their number. None knows them except a few.
So do not argue about them except with an obvious argument <- the prohibitions, disobey ?
and do not inquire about them among from anyone."
1822 -
Why you're so being stubborn like this.
I told you, I'm not a Quran Alone follower anymore.
I already prove mineself, if withouth the hadith the Quran will sound stranger.We cannot intepret Quran withouth the hadith parameter, because we don't know the reason or in what situation the Qurani verses was sent down.
The term is Asbab un Nuzul , means to intepret a verse, we must knowing first, the background incident following that verse was sent down.
Example
1780 Sahih International And say, "My Lord, cause me to enter a sound entrance and to exit a sound exit and grant me from Yourself a supporting authority."
Background of this verse was sent down
At-Tirmidzi cited from Ibn Abbas if in the past when Phrophet Muhammad lived in Mekkah then was ordered by GOD to did hijrah.
Then this verse was sent down {1780} And say, "My Lord, cause me to enter a sound entrance and to exit a sound exit and grant me from Yourself a supporting authority."This hadith also been supported by Ibn Mardawaih and also been cited by Imam Qurthubi.
Please learn about asbab un Nuzul to know more the examples.
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As usual, ignoring the issue of this discussion and all answers . . .
and another inconsistencies with your previous statement . . .Why are you discussing about the hadith and supporting the killing of innocent peoples ? laugh
I ever heard a quote from a cleric.
He said "We must follow the God's teaching not make God's teaching to follow manmade laws and civillization"Until now I still agreed with that quote.
Hadith is a man-made law
Muhammad is a man
So as Bukhari & Co, ulama etc. . .
They are all men, and their law are man-made law.Your statements are always contradicting with each other and full of inconsistencies. . .
. . .
Why you're so being stubborn like this.
I told you, I'm not a Quran Alone follower anymore.
I already prove mineself, if withouth the hadith the Quran will sound stranger.Brother, are you blind ? Do you know Usul al-Fiqh ? I believe you do. . .
I'm referring you to the Principle of Islamic Jurisprudence, and the Usul al-Fiqh is not the Quran alone ideology. . .
Priority of the Quran over the Sunnah
A Sunnah is the second source of the Shari'ah next to the Qur'an,
the mujtahid is bound to observe an order of priority between the Qur'an and Sunnah.
Hence in his search for a solution to a particular problem,
the jurist must resort to the Sunnah ONLY WHEN he fails to find any guidance in the Qur'an.
Should there be a clear text in the Qur'an, it must be followed and be given priority over any ruling of the Sunnah
which may happen to be in conflict with the Qur'an
Principles of Islamic Jurisprudence; p.58 Second Revised Edition; Mohammad Hashim KamaliKilling people through public sentence is a matter of Islamic Jurisprudence, and . . .
Your people have sentenced those Ahmadiyyah to be killed simply because of their belief (hablum minallah)
They have not committed any injustice relating to hablum minannasYou supported their action and said that the Ahmadiyya deserved to be killed like that, ie. like animals !
and what they did is like what the kafir did to our Prophets !
Public killings and rajam, (18.20, 26.116, 36.18 and 44.20)http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwNuVTuT0vQ
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jj_GTRcKq_I
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3ReNSqqVeU
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=LF0S4qUQWzU
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHPvxCKofs4According to hadith, the Ahmadiyah deserved to get it, since they did high treason and corrupted religion of Allah.
Also in hadith, Ahmadiyah will labelled as "raddad".Same as murtad, they will get death sentence if they're not repent.On the other hand, I have made a counterargument against the hadith and given you the ayat from the Quran
I have proven that your belief and the hadith in inconsistent with the Quran
I have proven that it is inconsistent with the principle of Islamic Jurisprudence, Usul al-Fiqh
Clear authority . . . no compulsion in religion ! . .and as long no direct physical harm to the members of the societyTherefore, give the authority from the Quran first, and then the hadith etc. . .
Wishful thinking. . . prove from the Quran, then the hadith. . . then Ijma, Bible, Torah, Qiyas etc.
Again, and according to priority. . .- Quran
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Hadith
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Ijma (consensus of opinion relating to similarities (incl. hadith) with specific verses from the Bible, Torah etc)
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Qiyas (analogical reasoning relating to similarities (incl. hadith) with
non specific verses from the Bible, Torah, Traditions, Man-made law etc)
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Istihsan (equity), Maslahah Mursalah (considerations of public interest),
Istishab (presumption of continuity), Ijtihad (logic, critical thinking) etc . . . .
http//api.ning.com/files/uGCxg7sZSOsBbNwvSUN0m6uFBP5OUvR7e-3lYPcnfzzdki1NKdfBKi*MBEzKhhqFLbCaNgzbOCTwHTwBFp0cz3nyqUP-l7F1/arrowDownSmall.png - Lastly. . . your opinion.
And in anything over which you disagree <- I disagree with the above facts and your rulings
its ruling is to Allah . <- ie. the Quran
, "That is Allah , my Lord <- Muhammad said this, therefore it is a hadith and it is not his decision anymore. . .
upon Him I have relied It is therefore not to be decided from the hadith,
and to Him I turn back." and obviously not your ulama, but is is the Quran
4210Therefore where is the ayat from the Quran to support such killings ?
- Quran