SALAT NOT PHYSICAL???
-
Personally I love Allah
Me too!
https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/b7/fa/5bb7fa2caf418bf0b7839835b1983682.jpg
taqwa, Islam, believers, salat, fasting the month of Ramadan,
hajj, Quran, wisdom, understanding, truth, science, people and life. That's just meHonestly, I cannot say that I love people, because there are people who I don't like.
I like the true/right deen, taqwa, wisdom, and understanding that comes from Allah.
I like true knowledge, I support the truth (regardless of what today's scientists say).
I like the Qur'an, I think it is great favor from Allah, and I like the true believers,
and regarding life, I prefer the life in the hereafter rather than the life in this world/realm.
May God bless you too, brother Hawk.
-
I have never stated sujud is completely mental without prostration.
Wakas do you still believe that sujood is completely mental without prostration?
And if so, how is someone supposed to end their prayer with sujood? And how are we meant to perform tasbeeh during and after sujood?
I'd appreciate it if you explained exactly how you perform sujood and indicate that your salah is complete.
I personally perform the salah as according the article I linked to above
The answers to your questions can be found here
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-of-SuJuD-from-Quran.html
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.htmlIf a leader is upholding it to/for others, then the leader would likely determine when it begins and consequently when it ends. After the leader had finished what they wished to relay of AQ, then it is complete and the audience can respond/leave. If one is receiving information, one would not finish or respond halfway through. If we couple this with what has been said above, we can note that only some of the meanings of SJD could fit, i.e. "...so when they have submitted, worshipped, adored, honoured, paid respect". All refer to the completion of the command (i.e. to uphold the salat), not another act. This finding supports verses such 5039-40 in which the completion of a command (e.g. to SBH) is also referred to as a SJD. We can also see this meaning in 1648-49 when movement of a shadow (i.e. completion of a command) is a SJD.
In other words, in 4102, when they have SJD/submitted/acknowledged = when they have completed the salat. The SJD is the upholding/establishing the salat itself. We can perhaps better explain this using an analogy if I tell a group of students "Please show up for class and then WHEN YOU ARE DONE then you can leave". "When you are done" implies "when you have taken your class". The class could be 10 minutes or an hour, the teacher taking the class will determine when the class ends.The following is stated under the SJD entry in Lisan al-Arab providing a perfect fit
Translation Anyone who submitted and obeyed what he was commanded has "sajad".Notes 4102 may be connected with 3121-122. The example of 4102 is the only example of its kind in the entire Quran, i.e. no other prophet/messenger is discussed as having upheld/established/observed a salat in such a manner or with others. Technically, it says "when THEY have SJD" and does not reference the one leading the salat as doing SJD, which fits in with what was discussed.
Please note there is no similar example from Quran, like 4102, for an individual upholding the salat. 4102 is clearly referencing a group.
-
https//s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/5b/b7/fa/5bb7fa2caf418bf0b7839835b1983682.jpg
Honestly, I cannot say that I love people, because there are people who I don't like.
I agree that I do not "like" all people, but I do love people and wish and hope
for the best for them.and regarding life, I prefer the life in the hereafter rather than the life in this world/realm.
Thank you JavaLatte for such an important reminder.
I want to say something maybe some people missed it
GOD created us as humans and a human is Clay (Physical) and Spirit (Spiritual)
so it's logical to worship and submit to GOD physically and Spiritually )
OH Note Salat physical acts are not pagan (some may refer to Pharaohs prayer) ... but ! the Salat (contact/ritual prayer) according to Quran is not the Salay that most Muslims practice )
Awesome insight, how about this, standing ,bowing and prostrating
existed before Muhammad. If this practice was pagan or unacceptable
to Allah, why is physical prostration not condemned via Quran?
Instead it is made to appear prohibited and attacked not by Allah but by
humans seeking to prohibit what Allah has not. hmmGod bless
-
Awesome insight, how about this, standing ,bowing and prostrating
existed before Muhammad. If this practice was pagan or unacceptable
to Allah, why is physical prostration not condemned via Quran?
Instead it is made to appear prohibited and attacked not by Allah but by
humans seeking to prohibit what Allah has not. hmmGod bless
?Or have they set up 'shuraka'a' (partners) who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision,they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.? 4221
)
may GOD bless you ^_^
-
Peace Kikotsu,
Welcome to the forum.
The verse you quoted is a good reminder and supports the notion of using "Al-Quran" as the ONLY source of law and guidance in islam.
Quran 4221 ?Or have they set up 'shuraka'a' (partners) who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision,they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred painful retribution."
Quran 3923 God has sent down the best hadith, a book that is consistent, relating/contrasting/repeating. The skins of those who revere their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is God's guidance; He guides with it whoever He wills. For whomever God misguides, then none can guide him.
In the verse above, the Quran states that it is the best hadith.
Quran 6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
Quran 6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
In the two verses above, the quran states that it is fully detailed and complete (with truth and justice). Therefore, the Quran is the only book only book we need for laws and guidance in our deen.
Quran 456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do they believe?
In the verse above, the quran states that it is the only Hadith we should believe in.
By the way, I would like to share an article and a book with you.
You can read the article in this link
http//rationalreality.50webs.com/hadith.htm
You can download the book from this link
http//www.aididsafar.com/saim.html
In my opinion the above-mentioned article and book are very interesting and inspiring. And when I read them (in the past) they made me think/reflect and reconsider some of my beliefs about islam. I learned a lot from reading the above-mentioned article and book. So I deeply recommend the above-mentioned article and book.
I also recommend reading the old articles on the old free-minds page. In my opinion, there are some very good articles there.
You can read the old Free-minds articles in this link
http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles.htm
-
Peace ths,
The book I recommended was not written by Aidid Safar. It was written by Saim Bakar (another author). The ONLY reason why I shared a link to Aidid Safar's website, was because I could not find Saim Bakar's book elsewhere. If I could find Saim Bakar's book elsewhere, then I would not share a link to Aidid Safar's website. Saim Bakar's book used to be on the "article section" of the the free-minds website, but for some reason it is no longer there. Keep in mind that I have not said that I support Aidid Safar's views.
It seems that Saim Bakar's book can only be read/downloaded from Aidid Safar's webpage. But if you find another link to Saim Bakar's book, I suggest sharing it with all of us on this thread. And then, perhaps the moderators can delete the link to Aidid Safar's website. But if you can not find another link to Saim Bakar's book, then I think that the link should not be removed/deleted.
I hope this clarifies your issue/concern.
-
Thank you for the clarification Taro
I don't know anything about Saim Bakar, so I may check out the book.
Peace
You are welcome
I deeply recommend Saim Bakar's book.
You might find it inspiring and/or useful.
Peace
-
Peace Kikotsu,
Welcome to the forum.
The verse you quoted is a good reminder and supports the notion of using "Al-Quran" as the ONLY source of law and guidance in islam.
Quran 4221 ?Or have they set up 'shuraka'a' (partners) who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision,they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred painful retribution."
Quran 3923 God has sent down the best hadith, a book that is consistent, relating/contrasting/repeating. The skins of those who revere their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is God's guidance; He guides with it whoever He wills. For whomever God misguides, then none can guide him.
In the verse above, the Quran states that it is the best hadith.
Quran 6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
Quran 6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
In the two verses above, the quran states that it is fully detailed and complete (with truth and justice). Therefore, the Quran is the only book only book we need for laws and guidance in our deen.
Quran 456 These are the revelations of God, We recite them to you with the truth. So, in which narrative (hadith) after God and His revelations do they believe?
In the verse above, the quran states that it is the only Hadith we should believe in.
By the way, I would like to share an article and a book with you.
You can read the article in this link
http//rationalreality.50webs.com/hadith.htm
You can download the book from this link
http//www.aididsafar.com/saim.html
In my opinion the above-mentioned article and book are very interesting and inspiring. And when I read them (in the past) they made me think/reflect and reconsider some of my beliefs about islam. I learned a lot from reading the above-mentioned article and book. So I deeply recommend the above-mentioned article and book.
I also recommend reading the old articles on the old free-minds page. In my opinion, there are some very good articles there.
You can read the old Free-minds articles in this link
http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles.htm
Thank you very much I'll read them insha'Allah
-
if salat isn't physical why were we told to pray in monotone voice, it still kinda bugs me
-
Peace kamenriderkiki,
That is a good/intelligent question. And you are right when you say that we are told to do/perform Salat with a monotone voice. Because in verse 17110, the Quran states that we must use a monotone voice when we are doing/performing Salat. But let me ask you a few questions. Can you only use a monotone voice when you are doing/performing physical prayer? Or is there a possibility that you can use a monotone voice when you are doing/performing other physical activities as well? If, for example, you are using your voice when reading the Quran, can you use your voice in a monotone way, when you are doing/performing this activity?
-
Peace kamenriderkiki,
There was an error in my last post.
Let me reformulate what I said
That is a good/intelligent question. And you are right when you say that we are told to do/perform Salat with a monotone voice. Because in verse 17110, the Quran states that we must use a monotone voice when we are doing/performing Salat. But let me ask you a few questions. Can you only use a monotone voice when you are doing/performing physical prayer? Or is there a possibility that you can use a monotone voice when you are doing/performing other activities as well? If, for example, you are using your voice when reading the Quran, can you use your voice in a monotone way, when you are doing/performing this activity?
-
Peace kamenriderkiki,
There was an error in my last post.
Let me reformulate what I said
That is a good/intelligent question. And you are right when you say that we are told to do/perform Salat with a monotone voice. Because in verse 17110, the Quran states that we must use a monotone voice when we are doing/performing Salat. But let me ask you a few questions. Can you only use a monotone voice when you are doing/performing physical prayer? Or is there a possibility that you can use a monotone voice when you are doing/performing other activities as well? If, for example, you are using your voice when reading the Quran, can you use your voice in a monotone way, when you are doing/performing this activity?
Good point there taro, but what's bugging me is that god told us to recite a surah from the quran if shalat is not physical why god told us we need to recite one of his surah while we're doing a righteous activity
-
I did not say that Salat is physical or non-physical/mental (in my post).
You were the one who suggested that Salat is physical in your post
if salat isn't physical why were we told to pray in monotone voice, it still kinda bugs me
And then you wrote
Good point there taro, but what's bugging me is that god told us to recite a surah from the quran if shalat is not physical why god told us we need to recite one of his surah while we're doing a righteous activity
Can you show me which verse that states that we need to recite one of the Quranic surah while we are doing a righteous activity?
-
I did not say that Salat is physical or non-physical/mental (in my post).
You were the one who suggested that Salat is physical in your post
if salat isn't physical why were we told to pray in monotone voice, it still kinda bugs me
And then you wrote
Can you show me which verse that states that we need to recite one of the Quranic surah while we are doing a righteous activity?
I did not say that Salat is physical or non-physical/mental (in my post).
okay my mistake, forgot that the quran doesn't specify, got the idea from quran-islam, but if i may ask how do you do your own salat if you never said salat is either physical or non-physical?
-
okay my mistake, forgot that the quran doesn't specify, got the idea from quran-islam, but if i may ask how do you do your own salat if you never said salat is either physical or non-physical?
As far as I know, it is not important to know how others do their Salat. In my view, it is not important to know how I do Salat or how many times a day I do Salat . In my view, what is important is how you do Salat and how many times a day you do Salat. In my opinion, it is not important to know what I do or what other believers do. But I think that what is important is what you do and what God wants you to do. From my understanding of the Quran, the aim of true Islam is to follow God alone. And I think one can only follow God alone, by reading/studying/learning the teachings of the Quran. Because the Quran seems to be the only book that contains the words and the message of God. And I believe in all of it. If we follow what other muslims say they do (in regards to Salat), then I think that we will end up following the words of men instead of the words of God.
Quran 1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, eyesight, and heart - all these you are responsible for.
Quran 3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
Quran 6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
Quran 6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
Quran 3127 And if all the trees on the earth were made into pens, and the ocean were supplied by seven more oceans, the words of God would not run out. God is Noble, Wise.
Quran 1745-46 And when you read the Qur'an, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier. And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
-
As far as I know, it is not important to know how others do their Salat.
Please be patient, brother.
I think it could be important IF they're indeed the true believers (e.g. if the person who ask and the person who is asked are the believers).
If we're truly believers, then I think we should not hide/conceal what we believe from the other believers.
Please ponder this... if someone sincerely ask to you to know about what you believe, or about how you perform salat, then whether is it righteous if you refuse to give the answer?
I don't think that all of the members here are always sincere with their questions.
However, what I disagree is this kind of statement "it is not important to know what other believers do"
Among the contents of the Qur'an are the information/explanations about the things that have been done by the prophets, the messengers, and the believers, those are good lessons & good examples for us, thus it is important to know what other believers do.
In any case, I'm sorry if what I wrote is unpleasant to you. I don't intend to disrespect you, brother Hiroshi.
If we follow what other muslims say they do (in regards to Salat), then I think that we will end up following the words of men instead of the words of God.
If I remove that word ("muslims", then I agree with the above statement.
Peace and regards.
-
As far as I know, it is not important to know how others do their Salat. In my view, it is not important to know how I do Salat or how many times a day I do Salat . In my view, what is important is how you do Salat and how many times a day you do Salat. In my opinion, it is not important to know what I do or what other believers do. But I think that what is important is what you do and what God wants you to do. From my understanding of the Quran, the aim of true Islam is to follow God alone. And I think one can only follow God alone, by reading/studying/learning the teachings of the Quran. Because the Quran seems to be the only book that contains the words and the message of God. And I believe in all of it. If we follow what other muslims say they do (in regards to Salat), then I think that we will end up following the words of men instead of the words of God.
Quran 1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of; for the hearing, eyesight, and heart - all these you are responsible for.
Quran 3918 The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
Quran 6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you the Book fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Book know it is sent down from your Lord with the truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
Quran 6115 And the word of your Lord has been completed with truth and justice; there is no changing His words. He is the Hearer, the Knower.
Quran 3127 And if all the trees on the earth were made into pens, and the ocean were supplied by seven more oceans, the words of God would not run out. God is Noble, Wise.
Quran 1745-46 And when you read the Qur'an, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier. And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
it is not important to know how others do their Salat. In my view, it is not important to know how I do Salat or how many times a day I do Salat
in your post about the meaning of salat
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606711.0Sujud not physical prostrarion,
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606706.msg354418#msg354418You stated that salat in your post does not necessarily mean ritual prayer or sujud doesn't really mean physical prostration because of verse 2218 states that the sun and moon prostrates to god
Then you said
I did not say that Salat is physical or non-physical/mental (in my post)
But taro would you kindly share to us on how you do your salat, won't hurt sharing a little info would it? Just an example, don't be shy i don't know your true identity or where you live
