Out of Curiosity.......
-
Salam es.
On this topic my stance is same as earlier expressed by progressive1993 and Good Logic.
For your other question - if I do eat meat from animals "sacrificed" in sunni way - yes OF COURSE I do. Claiming such meat to be haram would be another innovation in the name of God.
However, if I am aware that an animal has been donated for slaughter (sunni way or otherwise) at the mazaar (mausoleum) / grave of a dead saint (sunni or otherwise), presumably in the hope of extra "blessings"... I would consider such meat haram falling in the category "what is dedicated to other than God".
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salaam,
Where I live all meat is "halal slaughtered", so it is not much to say, but I disagree that the method is necessary for it to be perfectly drained of blood. And there will always be small quantities of blood remaining in the animal no matter how you do.
The passage speaks of blood in general and for its consumption and it stems from rules of the 'Children of Israel' and that blood is life. But it is also the deliberate consumption of blood alone. Blood is also not suitable for consumption. It is not only because of a dogmatic rule.
As for "mentioning Allah" that is a false translation because it says "regard Allah" as it is a creation of the Rabb. Dhekr has more of a meaning of regard/honor someone than remember.
As for haraam the word means sanctified, but that is another story. The interpreters of the dark ages disregarded that before haraam it says anema (ا which is supposed to say "It (is) not" as a compound of and . By other words it says that the stuff is not recommended/goodly for consumption.
And as for already dead animals this is obvious. Not even atheist hunters take an animal that has died on its own. It has to do with the risk of contamination and disease.
Salaam
-
Salaam Arman,
Salam es.
On this topic my stance is same as earlier expressed by progressive1993 and Good Logic.
For your other question - if I do eat meat from animals "sacrificed" in sunni way - yes OF COURSE I do. Claiming such meat to be haram would be another innovation in the name of God.
However, if I am aware that an animal has been donated for slaughter (sunni way or otherwise) at the mazaar (mausoleum) / grave of a dead saint (sunni or otherwise), presumably in the hope of extra "blessings"... I would consider such meat haram falling in the category "what is dedicated to other than God".
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanThank you for the explanation. My understanding is such that I agree with you on every single point, theoretically. I will explain my perspective on this later and also some reservations which I have.
Peace.
Sajda.
-
Salam es
For me method of slaughtering is not an issue but saying bismillah before eating it. In fact I say bismillah on everything I eat. I do eat meat bought from stores who claim it is slaughtered in sunni way and I also eat lawful meat from other stores. There has to be a wisdom in not explaining how to slaughter an animal in The Qur'an.
Peace -
Salam es
There has to be a wisdom in not explaining how to slaughter an animal in The Qur'an.
PeaceOf course, it is not the book for a Pagan religion.
Salaam
-
How many people eat "halal" meat slaughtered according to traditional Sunni methods through wilful choice?
Also, what are the environmental, "moral", "philosophical", et cetera factors you take into consideration when making choices about what to eat?
I lived in the area where 'halal' meat is easily accessible, so I eat homemade meat the comes from the halal meat shops. Finding the right meat is not tricky at all.
But I have to make tough choices about food containing alcohol. I once ate the caramel popcorn with rum, and didn't know about it until my someone told me about it. It's not easy to find food that mentions the containing of alcohol or wine. There are even cuisines and food packets from supermarket that are cooked with wine or alcohol without a direct mention.
As for moral factors, I usually eat homemade food rather than outside street food. I avoid eating fried and heavy food and use olive oil for cooking. I also don't drink frizzy drinks but that is because I simply don't like the taste of it.
-
Oh God. You really think about your health. No junk food people here alright.
Salaam
-
-
Oh well. They use to say you become what you it. It is quite literal.
Salaam
-
Salamun alaik Arman,
For your other question - if I do eat meat from animals "sacrificed" in sunni way - yes OF COURSE I do. Claiming such meat to be haram would be another innovation in the name of God.
The sunni way is to make the animal face the pagan black cube idol of Allat while sacrificing. They say that if faced any other way it would become haram. Wouldn't that make the animal sacrificed to other than Allah (53)?
Regards
-
Peace N00B,
I lived in the area where 'halal' meat is easily accessible, so I eat homemade meat the comes from the halal meat shops. Finding the right meat is not tricky at all.
The meat that comes from halal meat shops has antibiotics and hormones artificially given to the animals, the consumption of which can cause cancer and drug resistance in bacteria causing the appearance of deadly bacterial strains that are drug resistant to even the most powerful antibiotics. Those animals are also fed GMO foods, which go into your body when you ingest the meat of those animals. Those GMO foods can cause a variety of health issues.
The ONLY meat that should be eaten nowadays is organic meat, obtained from grass fed and pasture raised animals/birds that are fed organic diet which is free of GMOs.
When you eat meat that contains all these poisons, it is not "tayyabaat" and you violate 55
55 Today, the good things (tayyabaat) have been made lawful to you.........................
But I have to make tough choices about food containing alcohol. I once ate the caramel popcorn with rum, and didn't know about it until my someone told me about it. It's not easy to find food that mentions the containing of alcohol or wine. There are even cuisines and food packets from supermarket that are cooked with wine or alcohol without a direct mention.
The alcohol completely evaporates from the food cooked in it and not even a trace of it remains.
As for moral factors, I usually eat homemade food rather than outside street food. I avoid eating fried and heavy food and use olive oil for cooking. I also don't drink frizzy drinks but that is because I simply don't like the taste of it.
Make sure it is organic food which does not contain toxic pesticides otherwise it is not "tayyabaat". Try to use refined virgin organic coconut oil for frying and unrefined virgin organic coconut oil for regular cooking, because coconut oil does not get oxidized when cooked. Olive oil gets about 20% oxidized when cooked which causes formation of toxic free radicals which cause damage in the body. That is why health conscious people take anti-oxidants, to neutralize the toxic free radicals in the body. Try to use extra virgin cold pressed organic olive oil only for salads or to pour over prepared food.
May the infinite Creator guide us to the truth.
-
Salamun alaik Arman,
The sunni way is to make the animal face the pagan black cube idol of Allat while sacrificing. They say that if faced any other way it would become haram. Wouldn't that make the animal sacrificed to other than Allah (53)?
Regards
Really? I've never heard this before.
-
Salaam Sajda,
Really? I've never heard this before.
Sunni method
"3. To face the slaughter?s neck towards the direction of the Qiblah (i.e direction of prayer-Ka^bah in Makkah) and for the slaughterer to also face his body in the direction of the Qiblah when slaughtering. This practice is in the tradition of Prophet Muhammad as relayed by the two renowned scholars of Islam Al-Bukhariy and Muslim and because the Qiblah is the most honourable direction to face."
http//www.alsunna.org/The-Islamic-Slaughtering-Method-Zabiha.html#gsc.tab=0
"A Zabiha Specialist should know how to face the animals towards the qibla to the best of his/her ability."
http//nemahalal.com/faq/
"The slaughter is to be approved by several religious authorities. Another condition is that when the slaughter is done the animal should be facing Qibla, which is the direction where Mecca is located."
http//www.pakbutchers.co.uk/halal.html
"According to Islamic tradition, the animal is brought to the place of slaughter and laid down gently so as to not injure it. It is Sunnah but not Fard that the head of the animal be facing the Qiblah."
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah
Shia method
"(iii) When an animal is slaughtered, it should be facing Qibla. If the animal is sitting or standing, then facing Qibla would be like a man standing towards Qibla while praying. And if it is lying on its right or left side, then its neck and stomach should be facing Qibla. It is not necessary that its legs, hands and face be towards Qibla. If a person who knows the rule, purposely ignores placing the animal towards Qibla, the animal would become haraam; but if he forgets or does not know the rule, or makes a mistake in ascertaining the Qibla, or does not know the direction of Qibla, or is unable to turn the animal towards Qibla, there is no objection. As a recommended precaution, the person slaughtering should also face Qibla."
http//www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-al-uzma-sayyid-ali-al-husaini-seestani/slaughtering-and-hunting-animals
"2605. If one wants to slaughter a camel so that it becomes Pak and halal after it has died, it is necessary to follow the above mentioned conditions for slaughter and then thrust a knife or any other sharp implement made of iron into the hollow between its neck and chest. It is better that the camel at that time is standing. But if it has knelt down, or if it is lying on its side with its face towards Qibla, the knife etc. can be thrust into the hollow of its neck for slaughtering."
http//islamic-laws.com/tawzeh/256.html
Regards
-
I lived in the area where 'halal' meat is easily accessible, so I eat homemade meat the comes from the halal meat shops. Finding the right meat is not tricky at all.
But I have to make tough choices about food containing alcohol. I once ate the caramel popcorn with rum, and didn't know about it until my someone told me about it. It's not easy to find food that mentions the containing of alcohol or wine. There are even cuisines and food packets from supermarket that are cooked with wine or alcohol without a direct mention.
As for moral factors, I usually eat homemade food rather than outside street food. I avoid eating fried and heavy food and use olive oil for cooking. I also don't drink frizzy drinks but that is because I simply don't like the taste of it.
Salamun Alaik N00B.
When you reject caramel popcorn with rum is the concern the popcorn will intoxicate you and hinder you from remembrance of Allah; or you thought that the addition of alcohol makes the food "haram"? If you happen to have "accidentally" tried the popcorn, did it intoxicate you to the extent your normal functioning of mind was compromised?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Salm es,
Thank you for raising an interesting subject!
In 6121 we read "Do not eat from that upon which the name of God has not been mentioned; verily, it is a blasphemy..."
In 53 we read "Prohibited for you is carrion, blood, the meat of swine, and that which has been sacrificed in other than God..."
In 6145 we read "Say 'I find not in that which has been revealed to me to be prohibited for an eater to eat except that be carrion, or flowing blood, or the meat of swine (for it is defiled), or a blasphemy sacrificed in other than God'..."
Verses 53 and 6145 are essentially saying the same thing, however, verse 6121 is saying something different.
Verse 6121 is saying that we cannot eat the meat of an animal that was sacrificed without the name of God being mentioned at the time of its sacrifice.
Whereas verses 53 and 6145 are saying that we cannot eat the meat of an animal that was sacrificed with the name of someone (or something) other than God being mentioned at the time of its sacrifice.
Therefore, as I understand it, there are 2 conditions that are pertinent to the legality of meat according to the Quran
- The name of God must be mentioned at the time of the animal's sacrifice.
- No other name can be mentioned at the time of the animal's sacrifice.
This has 2 implications for Quran-aloners, particularly those of us who are living in the West, namely
- Animals that are mass-reared in factories or farms and that are mechanically sacrificed with no dedication to the name of God preceding their sacrifice are, in my view, prohibited for us to eat. This applies to your average beef burger at McDonalds, your chicken wings at KFC, and to your sirloin steak at Frankie & Bennie's!
- Animals that are sacrificed by Sunni Muslims are sacrificed with a dedication being offered to the name of God ALONE. I have not previously encountered a 'dedication formula' used by Sunni Muslims that uses a name of other than God. Sunnis usually say "Bismillah. Allahu akbar." Therefore, the meat commonly called "halal meat" by Sunnis Muslims is permissible for us to eat. I'm not sure what Jews say before a slaughter, but they must only use the name of God ALONE in order for their meat to be permissible for us to eat. Perhaps someone in the forum can shed light on the exact wording of the Jewish dedication.
It is interesting to note that the Quran does not specify a technique for the slaughter; it doesn't specify that the slaughter has to be by knife, so electrocution is just as permissible. However, the welfare of the animal is a very important consideration in my view. There are opinions out there that consider slaughter by knife at the trachea is the most humane technique of slaughtering an animal because it causes a huge and sudden drop in blood pressure which is likely to send the animal into a comatose state and thus they do not feel the full force of the pain. There are other opinions out there that argue that slaughtering by knife is actually more painful to the animal than electrocution. I am not an expert in physiology so I can't really say which method is more humane.
We must also remember that the Quran specifically allows the use of falcons and dogs to hunt prey (54). I would imagine that falcons and dogs kill their prey before a dedicated sacrifice to the name of God takes place. However, we are still instructed to mention the name of God on the prey that they catch.
We must also remember that God, the Most Gracious, has made an exception to the above-mentioned two rules only where we experience extreme circumstances. The exact circumstances are not elaborated in the Quran except that God says "except that to which you are compelled by necessity." This exception also applies to eating pork in extreme circumstances.
Irrespective of exceptional circumstances and irrespective of the technique of slaughter, the topic at hand is the legality of meat. And it is only with the fulfilment of the above-mentioned two conditions that meat is rendered permissible for us to eat, in my opinion.
I pray that God increases me in guidance, and that He forgives me if I have erred.
-
Salaam Sajda,
Sunni method
"3. To face the slaughter?s neck towards the direction of the Qiblah (i.e direction of prayer-Ka^bah in Makkah) and for the slaughterer to also face his body in the direction of the Qiblah when slaughtering. This practice is in the tradition of Prophet Muhammad as relayed by the two renowned scholars of Islam Al-Bukhariy and Muslim and because the Qiblah is the most honourable direction to face."
http//www.alsunna.org/The-Islamic-Slaughtering-Method-Zabiha.html#gsc.tab=0
"A Zabiha Specialist should know how to face the animals towards the qibla to the best of his/her ability."
http//nemahalal.com/faq/
"The slaughter is to be approved by several religious authorities. Another condition is that when the slaughter is done the animal should be facing Qibla, which is the direction where Mecca is located."
http//www.pakbutchers.co.uk/halal.html
"According to Islamic tradition, the animal is brought to the place of slaughter and laid down gently so as to not injure it. It is Sunnah but not Fard that the head of the animal be facing the Qiblah."
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah
Shia method
"(iii) When an animal is slaughtered, it should be facing Qibla. If the animal is sitting or standing, then facing Qibla would be like a man standing towards Qibla while praying. And if it is lying on its right or left side, then its neck and stomach should be facing Qibla. It is not necessary that its legs, hands and face be towards Qibla. If a person who knows the rule, purposely ignores placing the animal towards Qibla, the animal would become haraam; but if he forgets or does not know the rule, or makes a mistake in ascertaining the Qibla, or does not know the direction of Qibla, or is unable to turn the animal towards Qibla, there is no objection. As a recommended precaution, the person slaughtering should also face Qibla."
http//www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-al-uzma-sayyid-ali-al-husaini-seestani/slaughtering-and-hunting-animals
"2605. If one wants to slaughter a camel so that it becomes Pak and halal after it has died, it is necessary to follow the above mentioned conditions for slaughter and then thrust a knife or any other sharp implement made of iron into the hollow between its neck and chest. It is better that the camel at that time is standing. But if it has knelt down, or if it is lying on its side with its face towards Qibla, the knife etc. can be thrust into the hollow of its neck for slaughtering."
http//islamic-laws.com/tawzeh/256.html
Regards
Salam truthseeker II
Thank you so much for these mind boggling info.
Also please see this
http//www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/03/halal-slaughterhouse-staff-investigated-alleged-animal-cruelty-bowood-lamb-yorkshire
-
Salamun Alaik N00B.
When you reject caramel popcorn with rum is the concern the popcorn will intoxicate you and hinder you from remembrance of Allah; or you thought that the addition of alcohol makes the food "haram"? If you happen to have "accidentally" tried the popcorn, did it intoxicate you to the extent your normal functioning of mind was compromised?
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
ArmanGood question, Arman.
I had thought of posing the same, but I run the risk of confusing my little brain with two topics, dealing with different verses in the same thread simultaneously!
-
Peace "truthseeker"
Salaam Sajda,
Sunni method
"3. To face the slaughter?s neck towards the direction of the Qiblah (i.e direction of prayer-Ka^bah in Makkah) and for the slaughterer to also face his body in the direction of the Qiblah when slaughtering. This practice is in the tradition of Prophet Muhammad as relayed by the two renowned scholars of Islam Al-Bukhariy and Muslim and because the Qiblah is the most honourable direction to face."
http//www.alsunna.org/The-Islamic-Slaughtering-Method-Zabiha.html#gsc.tab=0
"A Zabiha Specialist should know how to face the animals towards the qibla to the best of his/her ability."
http//nemahalal.com/faq/
"The slaughter is to be approved by several religious authorities. Another condition is that when the slaughter is done the animal should be facing Qibla, which is the direction where Mecca is located."
http//www.pakbutchers.co.uk/halal.html
"According to Islamic tradition, the animal is brought to the place of slaughter and laid down gently so as to not injure it. It is Sunnah but not Fard that the head of the animal be facing the Qiblah."
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah
Shia method
"(iii) When an animal is slaughtered, it should be facing Qibla. If the animal is sitting or standing, then facing Qibla would be like a man standing towards Qibla while praying. And if it is lying on its right or left side, then its neck and stomach should be facing Qibla. It is not necessary that its legs, hands and face be towards Qibla. If a person who knows the rule, purposely ignores placing the animal towards Qibla, the animal would become haraam; but if he forgets or does not know the rule, or makes a mistake in ascertaining the Qibla, or does not know the direction of Qibla, or is unable to turn the animal towards Qibla, there is no objection. As a recommended precaution, the person slaughtering should also face Qibla."
http//www.al-islam.org/islamic-laws-ayatullah-al-uzma-sayyid-ali-al-husaini-seestani/slaughtering-and-hunting-animals
"2605. If one wants to slaughter a camel so that it becomes Pak and halal after it has died, it is necessary to follow the above mentioned conditions for slaughter and then thrust a knife or any other sharp implement made of iron into the hollow between its neck and chest. It is better that the camel at that time is standing. But if it has knelt down, or if it is lying on its side with its face towards Qibla, the knife etc. can be thrust into the hollow of its neck for slaughtering."
http//islamic-laws.com/tawzeh/256.html
Regards
I never knew this, and here I was thinking I know it all. Life is full of surprises.
Thank you "truthseeker", I really appreciate all of your responses so far (and everybody else's too!)
Peace. peace
P.S. I'll compile you a list of questions at some point. I just have a particularly hectic ten days ahead of me!