:: How to... Salaat, Saum, Hajj, Zakaat! ::

Man_of_Faith

In my interpretation of Quran, it says those practices are dubious and a distraction.

Be well

mmmm

I think 254 is in favor of Man of Faith's translation of the word q-t-l, with which I also agree.
What is your translation of the word z-b-h in 37102?

Wakas

mmmm, I recommend
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13069.msg273059#msg273059
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602123.0

Man_of_Faith

mmmm,

Za-Ba-Ha means to slay/kill someone.

hicham9

qtl means to kill, slay, or simply put to death.

What is your translation of the word z-b-h in 37102?

db = to slaughter, or sacrifice.

In my dialect, is used in the sense of slitting (the throat).

just my two ?.

SLM

mmmm

Thanks all for answers. I know that since it was seen in a dream it has a metaphorical meaning. I was just wondering if someone knows what exactly Ibrahim did here...I know it was not literal slaughter. But I guess this is for another thread...sorry for posting this here.

mmkhan

mmmm, I recommend
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13069.msg273059#msg273059
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602123.0

Peace brother Wakas,

Interesting!
Thank you for the links.
I like the meaning of QTL in the link given, mashaAllah.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

mmmm

mmmm, I recommend
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13069.msg273059#msg273059
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602123.0

I still don't get it...so he sent his son away? Now I'm thinking maybe that's not the point in the story. The main thing might be that he asked his son for an opinion...

truthseeker11

Peace Hafeez,

Not once did Allah say that remember me in the salat.

This proves that the salat is not for the remembrance of Allah.

What about 2014?

2014 I am allah, there is no ilah except me, so serve me and establish al-salat for my remembrance.

May the infinite creator bless you.

truthseeker11

Peace Man of Faith,

I agree with your translation of "allah". I am getting more and more convinced that "allah" as used in al-quran does not mean "the god" (which implies that it needs to be worshipped) but means "the one who is".

Can you kindly provide me with the Aramaic source for the meaning of "elah"?

The infinite creator (al-khaaliq) and sustainer (rabb) is not needy and does not need any worship.

How can someone worship what he/she is a tiny part of?

For those who believe that the infinite creator is distinct and separate from the creation and the creation is not its tiny part/manifestation, I have a very simple question

Where does your god end and you begin?

2115 And to allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is the face of allah, allah is encompassing, knowledgeable.

If 2115 is true, then "allah" cannot mean "the god", because if it means "the god", then it needs to be worshipped, implying it is a distinct and separate entity from the worshipper, in which case it will not be "wherever you turn", because if you turn to the space occupied by the worshipper's sub atomic particles, it will not be there.

2115 will also negate any worshipping rituals because if you are worshipping allah, you are including yourself also in that worship, because you yourself are a tiny part of allah.

This is why serving allah includes service to others (good deeds), and ya3badoon (5156) has to mean "to serve" and not "to worship".

The concept of "worship" has resulted in all the paganism in the world, including the pagan religion by the proper name "Islam" (capital I) which is nowhere to be found in al-quran. Al-quran guides us towards "islam"/peacemaking (small i) and defines it as "deen"/system/obligation (53) and not as a religion.

May the infinite creator guide us all to the truth.

huruf

Ibrahim has a recurrent dream which he feels has a meaning. It concerns his son, so when his son is old enough to form a judgement, he tells him about his dream and asks him opinion.

The whole scene is far from dramatic, Ibrahim talks to his son in the diminutive, "my dear little son", and the son answers "you will see that I am of the patient ones"

If the question was about sacrificing by slaughtering the son, the answer is wird, when somebody is going to be executed, just like that by his own father, patience does not seem the most required quality but may be stoutness of heart, courage, and again the thing seems amiable and peaceful, no dramatism, just trying to igure out what is required of them, and the both of them aslama, an Ibrahim makes a symbolical move as it would be for a sacrifice, but of course there is no kinfe, nor anything like the thought that he would litterally sacrifice his son, but the key word is "aslamaa", "both of them aslama" both of them put themselves in God's hands. And then God says they have fulfilled the dream.

We may understand this dream as applying to all of us. All of us must sacrifice ourselves and give ourselves up to God, and concenring our children we must always understand they they are not ours, but God's. Ismael was a desired boy, was the fulfillment of his parents longings and he was an excellent boy. It is very common that people cling to their children, especially the good ones as if they were their right or something they would never have to give up. But this scene makes us realise that we must give them up and let God be the one who orders their life, not us our craving or our need. God wioll also take care of us in our children's absence.

Salaam

hicham9

2115 And to allah belong the east and the west, so wherever you turn, there is the face of allah, allah is encompassing, knowledgeable.

Since when does ALLH have a "face"!

To me, denotes The Divine's Presence (not face)!
2115 teachs Omnipresence.

Wakas

I still don't get it...so he sent his son away? Now I'm thinking maybe that's not the point in the story. The main thing might be that he asked his son for an opinion...

My understanding

Abraham dreamt that he was literally slaughtering/sacrificing his son BUT like other visions in Quran it was symbolic of something else, i.e. do not take the dream/vision literally as it represents something else. In this case, leaving his son - this matches perfectly with the story of Abraham as discussed in the link I gave. I recommend re-reading it.

For further information
http//quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=620.msg2264#msg2264

And

Furthermore, in AQ ru'ya/vision/dream is used in only three other instances, that is for Joseph (125, 12100), the King (1243) and Abraham (37102), and it means dream/vision in ALL cases, specifically a vision foretelling a future occurrence/event, and in ALL instances the ru'ya/vision is explained.

From
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-masjid-al-haram-Quran.html

The only weakness that I can see in my understanding is that "dhibh" is used 37107 not in a dream/vision context, meaning it would most likely be used in its literal meaning of "that which is slaughtered / sacrifice / offering", although it could be a play on words which I have seen before in Quran. The core meaning of the root is to split/sever.
In terms of the evidence, I consider my view better weighted than the other options.

hafeez_kazi

peace truthseeker

What about 2014?

2014 I am allah, there is no ilah except me, so serve me and establish al-salat for my remembrance.

How are you so sure that the word means MY REMEMBRANCE?

The word has been mentioned six times in the Quran and the translators have interpreted it as ?MY REMEMBRANCE?. Is this interpretation correct? Let us check it.

Go, you and your brother, with My signs and do not slacken/be negligent/careless in My remembrance/MESSAGE Go, both of you, to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed And speak to him with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear ." They said, "Our Lord, indeed we are afraid that he will hasten against us or that he will transgress said, "Fear not. Indeed, I am with you both; I hear and I see. So go to him and say, 'Indeed, we are messengers of your Lord, so send with us the Children of Israel and do not torment them. We have come to you with a sign from your Lord. And peace will be upon he who follows the guidance (20 42/43/44/45/46)

Moses was assigned a task of delivering His initial MESSAGES to pharaoh to release the children from his captivity and not to torment them. Thus the command was not be careless in His MESSAGE.

Unto those whose eyes had been under a covering from My remembrance /MESSAGE, nor had they been able to hear 18101

Do we remember Allah through eyes and ears?

And whoever TURNS AWAY from My remembrance/MESSAGE - indeed, he will have a depressed life, and We will gather him on the Day of Resurrection blind." (20 124)

Therefore shun those who TURN AWAY from Our MESSAGE and desire nothing but the life of this world. 5329

The turning away is not from the remembrance of Allah but from the MESSAGE of Allah.

Indeed, there was a party of My servants who said, 'Our Lord, we have believed, so forgive us and have mercy upon us, and You are the best of the merciful. But you took them in mockery until they made you to FORGET My remembrance/MESSAGE and you used to laugh at them. (23 109/110)

The disbelievers even in their dream never remembered Allah so the question of remembering Allah does not arise.

They will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for us to take besides You any allies. But You provided comforts for them and their fathers until they FORGOT the MESSAGE and became a people ruined." (Al-Furqaan 1

It was the MESSAGE that they FORGOT?

Has the MESSAGE been revealed to him out of us?" Rather, they are in doubt about My MESSAGE. Rather, they have not yet tasted My punishment. (388

So in the Quran is not My Remembrance but My MESSAGE

Indeed, I am Allah. There is no deity except Me, so SERVE Me and establish/SETUP COMMUNION (intimate communication) for My MESSAGE (20 14)

The command to Moses was to deliver the initial MESSAGES to pharaoh, so how will he deliver it? By means of mobile/email? The only mode of delivering the message was through communion (intimate communication) with pharaoh.

Go to Pharaoh. Indeed, he has transgressed. said, "My Lord, expand for me my breast And ease for me my task And untie the knot from my tongue That they may understand my speech.And appoint for me a minister from my family Aaron, my brother. Increase through him my strength And let him share my task That we may exalt You much And remember You much 2024 to 34

To deliver the MESSAGES of Allah, Moses said to Allah to remove the impediments from his speech so that Pharaoh and his people may understand what he says. Moses also asked to appoint his brother Aaron as his minister who will add to his strength and share his task.

And remember You much TO REMEMBER ALLAH MUCH did MOSES and Aaron establish the salat again and again ?

Think for a moment how Moses understood what salat is, in his first communication with Allah? He never questioned Allah about salat? What Moses recited in his salat? Was Torah revealed when he was commanded to establish salat?

REMEMBER

O you who have believed, remember Allah with much remembrance (Al-Ahzaab 41)

Remembrance of Allah is not at certain times but frequently. Do we need to establish the salat for MUCH REMEMBRANCE of Allah?

Remember Me wherefore, and I shall remember you and unto Me give thanks, and be not ingrate unto Me. (Al-Baqara 152)

But when the prayer is ended, then disperse abroad in the land and seek of Allah's grace, and REMEMBER ALLAH MUCH, that you may be successful. (Al-Jumu'a 10)

Did the believers establish the salat after the FRIDAY PRAYER for REMEMBERING ALLAH MUCH?

And when you have completed the prayer, REMEMBER Allah standing, sitting, or on your sides. But when you become secure, establish prayer. Indeed, prayer has been decreed upon the believers a decree of specified times. (An-Nisaa 103)

Remembrance of Allah AFTER the completion of SALAT? while standing, sitting and lying on sides ? What does this mean? What the believers were doing in their SALAT? JOKING?

Verily in the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day are signs Unto the MEN OF UNDERSTANDING. Who remember Allah while standing or sitting or on their sides and give thought to the creation of the heavens and the earth, , "Our Lord, You did not create this aimlessly; exalted are You ; then protect us from the punishment of the Fire. (Aali Imraan 191)

REMEMBRANCE of Allah is anytime/anywhere/any position.
(is done only by the MEN OF UNDERSTANDING ]

mmkhan

Peace brother kazi,

Will you please translate these two aayaat 2200 and 2236] for me which has the word zikr in them? Thanks.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us on His path pr
mmKhan

hafeez_kazi

PEACE KHAN

Will you please translate these two aayaat for me which has the word zikr in them? Thanks.

AND are same as ? What I wrote is about ZIKRI and not FAZKURULLAH. Use logic.

Instead of concentrating on the six times mentioned and trying to prove me wrong you are asking for translations which has nothing to do with ZIKRI.

Try to translate the six times mentioned ZIKRI as MY REMEMBRANCE and see the result

Indeed, it is We who sent down the remembrance/Message and indeed, We will be its guardian 159

And they say, "O you upon whom the remembrance/Message has been sent down, indeed you are mad. (15 6)

You can only warn one who follows the remembrance/Message and fears the Most Merciful unseen. So give him good tidings of forgiveness and noble reward. (36 11)

Then should We turn the remembrance/Message away, disregarding you, because you are a transgressing people? (43 5)

Could you please translate the above verses because the word ZIKR is in them

mmmm

Ibrahim has a recurrent dream which he feels has a meaning. It concerns his son, so when his son is old enough to form a judgement, he tells him about his dream and asks him opinion.

The whole scene is far from dramatic, Ibrahim talks to his son in the diminutive, "my dear little son", and the son answers "you will see that I am of the patient ones"

If the question was about sacrificing by slaughtering the son, the answer is wird, when somebody is going to be executed, just like that by his own father, patience does not seem the most required quality but may be stoutness of heart, courage, and again the thing seems amiable and peaceful, no dramatism, just trying to igure out what is required of them, and the both of them aslama, an Ibrahim makes a symbolical move as it would be for a sacrifice, but of course there is no kinfe, nor anything like the thought that he would litterally sacrifice his son, but the key word is "aslamaa", "both of them aslama" both of them put themselves in God's hands. And then God says they have fulfilled the dream.

We may understand this dream as applying to all of us. All of us must sacrifice ourselves and give ourselves up to God, and concenring our children we must always understand they they are not ours, but God's. Ismael was a desired boy, was the fulfillment of his parents longings and he was an excellent boy. It is very common that people cling to their children, especially the good ones as if they were their right or something they would never have to give up. But this scene makes us realise that we must give them up and let God be the one who orders their life, not us our craving or our need. God wioll also take care of us in our children's absence.

Salaam

Great post. Thanks.
Selam.

Taro_Hiroshi

Peace Wakas, everyone,

I want to share an interesting post about "Abraham and his son" with you.

Peace brother Ayman,

Thank you for your thought provoking understanding.

How exactly would you explain the complete story of Abraham mentioned in the following signs based on this new understanding ?

37102 And when he grew enough to work with him, he said "My son, I am seeing in a dream that I am sacrificing you. What do you think?" He said "O my father, do what you are commanded to do. You will find me, God willing, patient."
37103 So when they became peaceful, and he pulled him to his forehead.
37104 And We called him "O Abraham,"
37105 "You have believed the vision." It was such that We rewarded the righteous.
37106 Surely, this was an exacting test.
37107 And We ransomed him with a great animal sacrifice.
37108 And We kept his history for those who came later.

Why does The God tell Abraham that he believed the vision when according to the revised interpretation he did not make any attempt to believe the vision and try to sacrifice his son ?

Why did The God ransom him with a great animal sacrifice ? That does not make sense if Abraham did not even try to sacrifice the son and became peaceful instead and pulled him to his forehead ? What was the animal sacrifice for ? For becoming peaceful ??

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13069.msg108174#msg108174

mmkhan