Is there a single Muslim on this whole website?
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Abraham was not a terrorist. He did not frighten others. He was alone, he could do no harm to anyone. He offended the pagans, that is not terrorism.
The law that Abraham broke was that he damaged someone else's property. He was young and if justice were to be served he should have been made to pay for the damages. The prophet Mohammed was ordered to only defend himself if he was attacked. He never broke any law.
Different cultures have different justice systems. Abraham was a terrorist, he terrorized the people by breaking their idols and making a public scene and threatened their way of life, threatening them and destroying the images of their God's they held dearest were acts of terrorism for them. So they decided he should be executed. Our Master, who does not abide by Justice nor is Bound to Justice, turned the fire cold. God showed that God can change anything, and God can choose and favor anyone.
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It's just wrong of you to say that God is the greatest potential enemy of all.
When Moses saw that his fellow man was having a dispute he should have found out what the dispute was over. If his fellow man had said that his brother or somone close in his family had been murdered by the Egyptian then Moses should have taken him to the authorities. There is no reason at all for him to strike and kill him.
God has given his law to us, we are expected to follow it and administer it even if it goes against us.
Is there some greater potential enemy than God? If God is made the enemy of someone, and God can not be defeated, then how is God not the greatest potential enemy and threat and the one that needs to be feared the most? Maybe you're misunderstanding my language use because of emotional attachments to certain words.
No, sometimes you can't "reason it out" something you're in the heat of the moment, and you should know that the EXACT METHOD of DEATH was DECREED for that person at that time, so do you think some accident occurred? That the person wasn't supposed to be killed by Musa precisely that moment? That doesn't mean we shouldn't repent, but it wasn't Allah's mistake, Allah wrote that story.
No, if you break the Law, even the Law of Allah, you repent and you survive, and your dealings are between you and Allah. You do not hand yourself over to humans if they are going to kill you and end your ability to do more good deeds, you will die when and in the way you're supposed (so if God makes you foolishly go hand yourself over, so be it) but you should survive by all means to live a life doing good thereafter.
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For me Islam is simply a powerful reminder of universal / moral human values, such as peace, not killing, not stealing, doing good deeds. Rituals etc. on the other hand are not and simply cannot be the basis (pillars) of Islam as argued by traditional Muslims.
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For me Islam is simply a powerful reminder of universal / moral human values, such as peace, not killing, not stealing, doing good deeds. Rituals etc. on the other hand are not and simply cannot be the basis (pillars) of Islam as argued by traditional Muslims.
Did you know those things were practiced in the past too? That worship was an important part of the cultures from around the world and part of the "good deeds" in the belief of the Hindus, the Zoroastrians, the Chinese, the Buddhists, the Egyptians and whoever else from around the whole world? Its supposed to be a good deed for yourself to yourself.
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Did you know those things were practiced in the past too? That worship was an important part of the cultures from around the world and part of the "good deeds" in the belief of the Hindus, the Zoroastrians, the Chinese, the Buddhists, the Egyptians and whoever else from around the whole world? Its supposed to be a good deed for yourself to yourself.
I absolutely didn't say that worship is useless or unimportant. But I've come to the conclusion that basic values like justice, peace, doing good deeds etc. are far more more important.
If praying 5 times a day was the most important aspect of Islam (which it absolutely cannot be), then how come the "Islamic world" is in such a terrible mess?
So much ignorance, suffering, barbarity, intolerance, wars, chaos, hypocrisy and basically all that is unislamic and evil can be found in all Muslim countries. This despite the fact that probably hundreds of millions of Muslims pray 5 times a day. How is that working out for us? Obviously, rituals are not the essence or objective of religions, good conduct is. Rituals are just means to remember God.
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Peace Recluse,
For me Islam is simply a powerful reminder of universal / moral human values, such as peace, not killing, not stealing, doing good deeds. Rituals etc. on the other hand are not and simply cannot be the basis (pillars) of Islam as argued by traditional Muslims.
bravo Agreed!
I am assuming you meant "islam" with a small "i" rather than Islam with a capital "I".
Islam is the religion of Muslims (capital M) and rituals are the basis of that Islam.
Islam is not the same as "islam".
Islam or Muslims are never mentioned in al-quran, but "islam" and "muslims" are mentioned.
Please see the following for what islam means according to al-quran
http//www.free-minds.org/introduction-peacefulness
http//www.quran4peace.org/en_index.html
You should have phrased your statement as follows
"For me "islam" is simply a powerful reminder of universal / moral human values, such as peace, not killing, not stealing, doing good deeds. Rituals etc. on the other hand are not and simply cannot be the basis (pillars) of "islam" as argued by traditional Muslims"
Muslims (capital M) actually violate a lot of commandments of al-quran.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
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Peace Recluse,
You should have phrased your statement as follows
"For me "islam" is simply a powerful reminder of universal / moral human values, such as peace, not killing, not stealing, doing good deeds. Rituals etc. on the other hand are not and simply cannot be the basis (pillars) of "islam" as argued by traditional Muslims"
Muslims (capital M) actually violate a lot of commandments of al-quran.
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
Peace truthseeker11,
Sorry, I don't know Arabic.. but I'll check your link, thank you..
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Peace Recluse,
If praying 5 times a day was the most important aspect of Islam (which it absolutely cannot be), then how come the "Islamic world" is in such a terrible mess?
Praying 5 times a day is the most important aspect of Islam (capital I).
However, praying 5 times a day is not even present in the quraanic "islam" (small "i".
Salaat doesn't mean "prayer" in al-quran.
Nowhere does al-quran say to "pray" 5 times a day.
The word for "pray" in al-quran is "du'a" and not "salaat".
This is why I was telling you that Muslims (capital M) violate al-quran.
For more details of what "salaat" means in al-quran please see the following by Ayman and Wakas
http//www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part3.pdf
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
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Peace Recluse,
Praying 5 times a day is the most important aspect of Islam (capital I).
However, praying 5 times a day is not even present in the quraanic "islam" (small "i".
Salaat doesn't mean "prayer" in al-quran.
Nowhere does al-quran say to "pray" 5 times a day.
The word for "pray" in al-quran is "du'a" and not "salaat".
This is why I was telling you that Muslims (capital M) violate al-quran.
For more details of what "salaat" means in al-quran please see the following by Ayman and Wakas
http//www.quran4peace.org/documents/Quran4peace-English-part3.pdf
http//www.mypercept.co.uk/articles/disproved_traditional_salat.htm
Peace and may the infinite Creator bless you.
Thank you truthseeker,
I'm still undecided about salat, but I'm merely seeking the truth. Thanks so much for the links, I will bookmark them.
May God bless you too...
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Is it that you think I'm not thinking?
Adam and Eve were right, they were forgiven immediately, there was nothing wrong with eating the fruit, it wasn't the "cause" of anything, it was an event which demonstrated the techniques of Satan in a harmless way, they became guilty after they did it. I would not be guilty if I killed my enemies to survive.
What those brothers did was very wrong and had bad intentions as well, and they hid it and hurt their father for years, yet it had good things come out of it.
Allah is writing all these stories. Allah says to repent if you make a mistake, and does not give the message of handing yourself over to your enemies. Your sense of justice may be a bit skewed or too extreme. God can do anything and make anything true and can forgive anything, or is it you believe in the God locked in a legalistic mire, who needs a human sacrifice to forgive the sins of mankind? Are you one of those who might say Allah's hand is fettered? What do you think the partners people used to make with God were? The ancient God's were just words for things, like "Time" and "Justice" and God is not fettered, so if you make a mistake, then continue to survive to do good another day is my advice and even seems to be the advice of the Qur'an. Were Adam and Eve immediately killed? No, not even Satan was immediately killed. Allah is the one who gives reprieve and gives a chance to amend, not a strict legalistic God because God is free of such things and can do anything and it is on God who we rely for everything, so if one makes a mistake, they should ask for forgiveness. Was Cain killed immediately? No, he was guided. Allah is the greatest.
You need to learn English properly then go back to understanding the translation of the Quran. God is bound by his own Words. He is just no matter what the situation.
Are you born Muslim or a convert?
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You need to learn English properly then go back to understanding the translation of the Quran. God is bound by his own Words. He is just no matter what the situation.
Are you born Muslim or a convert?
FreedomStands so you are a born Muslim. Very good to hear. What is your purpose in life and how should you live it? I'd advise you to understand the Quran properly before you answer.
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Salamun Alaikum.
Is all the debate totally based on one single remark ?Allah is our greatest potential enemy??
Can we not see the word ?potential? in the sentence.If I choose to repress my faith then yes Allah is the greatest potential enemy that I need to be worried about..
298 Who would be an enemy of Allah and His angels and His messengers and Gabriel and Michael? Then indeed Allah is an enemy of the ones who repress (faith).
(My personal translation, cross checking is recommended.)
What is the debate again?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salamun Alaikum.
Is all the debate totally based on one single remark ?Allah is our greatest potential enemy??
Can we not see the word ?potential? in the sentence.If I choose to repress my faith then yes Allah is the greatest potential enemy that I need to be worried about..
What is the debate again?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanThat's just stupid. No one can never be consider God to be an enemy. That is one of the stupidest things I have heard. You're obviously not a muslim. Even Satan does not consider God as his enemy.
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God's purpose for everything is that they do and be exactly as God intends them, and that is always the case no matter what.
My purpose is to seek pleasure and avoid suffering at all costs (and God is the true source of both that can ultimately provide lasting forms of each, so to deal with God in order to achieve pleasure and avoid suffering in all ways and every way particularly in the most lasting and ultimate ways).
This is achieved generally first by surviving and living, eating etc, shelter, defense, clothing, then of course to do good and worship and ask for Allah for guidance and whatever we want and to spare us from suffering and work diligently in the cause of goodness and charity and decreasing suffering around us too. Do unto others as you would have God do unto you. So to give mercy within reason if you want mercy, to give gifts if you want gifts, to be gentle with creatures because you too are in the same plight and are a creature in need, and not to frighten or cause anxiety in them, etc.
Do you really think I don't know the Qur'an or understand it, yet you are under the impression that whereas I do not understand the Qur'an, you do understand it? Certainly that is a wonderful gift you have been given.
So your purpose is to seek pleasure and avoid suffering. Where in the Quran or Bible does it say that? I think I may have got it all wrong. Please do teach me.
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That's just stupid. No one can never be consider God to be an enemy. That is one of the stupidest things I have heard. You're obviously not a muslim. Even Satan does not consider God as his enemy.
Well once you are done with your name calling... (stupid, stupidest ets.) perhaps you could clarify exactly what part of "Allah is an enemy to the faith repressors ( َ you find difficult to understand?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Well once you are done with your name calling... (stupid, stupidest ets.) perhaps you could clarify exactly what part of "Allah is an enemy to the faith repressors ( َ you find difficult to understand?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanSalaam Arman,
It looks Ted misunderstood your question. I think its Freedomstands who said God can be considered the potential enemy of man, which needs further clarifications. May be I am wrong.
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Salam Amin.
If someone said that "God can be considered a potential enemy of entire mankind" then of course that is absurd. Somehow I am feeling nobody is saying that here. However, God can be our enemy if we choose to repress our faith - and from that perspective God is our greatest potential enemy if we choose or fancy to be willfully disobedient. That is clearly implied in Qur'an.
I just think lot of the debate on this thread is simply result of misunderstanding of what others are saying.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Ok I guess we should ask FreedomStands to clarify.
FreedomStands, please do clarify.