The proof of 3 Salat in Quran

The_Guided_One

Salam TGO, the dua is ayat 1780.

http//corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=17&verse=80

Peace.

Selam hanslan,

also 17>81 and 17>108 and 17>111

Peace

The_Guided_One

Maghreb, meaning ?West? (a reference to the Arabic-speaking countries in the west of North Africa). Maghreb is an Arabic term literally meaning ?place of setting (of the sun)?, and hence ?West.? It derives from the root ghuroob, meaning ?to set? or ?to be hidden?

018086
"Until when he reached the setting of the sun (Arabic Maghriba-l-shams)"

Do you mean this means, till he reached the west?

Asad till, when he came to the setting of the sun, 84 it appeared to him that it was setting in a dark, turbid sea; 85 and nearby he found a people . We said "O thou Two-Horned One! Thou mayest either cause to suffer or treat them with kindness!" 86
Malik till he reached the end of the land and the start of an ocean, where the Sun was setting, he noted that it was setting in a mucky spring and found by it a people. We said "O Zul-Qarnain! You have the option to either punish them or to show them kindness".
Pickthall Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout We said O Dhul-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Yusuf Ali Until when he reached the setting of the sun He found it set in a spring of murky water near it he found a People We said "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority) either to punish them or to treat them with kindness." 2430 2431
Transliteration Hatta itha balagha maghriba alshshamsi wajadaha taghrubu fee AAaynin hamiatin wawajada AAindaha qawman qulna ya tha alqarnayni imma an tuAAaththiba waimma an tattakhitha feehim husnan

on this site we can read http//quransmessage.com/articles/fasting%20till%20night%20FM3.htm

The Quran makes use of the word 'layl' as a word well known to the Arabs to describe a particular part (s) of the complete day. A gradual movement into the night is certainly implied by the Quran which we will note later in the article. However, it is to be noted that at no place in the Quran is 'layl' (night) synonymous with sunset. In fact, descriptions of sunset are clearly expressed by the Quran in Arabic.

018086
"Until when he reached the setting of the sun (Arabic Maghriba-l-shams)"

The word 'maghriba' comes from its root word 'Ghurub' (G-R-B) which inherently means to retire, to depart, to be hidden from view or to be absent. Used along with 'shams' (sun) it refers to sunset, or the west which is clearly the setting place of the sun.

Verse 2187 does not instruct believers to fast until the 'ghurub' of the 'shams' (setting of the sun). Rather, it informs believers to fast till 'layl' (night).

In another verse, we note the following expression

017078 (part)
?Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline (Arabic Duluk-e-Shams) till the darkness of the night..."

Opinions on this expression are divided, but it is important to note the possible relationship with sunset.

Dhuluk = Dal-Lam-Kaf = rubbing, squeezing, pressing, decline, sinking, become red, set, incline downwards from the meridian (sun).

Source Edward Lanes Lexicon

In another verse of the Quran we note the expression 'shafaq' as a twilight glow in the evening after sunset. It is interesting to note that 'layl' (night) is somewhat separated from 'shafaq' but nevertheless, is a process which gradually occurs.

08416-17
"But nay! I swear by the sunset redness / twilight glow (Arabic bil-shafaq), And the night (Arabic al-layl) and that which it drives on"

The Quran has also clearly cited the term 'ghurub' to denote sunset (20130 and 5039) in other verses of the Quran.

020130
"...before the rising of the sun, and before its setting (Arabic ghurubiha)"

050039
...before the rising of the sun and before the setting (Arabic ghurubiha)"

As the term 'ghurub' is well known to the Quran, it could have used such a term clearly to denote the ending of the fasting period without any ambiguity. However, it simply did not. Instead, it used the word 'layl' (night) to describe the period of the fast's end.

Wakas

peace TGO,

layl is real simple to understand

"sun/shams" is a feminine noun. "brightness/duha" is a masculine noun. Thus

By the sun and its brightness.
And the moon that follows it.
And the "nahar" (day) that reveals it.
And the "layl" (night) that covers it.

The_Guided_One

peace TGO,

layl is real simple to understand

"sun/shams" is a feminine noun. "brightness/duha" is a masculine noun. Thus

By the sun and its brightness.
And the moon that follows it.
And the "nahar" (day) that reveals it.
And the "layl" (night) that covers it.

Selam Wakas,

i understand that night is layl, what i do not understand is maghrib and it could mean west

i also understand that we should fast till darkness and not till sunset

Peace

Wakas

i also understand that we should fast till darkness...

Which Quran verse says that?

The_Guided_One

Which Quran verse says that?

surah 2187

Pickthall It is made lawful for you to go unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelations to mankind that they may ward off (evil).
Asad IT IS lawful for you to go in unto your wives during the night preceding the fast they are as a garment for you, and you are as a garment for them. God is aware that you would have deprived yourselves of this right, 159 and so He has turned unto you in His mercy and removed this hardship from you. Now, then, you may lie with them skin to skin, and avail yourselves of that which God has ordained for you, 160 and eat and drink until you can discern the white streak of dawn against the blackness of night, 161 and then resume fasting until nightfall; but do not lie with them skin to skin when you are about to abide in meditation in houses of worship. 162 These are the bounds set by God do not, then, offend against them - it is thus that God makes clear His messages unto mankind, so that they might remain conscious of Him.
Malik It is made lawful for you to approach your wives during the night of the fast; they are an apparel for you and you for them. Allah knows that you were committing dishonesty to your souls. So He has relented towards you and pardoned you. Now, you may approach your wives and seek what Allah has written for you. Eat and drink until the white thread of dawn appears to you distinct from the black thread of night, then complete your fast till nightfall. Do not approach your wives during I'htikaf (retreat in the mosques in last ten days of Ramadhan). These are the limits set by Allah do not ever violate them. Thus Allah makes His revelations clear to mankind so that they may guard themselves against evil.
Yusuf Ali Permitted to you on the night of the fasts is the approach to your wives. They are your garments. And ye are their garments. Allah knoweth what ye used to do secretly among yourselves; but He turned to you and forgave you; so now associate with them and seek what Allah hath ordained for you and eat and drink until the white thread of dawn appear to you distinct from its black thread; then complete your fast till the night appears; but do not associate with your wives while ye are in retreat in the mosques. Those are limits (set by) Allah; approach not nigh thereto. Thus doth Allah make clear His signs to men that they may learn self-restraint. 195 196 197 198 199 200
Transliteration Ohilla lakum laylata alssiyami alrrafathu ila nisaikum hunna libasun lakum waantum libasun lahunna AAalima Allahu annakum kuntum takhtanoona anfusakum fataba AAalaykum waAAafa AAankum faalana bashiroohunna waibtaghoo ma kataba Allahu lakum wakuloo waishraboo hatta yatabayyana lakumu alkhaytu alabyadu mina alkhayti alaswadi mina alfajri thumma atimmoo alssiyama ila allayli wala tubashiroohunna waantum AAakifoona fee almasajidi tilka hudoodu Allahi fala taqrabooha kathalika yubayyinu Allahu ayatihi lilnnasi laAAallahum yattaqoona

Wakas

surah 2187

Which Arabic word are you referring to in 2187?

The_Guided_One

Which Arabic word are you referring to in 2187?

brother you are a arab speaking Muslim, you should know better than me which word, i believe it is ila allayli

Wakas

peace TGO,
I speak very little Arabic, but in any case, according to you

layl = darkness

1778 Uphold the salat at the setting of the sun until the darkness of the layl/darkness...

3637 A sign for them is the layl/darkness, We remove the daytime from it/darkness, whereupon they are those in darkness.

Weird.

In my view you're clearly wrong.

Each to their own.

imrankhawaja

peace TGO,
I speak very little Arabic, but in any case, according to you

layl = darkness

1778 Uphold the salat at the setting of the sun until the darkness of the layl/darkness...

3637 A sign for them is the layl/darkness, We remove the daytime from it/darkness, whereupon they are those in darkness.

Weird.

In my view you're clearly wrong.

Each to their own.

eaxactly.. yeah

God bless you brother wakas,,

and we always find your reasoning very logical and TRUE

The_Guided_One

peace TGO,

In my view you're clearly wrong.

Selam Wakas, i know that nahar is day and layl is night and i posted this, so i am not wrong,you misunderstood

Selam Wakas,

i understand that night is layl, what i do not understand is maghrib and it could mean west

i also understand that we should fast till darkness and not till sunset

Peace

But i do have a question about isha prayer, if isha is night prayer, is this is referring to a prayer deep in the night or after sunset?

Peace

Wakas

But i do have a question about isha prayer, if isha is night prayer, is this is referring to a prayer deep in the night or after sunset?

From my research "salat* al 3sha" refers to after sunset to darkness of the night (i.e. end of twilight). Although it could be extended and begin when the sun first sinks beneath the horizon if one wishes to extend the time - this will depend on how one interprets SaBiH/glorify.
http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/meaning-SaBiH-from-Quran.html

*bond/affirmation/salat

Timotheus

Peace,

I believe the Quran clearly states 2 salat (contact) times (something i have only recently accepted)

11114 You shall hold the contact prayer at both ends of the day, that is, section of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder for those who remember.
(Reformist Translation - Edip Yuksel)

in my understanding, and i believe it is the best fitting interpretation, this verse says...

establish Salat at

i believe the part in square brackets is a self contained explanation, i.e the two ends of the day, during the early hours/approaches of the night.
Theese are also the 2 salat mentioned by name in the quran, salat al-fajr and salat al-eisha.

i believe that 2238 (mentioning al-salat al-wusta) is a description of HOW we should salat, not WHEN, i.e to uphold the salat, the best/foremost/most balanced (Wusta) salat, i believe this also is the best fit and interpretation of this verse. see the article below, it is alot better explained.

Also a big problem i have, is that God tells us that noon is a time for undress, and rest from the heat of the day. i cant recall the exact verse, but if there was a salat at mid day (i.e "the middle salat" as some interpret al-salat al-wusta) then that would be more important and worthy of mention than getting undressed and resting. (also if i recall correctly the verse is the same one which mentions salat al-fajr and al-eisha by name, and seems quite strange God would not mention the middle salat, as he mentions the two salat, and the time which this "middle salat" would supposedly be due, yet with no mention of there being a salat there.)

i dont wish to go in depth, but there is a great article here discussing salat timings and related issues http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

God says he made the quran fully detailed, and clear, and easy to understand. Now theese two salat, i believe, we can all agree are fully detailed, clear and easy to understand. The other 1-4 or more salat which certain people (including myself untill recently) uphold are not fully detailed, clear and easy to understand. and there are other problems with them, as described in the article i link (which is not my own work by the way, i believe if i recall correctly it is Wakas work, correct me if i am wrong)

I certainly feel at peace finaly with this interpretation, something i have not with any other. (i have gone from 5 - 6 - 3 - 10+ - 5 -3 -5 salat in the past and never realy been at content that it was the right way, as God describes)

Anyway i thought i would chip in, Praise God he guided me to this, and may he reward those who have dilligently studied this matter, and shared there understanding.

Peace.

Comrox

Peace,

I believe the Quran clearly states 2 salat (contact) times (something i have only recently accepted)

11114 You shall hold the contact prayer at both ends of the day, that is, section of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder for those who remember.
(Reformist Translation - Edip Yuksel)

in my understanding, and i believe it is the best fitting interpretation, this verse says...

establish Salat at

i believe the part in square brackets is a self contained explanation, i.e the two ends of the day, during the early hours/approaches of the night.
Theese are also the 2 salat mentioned by name in the quran, salat al-fajr and salat al-eisha.

i believe that 2238 (mentioning al-salat al-wusta) is a description of HOW we should salat, not WHEN, i.e to uphold the salat, the best/foremost/most balanced (Wusta) salat, i believe this also is the best fit and interpretation of this verse. see the article below, it is alot better explained.

Also a big problem i have, is that God tells us that noon is a time for undress, and rest from the heat of the day. i cant recall the exact verse, but if there was a salat at mid day (i.e "the middle salat" as some interpret al-salat al-wusta) then that would be more important and worthy of mention than getting undressed and resting. (also if i recall correctly the verse is the same one which mentions salat al-fajr and al-eisha by name, and seems quite strange God would not mention the middle salat, as he mentions the two salat, and the time which this "middle salat" would supposedly be due, yet with no mention of there being a salat there.)

i dont wish to go in depth, but there is a great article here discussing salat timings and related issues http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

God says he made the quran fully detailed, and clear, and easy to understand. Now theese two salat, i believe, we can all agree are fully detailed, clear and easy to understand. The other 1-4 or more salat which certain people (including myself untill recently) uphold are not fully detailed, clear and easy to understand. and there are other problems with them, as described in the article i link (which is not my own work by the way, i believe if i recall correctly it is Wakas work, correct me if i am wrong)

I certainly feel at peace finaly with this interpretation, something i have not with any other. (i have gone from 5 - 6 - 3 - 10+ - 5 -3 -5 salat in the past and never realy been at content that it was the right way, as God describes)

Anyway i thought i would chip in, Praise God he guided me to this, and may he reward those who have dilligently studied this matter, and shared there understanding.

Peace.

Thank you for sharing your insight and the article link - I really needed that. Perfect timing. Thanks. ;D

Timotheus

Thank you for sharing your insight and the article link - I really needed that. Perfect timing. Thanks. ;D

Peace, All praise is due to God, Lord of the universe, if i do any good it is because God has blessed me with it. God actualy literaly blessed me with this understanding, and the acceptance of it, yesterday, and i also felt i realy needed that and it was perfect timing. of course, it is because Gods timing cannot be anything other than perfect.

Peace

imrankhawaja

from last two months I also changed my timing from three contact prayers to 2,

although if I get a chance I also read it as a extra prayer sometimes in midnight sometimes before the sunset..

but I convince after reading brother wakas article , that there are basically two contact prayers in quran by name.

@ wakas I have some more questions if you write anything in your article about these two contact prayers is there is also any code of actions or one can do it whatever they feel regarding salat.. abolution and reciting is something understandable .. is there is anything else you want to add on..

peace

Timotheus

from last two months I also changed my timing from three contact prayers to 2,

although if I get a chance I also read it as a extra prayer sometimes in midnight sometimes before the sunset..

but I convince after reading brother wakas article , that there are basically two contact prayers in quran by name.

@ wakas I have some more questions if you write anything in your article about these two contact prayers is there is also any code of actions or one can do it whatever they feel regarding salat.. abolution and reciting is something understandable .. is there is anything else you want to add on..

peace

Praise God, i have read that article, and supporting views many times, and done alot of research, but i guess God has blessed me now with the ability to actualy accept that it is that simple.

In terms of what to do in salat, the quran is relatively silent, apart from implicitly that it involves prostrations, although this may be interpreted as humbling yourself before your lord, etc not literaly as physical prostrations..
but bowing and prostrating (Ruku and Sujuud) as often mentioned in relation to the salat, and masjid.

(edit) i also forgot to mention obviously it contains recital, or speech because, god instructs us regarding it (and i may have forgotten some other points)

For me i believe the Key is, literaly just that The Key.
If you can recite al-fatihah truthfully, with conviction, and longing for your lord, i believe it is the key to keeping contact (salat) with God. to show our appreciation, to glorify and praise him, to acknowledge him as the One worthy of worship, etc.

I believe God is more concerned with our attitude, and our intentions etc, than with any specific ritual etc., as he says;

2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of adversity and hardship and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.

Peace

janet

Peace,

I believe the Quran clearly states 2 salat (contact) times (something i have only recently accepted)

11114 You shall hold the contact prayer at both ends of the day, that is, section of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder for those who remember.
(Reformist Translation - Edip Yuksel)

in my understanding, and i believe it is the best fitting interpretation, this verse says...

establish Salat at

i believe the part in square brackets is a self contained explanation, i.e the two ends of the day, during the early hours/approaches of the night.
Theese are also the 2 salat mentioned by name in the quran, salat al-fajr and salat al-eisha.

i believe that 2238 (mentioning al-salat al-wusta) is a description of HOW we should salat, not WHEN, i.e to uphold the salat, the best/foremost/most balanced (Wusta) salat, i believe this also is the best fit and interpretation of this verse. see the article below, it is alot better explained.

Also a big problem i have, is that God tells us that noon is a time for undress, and rest from the heat of the day. i cant recall the exact verse, but if there was a salat at mid day (i.e "the middle salat" as some interpret al-salat al-wusta) then that would be more important and worthy of mention than getting undressed and resting. (also if i recall correctly the verse is the same one which mentions salat al-fajr and al-eisha by name, and seems quite strange God would not mention the middle salat, as he mentions the two salat, and the time which this "middle salat" would supposedly be due, yet with no mention of there being a salat there.)

i dont wish to go in depth, but there is a great article here discussing salat timings and related issues http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

God says he made the quran fully detailed, and clear, and easy to understand. Now theese two salat, i believe, we can all agree are fully detailed, clear and easy to understand. The other 1-4 or more salat which certain people (including myself untill recently) uphold are not fully detailed, clear and easy to understand. and there are other problems with them, as described in the article i link (which is not my own work by the way, i believe if i recall correctly it is Wakas work, correct me if i am wrong)

I certainly feel at peace finaly with this interpretation, something i have not with any other. (i have gone from 5 - 6 - 3 - 10+ - 5 -3 -5 salat in the past and never realy been at content that it was the right way, as God describes)

Anyway i thought i would chip in, Praise God he guided me to this, and may he reward those who have dilligently studied this matter, and shared there understanding.

Peace.

Salaam to all,

I am in complete agreement with this point of view. It is apparently confirmed in the previous scriptures as well. King David certainly followed these timings and so did Zakariya the guardian of Mary.

The word 'wusta" appears to be an adjective and not a proper noun. Please refer to the link.

http//mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

Regards,
Janet.

Timotheus

Peace,

One problem i do have regarding salat however, is when is salat-al-jummuah meant to be preformed? i dont recall any exact timeframe apart from friday, i guess this would mean that it is up to us, as a community to organize a communal salat? idk, prehaps i am missing some key point.

EDIT

i just realised that it never actualy says 'the friday contact' it is 'the contact from the day of friday'

629 O you who believe, if the contact prayer is called to at the gathering day, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if only you knew.

I will, god willing, have to look further into this, as im sure there is some understanding of mine i can purify, i also would appreciate anyone elses thoughts.

AND AGAIN.. it never actualy says friday, lol, al-jummuah means the gathering, in my understanding. prehaps this is ralated to hajj?.. or prehaps it is one of the previous festival/events God decreed in the Torah

Peace

janet

Peace,

One problem i do have regarding salat however, is when is salat-al-jummuah meant to be preformed? i dont recall any exact timeframe apart from friday, i guess this would mean that it is up to us, as a community to organize a communal salat? idk, prehaps i am missing some key point.

EDIT

i just realised that it never actualy says 'the friday contact' it is 'the contact from the day of friday'

629 O you who believe, if the contact prayer is called to at the gathering day, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God, and cease all selling. This is better for you, if only you knew.

I will, god willing, have to look further into this, as im sure there is some understanding of mine i can purify, i also would appreciate anyone elses thoughts.

AND AGAIN.. it never actualy says friday, lol, al-jummuah means the gathering, in my understanding. prehaps this is ralated to hajj?.. or prehaps it is one of the previous festival/events God decreed in the Torah

Peace

Salaam Timotheus,

"Yaumil Jumuaati" literally translates to "day/era/period of time/age/time of convocation/assembly/gathering"

Ya-Waw-Miim = day, era, time, today, this/that day, age/period of time.

Jiim-Miim-Ayn = To collect or gather, bring together, to contract, assemble or congregate, unite or connect or form a connection, bring into a state of union, reconcile or conciliate, put on a thing , to compose/arrange/settle, to pray in congregation, determine/resolve/decide upon a thing, agree or unite in opinion, prepare or make a thing ready, dry up a thing, conspire or league with another, coexist with one, to be compact/compressed/contracted, exert one's energy, to compromise or comprehend or contain, enter or go into, to meet or be in company with another.

This can correspond to the well known pilgrimage festival of Sukkot, also known as the Feast of Tabernacles/ the Feast of the Ingathering, which marks the end of the harvest time. It is a week long festival in Israel and both the first and the eighth day are treated like the sabbath where businesses are closed. Interestingly, the eighth day is called "Shemini Atzeret" or "The Eighth Day of Assembly"

According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, atzeret (or aeret) is the name given to it in Leviticus 2336; Numbers 2935; Nehemiah 818; 2Chronicles 79. It is not mentioned in Deuteronomy 16, and is found only in those parts of the Bible known as the Priestly Code. Like atzarah (Amos 521; Isaiah 113; Joel 114), atzeret denotes "day of assembly", from atzar = "to hold back" or "keep in"; hence also the name atzeret given to the seventh day of Pesa (Deuteronomy 16. Owing, however, to the fact that both Shemini Atzeret and the seventh day of Pesa are described as atzeret, the name was taken to mean "the closing festival".

This festival is one of celebration and enjoyment and is an extremely important ancient harvest festival.

https//books.google.com.pk/books?id=ASsHZFokICsC&pg=PA34&lpg=PA34&dq=did+the+ancient+jews+do+any+trading+of+produce+during+sukkot&source=bl&ots=DdfUncRbA8&sig=Cie9ci45gHExumglvQRryFCyYPU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiu7fn2udPNAhVJLhoKHZWQBO0Q6AEIWDAI#v=onepage&q=did%20the%20ancient%20jews%20do%20any%20trading%20of%20produce%20during%20sukkot&f=false

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Janet.