SALAT NOT PHYSICAL???

Wakas

Now i've been reading some articles like on "mypercept" and some on free-minds about how salat isn't physical and still i'm not convinced.

-If salat isn't physical what's the point of ablution then?
-Why God told us the exact time we should pray?(dawn,noon,evening)
-Why God gave us steps on how to salat in the quran?(stand-bow-prostate)
-Why God told us to face the qibla while we do salat?

If someone thinks of salat in terms of physical V spiritual/mental (i.e. its only one or the other), this suggests they have failed to grasp some basics, thus trying to understand a subject, such as "salat", is in my view, likely to be a waste of time.

For example, pretty much all concepts involve both, e.g. "zakat", "hajj", "taqwa", for it is through actions inner beliefs are evidenced.

SuJuD=physical prostration, problems
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/Summary-problems-sujud-prostration-Quran.html

And to face in one direction during salat is a figment of imagination and not found in Quran, this is a fact.

ths

Wakas do you still believe that sujood is completely mental without prostration?

And if so, how is someone supposed to end their prayer with sujood? And how are we meant to perform tasbeeh during and after sujood?

I'd appreciate it if you explained exactly how you perform sujood and indicate that your salah is complete.

I personally perform the salah as according the article I linked to above

JavaLatte

Me too!

Now, I like Salat. I think Salat is wonderful obligation and very useful. Praise be to Allah.

And, in my opinion, to be able to enjoy Salat, we need to understand about complete/total submission to Allah - that a human shouldn't doubt, shouldn't be ashamed, and shouldn't be arrogant to submit himself/herself as a whole (physically, spiritually, mentally) to Allah, glory be to Him.

I think if someone could enjoy submit himself/herself to Allah, then inshaAllah he/she could also enjoy Salat, could understand the benefit of maintaining it, could appreciate it, or even grateful for it.

Brother Hawk, now I shouldn't wonder why you usually seem enthusiastic in supporting Salat!

Peace.

hawk99

Now, I like Salat. I think Salat is wonderful obligation and very useful. Praise be to Allah.

And, in my opinion, to be able to enjoy Salat, we need to understand about complete/total submission to Allah - that a human shouldn't doubt, shouldn't be ashamed, and shouldn't be arrogant to submit himself/herself as a whole (physically, spiritually, mentally) to Allah, glory be to Him.

I think if someone could enjoy submit himself/herself to Allah, then inshaAllah he/she could also enjoy Salat, could understand the benefit of maintaining it, could appreciate it, or even grateful for it.

Brother Hawk, now I shouldn't wonder why you usually seem enthusiastic in supporting Salat!

Peace.

Peace JavaLatte,

Personally I love Allah, taqwa, Islam, believers, salat, fasting the month of Ramadan,
hajj, Quran, wisdom, understanding, truth, science, people and life. That's just me )

God bless

Kikotsu

I want to say something maybe some people missed it

GOD created us as humans and a human is Clay (Physical) and Spirit (Spiritual)

so it's logical to worship and submit to GOD physically and Spiritually )

OH Note Salat physical acts are not pagan (some may refer to Pharaohs prayer) ... but ! the Salat (contact/ritual prayer) according to Quran is not the Salay that most Muslims practice )

JavaLatte

Personally I love Allah

Me too!

https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/b7/fa/5bb7fa2caf418bf0b7839835b1983682.jpg

taqwa, Islam, believers, salat, fasting the month of Ramadan,
hajj, Quran, wisdom, understanding, truth, science, people and life. That's just me

Honestly, I cannot say that I love people, because there are people who I don't like.

I like the true/right deen, taqwa, wisdom, and understanding that comes from Allah.

I like true knowledge, I support the truth (regardless of what today's scientists say).

I like the Qur'an, I think it is great favor from Allah, and I like the true believers,

and regarding life, I prefer the life in the hereafter rather than the life in this world/realm.

May God bless you too, brother Hawk.

Wakas

I have never stated sujud is completely mental without prostration.

Wakas do you still believe that sujood is completely mental without prostration?

And if so, how is someone supposed to end their prayer with sujood? And how are we meant to perform tasbeeh during and after sujood?

I'd appreciate it if you explained exactly how you perform sujood and indicate that your salah is complete.

I personally perform the salah as according the article I linked to above

The answers to your questions can be found here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html

If a leader is upholding it to/for others, then the leader would likely determine when it begins and consequently when it ends. After the leader had finished what they wished to relay of AQ, then it is complete and the audience can respond/leave. If one is receiving information, one would not finish or respond halfway through. If we couple this with what has been said above, we can note that only some of the meanings of SJD could fit, i.e. "...so when they have submitted, worshipped, adored, honoured, paid respect". All refer to the completion of the command (i.e. to uphold the salat), not another act. This finding supports verses such 5039-40 in which the completion of a command (e.g. to SBH) is also referred to as a SJD. We can also see this meaning in 1648-49 when movement of a shadow (i.e. completion of a command) is a SJD.
In other words, in 4102, when they have SJD/submitted/acknowledged = when they have completed the salat. The SJD is the upholding/establishing the salat itself. We can perhaps better explain this using an analogy if I tell a group of students "Please show up for class and then WHEN YOU ARE DONE then you can leave". "When you are done" implies "when you have taken your class". The class could be 10 minutes or an hour, the teacher taking the class will determine when the class ends.

The following is stated under the SJD entry in Lisan al-Arab providing a perfect fit
Translation Anyone who submitted and obeyed what he was commanded has "sajad".

Notes 4102 may be connected with 3121-122. The example of 4102 is the only example of its kind in the entire Quran, i.e. no other prophet/messenger is discussed as having upheld/established/observed a salat in such a manner or with others. Technically, it says "when THEY have SJD" and does not reference the one leading the salat as doing SJD, which fits in with what was discussed.

Please note there is no similar example from Quran, like 4102, for an individual upholding the salat. 4102 is clearly referencing a group.

hawk99

https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/b7/fa/5bb7fa2caf418bf0b7839835b1983682.jpg

Honestly, I cannot say that I love people, because there are people who I don't like.

I agree that I do not "like" all people, but I do love people and wish and hope
for the best for them.

and regarding life, I prefer the life in the hereafter rather than the life in this world/realm.

Thank you JavaLatte for such an important reminder.

I want to say something maybe some people missed it

GOD created us as humans and a human is Clay (Physical) and Spirit (Spiritual)

so it's logical to worship and submit to GOD physically and Spiritually )

OH Note Salat physical acts are not pagan (some may refer to Pharaohs prayer) ... but ! the Salat (contact/ritual prayer) according to Quran is not the Salay that most Muslims practice )

Awesome insight, how about this, standing ,bowing and prostrating
existed before Muhammad. If this practice was pagan or unacceptable
to Allah, why is physical prostration not condemned via Quran?
Instead it is made to appear prohibited and attacked not by Allah but by
humans seeking to prohibit what Allah has not. hmm

God bless

Kikotsu

Awesome insight, how about this, standing ,bowing and prostrating
existed before Muhammad. If this practice was pagan or unacceptable
to Allah, why is physical prostration not condemned via Quran?
Instead it is made to appear prohibited and attacked not by Allah but by
humans seeking to prohibit what Allah has not. hmm

God bless

?Or have they set up 'shuraka'a' (partners) who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision,they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.? 4221

)

may GOD bless you ^_^

Taro_Hiroshi

Peace Kikotsu,

Welcome to the forum.

The verse you quoted is a good reminder and supports the notion of using "Al-Quran" as the ONLY source of law and guidance in islam.

Quran 4221 ?Or have they set up 'shuraka'a' (partners) who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision,they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred painful retribution."

Quran 3923 God has sent down the best hadith, a book that is consistent, relating/contrasting/repeating. The skins of those who revere their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is God's guidance; He guides with it whoever He wills. For whomever God misguides, then none can guide him.

In the verse above, the Quran states that it is the best hadith.

Quran 6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.

Quran 6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.

In the two verses above, the quran states that it is fully detailed and complete (with truth and justice). Therefore, the Quran is the only book only book we need for laws and guidance in our deen.

Quran 456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do they believe?

In the verse above, the quran states that it is the only Hadith we should believe in.

By the way, I would like to share an article and a book with you.

You can read the article in this link

http//rationalreality.50webs.com/hadith.htm

You can download the book from this link

http//www.aididsafar.com/saim.html

In my opinion the above-mentioned article and book are very interesting and inspiring. And when I read them (in the past) they made me think/reflect and reconsider some of my beliefs about islam. I learned a lot from reading the above-mentioned article and book. So I deeply recommend the above-mentioned article and book.

I also recommend reading the old articles on the old free-minds page. In my opinion, there are some very good articles there.

You can read the old Free-minds articles in this link

http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles.htm

ths

You can download the book from this link

http//www.aididsafar.com/saim.html

Aidid Safar is a racist with an inferiority complex who prattles on and on about "the Arab religion" and Arab conspiracies against God

Taro_Hiroshi

Peace ths,

The book I recommended was not written by Aidid Safar. It was written by Saim Bakar (another author). The ONLY reason why I shared a link to Aidid Safar's website, was because I could not find Saim Bakar's book elsewhere. If I could find Saim Bakar's book elsewhere, then I would not share a link to Aidid Safar's website. Saim Bakar's book used to be on the "article section" of the the free-minds website, but for some reason it is no longer there. Keep in mind that I have not said that I support Aidid Safar's views.

It seems that Saim Bakar's book can only be read/downloaded from Aidid Safar's webpage. But if you find another link to Saim Bakar's book, I suggest sharing it with all of us on this thread. And then, perhaps the moderators can delete the link to Aidid Safar's website. But if you can not find another link to Saim Bakar's book, then I think that the link should not be removed/deleted.

I hope this clarifies your issue/concern.

ths

Thank you for the clarification Taro

I don't know anything about Saim Bakar, so I may check out the book.

Peace

Taro_Hiroshi

Thank you for the clarification Taro

I don't know anything about Saim Bakar, so I may check out the book.

Peace

You are welcome

I deeply recommend Saim Bakar's book.

You might find it inspiring and/or useful.

Peace

Kikotsu