The devil as soulmate and sexual allies
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"afflict" then "removes from them their garments to show them their bodies" .
Could it be the reason that Allah prohibits marriages between believers and the disbelievers, ie. the devils as sexual allies ?
Thank you Comrox.
You're welcome Fritz. )
I don't see why you're associating disbelievers with sexual devils?
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Because God doesn't use circular reasoning and states truth based on omniscience.
I believe here God make equal marriage to adultery, and prohibit the believers from such marriages.
The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress , she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.
It is either marriage or adultery.
and it is not only mental exposure, but body exposure.
If it is about "mental exposure",
Personally, I believe it's about mental exposure. Human exposure.
Then why Allah prohibiting marriages between believers and disbelievers? body exposure.
Perhaps there are more than mental exposure?
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfdcx7TZabg&t=0m31s
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Maybe this is happening to those who ignore the revelations of Allah.
https//c5.staticflickr.com/8/7105/26910960364_8df3ffcda5_o.jpg
A curse from Allah.
Do those who commit sins think they can fool Us? Terrible is their opinion!
Believers
By your Lord, they will not be believers until they make you (Quran) judge in what they dispute with each other, then they will not find in their souls any animosity for what you have decided, and they will yield completely.
Disbelievers
None dispute in the revelations of God except those who have rejected. So do not be impressed by their influence in the land.
Those who rejected God and His messengers , and they want to make a separation between God and His messengers , and they say "We believe in some and reject some !" And they desire to take a path in-between . These are the true rejecters.
Is this possible?
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Too much sex in viions of the garden and the expulsion from it.
In the garden the adam who are being expelled is not just a couple, dressed or undressed, but many people. Look at aya 24
(Allah) said "Get ye down. Enemies of each other on earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time."
This "get down" and all the formulation that follows is in plural, not dual but plural and the number of people must be such that there can be sets of number of enemies on each sides.
Other than that, this whole scene is contrivedly sexed up. Why is everything made as if there was a question of nudity and sex in it?
In one translation it is said that God bestowed raiment upon them to cover their shame, but in fact it is misleading, what it says is
Oh children of adam we descended (anzalna, that is, the verb used to transmit revelation) the clothing to cover your bad deeds and make you look good, and the best of clothings is God-consciousness.
This God-consciousness is not obviously a matter of dress, but as always in the case of revelation, is a mater of morals and conscience, something which would make this people different from previous bashar without the ruh.
At not time it is said that their sexual organs were showing.
If you look at the occurrence of l-b-s, as verb or name in the Qur'an you will see that it is not necessarily material dressing or clothing, but it means also to cover things, obscure matters, confuse, non physical images self, the kind of person we appear to be.
God revealed (anzala) to those people who started to be human the elements of morals, of conscience, that is, their libaas, their garment.
"Traditionalists" are too taken up in the classical sexed-up narration of the garden as derived from the bible which is like a horror fairy tale. But if we manage to read the Qur'an forgetting all that previous conditioning, we may realise that what it tells is something different from that and rather logicaland consistent with the whole of Qur'an.
Salaam
Salaam
Selam,
i see you have done some research about the Adam and Eve story. What is your view and how would you explain these verses about Adam and Eve?
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Because God doesn't use circular reasoning and states truth based on omniscience.
I believe here God make equal marriage to adultery, and prohibit the believers from such marriages.
It is either marriage or adultery.
and it is not only mental exposure, but body exposure.
If it is about "mental exposure",
Then why Allah prohibiting marriages between believers and disbelievers? body exposure.
I disagree with you. It is my understanding that Allah prohibits marriage between believers and disbelievers because the disbelievers at the time were those who
- Pretended to be allies and believers to be close to the believers themselves, so they lied a lot it seems, and were never truthful with them
- Believed in God but refused to believe in the "new" scripture that was coming to them, despite believing in the "old" scripture
- Wanted to drive the believers out of their homes and plotted against them
- Had wealth and children, and thought those would evaluate their status in this world and with God (we have stories in Qur'an of people abusing their wealth, hoarding it, and thinking too much about worldly matters and possessions)
I do know that I have read about all of these attributes of disbelievers in the Qur'an. I'm not citing verses for them as it would take some time but I will if you ask. )
So, given all of those attributes, I believe that's why marriage is prohibited. These people weren't good people. All the actions of these disbelievers have to be considered. Today, the practice continues because people don't want to be with someone who has a vastly different religious background. (Although there is no such thing as religion in Qur'an, it still may be very difficult if someone is very God-centered and their partner is not.)
Maybe this is happening to those who ignore the revelations of Allah.
https//c5.staticflickr.com/8/7105/26910960364_8df3ffcda5_o.jpg
Is that a devil having sex with a human? ??? (On closer examination, it looks more like rape to me, honestly.)
A curse from Allah.
Do those who commit sins think they can fool Us? Terrible is their opinion!
Believers
By your Lord, they will not be believers until they make you (Quran) judge in what they dispute with each other, then they will not find in their souls any animosity for what you have decided, and they will yield completely.
Disbelievers
None dispute in the revelations of God except those who have rejected. So do not be impressed by their influence in the land.
Those who rejected God and His messengers , and they want to make a separation between God and His messengers , and they say "We believe in some and reject some !" And they desire to take a path in-between . These are the true rejecters.
Is this possible?
I don't agree with your conclusions that the devil or devils have any sexual relationship with us. In your interpretation it may be possible, but I don't believe that Qur'an supports this line of thinking.
But alas, we may all believe as we wish. )
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I disagree with you. It is my understanding that Allah prohibits marriage between believers and disbelievers because the disbelievers at the time were those who
- Pretended to be allies and believers to be close to the believers themselves, so they lied a lot it seems, and were never truthful with them
- Believed in God but refused to believe in the "new" scripture that was coming to them, despite believing in the "old" scripture
- Wanted to drive the believers out of their homes and plotted against them
- Had wealth and children, and thought those would evaluate their status in this world and with God (we have stories in Qur'an of people abusing their wealth, hoarding it, and thinking too much about worldly matters and possessions)
I do know that I have read about all of these attributes of believers in the Qur'an. I'm not citing verses for them as it would take some time but I will if you ask. )
So, given all of those attributes, I believe that's why marriage is prohibited. These people weren't good people. All the actions of these disbelievers have to be considered. Today, the practice continues because people don't want to be with someone who has a vastly different religious background. (Although there is no such thing as religion in Qur'an, it still may be very difficult if someone is very God-centered and their partner is not.)
Is that a devil having sex with a human? ??? (On closer examination, it looks more like rape to me, honestly.)
I don't agree with your conclusions that the devil or devils have any sexual relationship with us. In your interpretation it may be possible, but I don't believe that Qur'an supports the line of thinking.
But alas, we may all believe as we wish. )
I Think you are right
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Selam,
i see you have done some research about the Adam and Eve story. What is your view and how would you explain these verses about Adam and Eve?
There is o Adam and Eve in the Qur'an there is adam and his or her mate.Adam is the new human which was one entity and from it his or her mate are created. The adamand Eve is from a part of the bible not from Qur'an, and they are ot a single person or single couple, as can be seen from the ayas, there is a collectivity at least not oneperson or two persons.
The creation of the couple could be ss that of all mammals going back in the history of species or, as have theorized some mulim historians centuries ago, from a humanoid who might have bene hermafrodite and then the sexes were split.
I tend to believe tht the split was at the level of all the mammals in which it is obvious that there are the vestiges of the sexual trait of the other sex in both sexes. That is, the mate is not created by developping new traits but by suppressing some of those traits that were altogether in the original species.
Salaam
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Allah prohibits marriage between believers and disbelievers because the disbelievers at the time were those who
I believe the reason does not explain because the prohibitions apply to all human beings, good or evil people, and forever. There is no exception to it.
I don't believe that Qur'an supports this line of thinking.
It did and the word used is "adulterer" and "adulteress".
The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress , she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.
Thank you.
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There is o Adam and Eve in the Qur'an there is adam and his or her mate.Adam is the new human which was one entity and from it his or her mate are created. The adamand Eve is from a part of the bible not from Qur'an, and they are ot a single person or single couple, as can be seen from the ayas, there is a collectivity at least not oneperson or two persons.
The creation of the couple could be ss that of all mammals going back in the history of species or, as have theorized some mulim historians centuries ago, from a humanoid who might have bene hermafrodite and then the sexes were split.
I tend to believe tht the split was at the level of all the mammals in which it is obvious that there are the vestiges of the sexual trait of the other sex in both sexes. That is, the mate is not created by developping new traits but by suppressing some of those traits that were altogether in the original species.
Salaam
Selam,
very interesting view, thanks for sharing.
How do you know for sure that it is not about one person and about a group? Did i understand it right, Adam represents more than one human? When i think about it is logic, it can not have been only Adam en Eve, then there would have been incest when their children got older.
Peace
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I believe the reason does not explain because the prohibitions apply to all human beings, good or evil people, and forever. There is no exception to it.
Even so, I feel Qur'an defines disbelievers in that way. So we're meant to avoid marrying disbelievers who are like this. Logically it makes sense too... no one would want to be involved with someone who is a constant liar while plotting against them.
Wait a second, we're still talking about 243 right? I think somewhere in this conversation I got confused. Which verses regarding marriage are you talking about?
It did and the word used is "adulterer" and "adulteress".
The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress , she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.
Thank you.
My statement "I don't believe that Qur'an supports this line of thinking" wasn't towards what kind of marriage is lawful or not lawful. That statement was addressing possible sexual relationships with devils.
Peace. ) peace
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A explained in previou messages aya 7.24 indicates those expelled from the gardn was a community, see those messages.
alaam
Selam, thank you for replying i will read this ayet again, i did not know that it says that there was a community
Peace
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All the time in the allegory dual is used and then, here 724 "You (plural now) are enemies to one another, and for you (plural again) in Earth residence and provisions untill the appointed time" and so on in the next ones.
It's explaining the beguining of homo sapiens, current human beings.
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Wait a second, we're still talking about 243 right? I think somewhere in this conversation I got confused. Which verses regarding marriage are you talking about?
Yes..
And do not marry the female polytheists until they believe; for a believing servant is better than a polytheist, even if she is pleasing to you. And do not give in marriage to the male polytheists until they believe; for a believing servant is better than a polytheist, even if he is pleasing you. These invite to the Fire, while God is inviting to Paradise and forgiveness by His consent. He clarifies His revelations for the people that they may remember.
The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress , she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.
That statement was addressing possible sexual relationships with devils.
This to prove that it is not merely "mental exposure", but "body exposure."
Because God doesn't use circular reasoning and states truth based on omniscience.
The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or she who is a polytheist. And the adulteress , she will only be married to an adulterer or he who is a polytheist. And such has been made forbidden for the believers.
I believe here God make equal marriage to adultery, and prohibit the believers from such marriages.
It is either marriage or adultery.
and it is not only mental exposure, but body exposure.
Personally, I believe it's about mental exposure.
If it is about "mental exposure",
Then why Allah prohibiting marriages between believers and disbelievers? body exposure.
Perhaps there are more than mental exposure?
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sfdcx7TZabg&t=0m31s
Peace. ) peace
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All the time in the allegory dual is used and then, here 724 "You (plural now) are enemies to one another, and for you (plural again) in Earth residence and provisions untill the appointed time" and so on in the next ones.
It's explaining the beguining of homo sapiens, current human beings.
Selam virginia,
So the Adam and Eve story is about a community? Like brother Huruf said, do you share his view?
Peace
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Like brother Huruf said
rotfl
hururf is sister, i think
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Of course
Salam, and sorry for the delay
thank you, i will look in to it, it makes a lot of sense that this is a community. I am now investigating ramadan, when i am ready with ramadan i will look into the Adam and Eve story Peace
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thank you, i will look in to it, it makes a lot of sense that this is a community. I am now investigating ramadan, when i am ready with ramadan i will look into the Adam and Eve story Peace
Don't miss it! It will blow up your mind when you come to the conclusion that the "the two sons of Adam" are also a stage in the Human evolutionary history or, at least, a community.
(Please post when you are done with your ramadan researching, @The Guided one)