Quran and Pedophilia
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I would say they are quite similar, humans and animals. The human is just a slightly more advanced primate with its instincts and the main difference is the highly potential spirit attached to it.
Of course there are behavioral differences between species, even within the family of primates. Each has variations in instinctive behavior and also Homo sapiens is a subspecies.
Similar does not mean same.
Instincts can make one know by nature what to do, but one becomes also limited to this world.
I will never agree with this holistic rejection of instincs. Instincs are there for a reason and it is God who created us with instincs and mind. thinking is also a human instinc, morality is also a human instinc, and faith is a human instinc too.
But you said ALL animals can run at birth, but there are fairly helpless babies in the animal world too. Many baby birds that cannot do much and are born initially blind, like humans. And a human baby will look for the breast instinctively when near its mother despite barely seeing anything and the sucking is instinctive. The suck reflex will eventually just vanish. The human baby is just as capable as some animal babies in the animal world. It is different between species.
No I did not mean ALL animals and that is why I wrote a "try" after that thinking it would cover the non writen "almost" all animals... Also "as uncapable" as human being there is no other. Only his brain and the community will keep him alive even in adulthood.
It is true the human child is a child during a longer period but this is species-related thing. Humans also have among the longest total life spans (not saying the longest). However, some primate species resemble Homo sapiens and its growth speed of children. An infant gorilla can walk at the age of 6 months and they reach 50 years of age. I am sure if they lived like humans with same hygiene and nutrients they would perhaps increase it too. And a gorilla is not fully adult until the age of ten. By adult there I suppose it means it is fertile and passed puberty.
Gorillas are very similar to us but they are not us. First of all gorillas are not bipedal and the age they can almost try to escape a predator is very sooner than 6 months. Their mothers would carry them for almost 2 years although they can walk themselves much earlier. Also they seem to reach adulthood even earlier than sexual maturity. Anyway this is not a discussion about gorillas and the topic is closed and I think despite of the possible misundertandings and lack of some words, I made my point soooooooooo happy new yeaaaar
God bless you all
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I'm really bored...thinking about clearing some words.
If a 60 year old marries a 20 year old, that's not pedophilia.
Pedo (child) philia (love). The 20 year old is a young adult.
When does one leave childhood? Puberty.
What is it called when a +50 yo marries someone who has hit puberty (10-11 yo)? I don't know, but to me this is immoral. Anyone else know?
There must be a good definition in Quran, but overlooked when someone can marry a young woman.Remember these are all man-made definitions. So Quran has answer but maybe too overlooked. The key is in checking the lactation and the verses regarding mothers breastfeeding two years or having nursing mothers. When can a woman lactate? Is that the age when women can get married?
WE NEED A DOCTOR! At what age can young women lactate after pregnancy (theoritcal of course)???? brickwall brickwall
Or perhaps we should look into menarche and what follows instead?
brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall
Salam
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WE NEED A DOCTOR! At what age can women lactate after pregnancy???? brickwall brickwall
Salam
Yes, please, ask one because ...
Actually a woman can lactate even before the delivery time while she is still pregnant so the right age is just few weeks before the delivery of her first child rotfllet's ask a veterinatian and a biologist too to see when it happens in other species confused
(Yes of course i am joking)
Salam to you too peace
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Yes, please, ask one because ...
Actually a woman can lactate even before the delivery time while she is still pregnant so the right age is just few weeks before the delivery of her first child rotfllet's ask a veterinatian and a biologist too to see when it happens in other species confused
(Yes of course i am joking)
Salam to you too peace
You misunderstood me...If a perverted man marries a young girl, she has hit puberty, and she becomes pregnant, after delivery...can she lactate?
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Yes, please, ask one because ...
Actually some woman can lactate even before the delivery time while she is still pregnant so the right age is just few weeks before the delivery of her first child rotfllet's ask a veterinatian and a biologist too to see when it happens in other species confused
(Yes of course i am joking)
Salam to you too peace
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Sorry, i did not understand you at all then...
laugh Changed it, maybe it's more understandable now
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I will never agree with this holistic rejection of instincs. Instincs are there for a reason and it is God who created us with instincs and mind. thinking is also a human instinc, morality is also a human instinc, and faith is a human instinc too.
Fair enough.
Instincts = Satan.
The Spirit is separate from the flesh/body, so with your impossible stance ("never agree" you will not prosper.
Faith is not an instinct, it is a logical deduction that reinforces one's character. Faith connoted with worship, especially a material deity is instinct. All instincts should be avoided because that is the best translation of Satan as a word.
Thinking (free-minded) is not an instinct, it is a functionality not possible in animals and is bound to the superior spirit. Animals cannot think because they have no spirit of depth while humans have it. The result of thinking may be brought by the instinct on the other hand.
Did you learn nothing from me?
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Regarding this issue we first need to make a distinct standpoint whether we want to talk about Quranic norm, or about other social norms.
Quran clearly doesn't state any prohibition concerning age of marriage. So we can't say such man-made term "pedophilia" is forbidden based on Quran per se. Finish. Full stop.
However, just because Quran doesn't forbid something it doesn't mean we can't generate any regulation about that. Remember that Quran only rules some particular norms and doesn't intended to rule all of human affairs in full details. Thus, people need to use their mind to making rules about what they think need to be ruled as long as don't contend with Quran.
You may eat halal foods, but you will be arrested by police if you eat them by sitting down on the middle of main street at busy hours with all your family. The reason is disturbing public order. Same apply to our topic. I think none of wise government will allow marriage in too low age. Sex activity even can cause fatality on little girl. In fact it is common for countries to rule age of marriage. In Indonesia a man need to reach age 19 and woman need to reach age 16 (which still considered as "immature" if we use 18 as maturity age) to marry. In my opinion, regulation regarding age of marriage should be as low as tolerable because its about determining "minimum age", not "ideal age".
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Of course there is no place for pedophilia in Qur'an.
The Qur'an orders everybody to not marry women without acknowledging their faculty of consent. To have the faculty of consent you have to be of certain age, so that indeed you know what you are contracting. It is a must.
Salaam
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Regarding this issue we first need to make a distinct standpoint whether we want to talk about Quranic norm, or about other social norms.
Quran clearly doesn't state any prohibition concerning age of marriage. So we can't say such man-made term "pedophilia" is forbidden based on Quran per se. Finish. Full stop.
No it's not finish, full stop. If you think God allows such sick and filthy practices then you are reading a different quran than the one I have.
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Thinking (free-minded) is not an instinct, it is a functionality not possible in animals and is bound to the superior spirit. Animals cannot think because they have no spirit of depth while humans have it. The result of thinking may be brought by the instinct on the other hand.
I dont think so. 2441 states clearly that there is faith and prayer in the whole creation, every single species or material is doing its own prayer and role in this duny'a. And we are obliged to respect and take care of His creation, of which we are just a part. When we forget that we become the destructive plague we are
Did you learn nothing from me?
Was I a student and i did not know? confused
Are you always right, really?
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Lactation is just a next step after pregnancy so every healthy woman who has given birth can lactate
I know D, though thats not what I meant.
Salam
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I dont think so. 2441 states clearly that there is faith and prayer in the whole creation, every single species or material is doing its own prayer and role in this duny'a.
Interpretation by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed
2441 Do you not realize that God, He is the One Whom all beings in the heavens and earth glorify, and the birds, with their wings outspread, as they fly in columns. All of them know their Salaat and Tasbeeh (mission and strife). God is Aware of what they do to fulfill His Plan.16
Note 16
All creatures know their Salaat, their inborn Divinely programmed instincts. So, they can automatically strive do their Tasbeeh in the best way. But humans are not programmed with such inborn instincts. Given free will, they must do their Salaat by following the revealed guidance and thus strive do Tasbeeh in the best wayTo my humble understanding this verse gives us the meaning of salat and tasbeeh. It starts with "Do you not realize..." Can anyone realize how the birds and other creations do salat and tasbeeh if these terms are understood as contact prayer and glorification? I dont know if any creation other than "Muslims" have a hadith corpus to find out details of contact prayer and glorification. What Dr.Shabbir Ahmed has interpreted makes a better sense of the term salat and tasbeeh (mission and strife) in this verse. And of course it is my view and everyone has the right to have their own view.
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Of course there is no place for pedophilia in Qur'an.
The Qur'an orders everybody to not marry women without acknowledging their faculty of consent. To have the faculty of consent you have to be of certain age, so that indeed you know what you are contracting. It is a must.
Salaam
As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
What I bold at verse below is guardian of the woman. Relevance of guardian in this case of course because the woman hasn't reach age of maturity (or in some cases because she has weak understanding).
And if you divorce them before you have touched them, and you have already appointed for them a marriage-portion, then one-half of what you have appointed, unless it be they make remission, or he makes remission in whose hand is the knot of marriage; yet that you should remit is nearer to godfearing. Forget not to be bountiful one towards another. Surely God sees the things you do. Q 2237
You can also read in the Quran a story when Musa's father in law married his daughter to Musa. From the narration of the story we know that the bond is just made between them two.
He said, 'I desire to marry thee to one of these my two daughters, on condition that thou hirest thyself to me for eight years. If thou completest ten, that shall be of thy own accord; I do not desire to' press hard 'upon thee. Thou shalt assuredly find me, if God wills, one of the righteous.' Q 2827
In conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
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As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
Hideous, like those one hears about who sell/prostitute their children for a television and attribute it to the book; they should be flogged along with the imbeciles who teach them then forced to pick garbage.
You can also read in the Quran a story when Musa's father in law married his daughter to Musa. From the narration of the story we know that the bond is just made between them two.
They were women of marriageable age not underage girls. Agreement was to sponsor work since a drifter cannot support anyone and obviously daughter/s "approved" of him...
2823... and found from besides them im'ra-atayni/women two...
2826 said (f) one them dual O father that hire him surely best whom that hire thou the strong the trustworthy
2827 said surely I want that sponsor marriage you one daughters dual mine these two on that thou work for me eight ijajin so if complete thou ten of so from near (i.e. up to) you and not I want that make difficult upon you thou will find me if wills the god from the righteousIn conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
46 and test ye of the bereaved until when attained they of the marriage so if perceive you from them right way of/rational so deliver ye of to them wealth theirs and not thou eat/consume ye it wastefully and hastily of lest/that grow up they of and who be ample of so should refrain and who be poor of so let eat/consume in the fair manner so when deliver you to them wealth theirs so witnesses ye of upon them and sufficient in/by the god reckoner of
621 and whom more unjust than whom has fabricated about the god lie of or deny in signs his surely he not succeeds the wrongdoing
Peace
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Interpretation by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed
To my humble understanding this verse gives us the meaning of salat and tasbeeh. It starts with "Do you not realize..." Can anyone realize how the birds and other creations do salat and tasbeeh if these terms are understood as contact prayer and glorification? I dont know if any creation other than "Muslims" have a hadith corpus to find out details of contact prayer and glorification. What Dr.Shabbir Ahmed has interpreted makes a better sense of the term salat and tasbeeh (mission and strife) in this verse. And of course it is my view and everyone has the right to have their own view.Than you so much for the instructive note. I share this view of salat as mission / contribution to the creation's balance, but mostly I agree with your last point peace
In conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
Here we go again with the same....
According to you the woman's / girl's agreement is not needed either.... We have superior men's who will look after our lives and destinies. And if you are a little girls, what can I say? You can perfectly know by then if you want someone for marriage or not...
So lucky you are, men/boys, you have a Quran full of rights only for yourselves giveup
I know D, though thats not what I meant.
Salam
Sorry rotfl First I thought you were jocking and you said i misunderstood and then I tought oh maybe he actually does not know and i misunderstood again brickwall Not your fault, i am not in my best moment brickwall
peace
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As I stated before, for girl who doesn't yet reach maturity age can be married by her guardian that in most cases is her father.
What I bold at verse below is guardian of the woman. Relevance of guardian in this case of course because the woman hasn't reach age of maturity (or in some cases because she has weak understanding).
In conclusion, maturity is not an absolute condition for girl to marry. Therefore, there is no prohibition to marry immature girl according to the Quran per se.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat
There is not an ?age for marriage? in Quran?
Maybe Quran wants you to use COMMON SENSE. brickwall
The following are from QURAN
2458 O you who believe, let those among you who are committed to by your oath, and those who have not attained puberty (hulum), request your permission regarding three times before the dawn contact prayer, and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the evening contact prayer. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
2459 And when your children reach puberty (hulum), then let them seek your permission like it was sought by those before them. God thus clarifies His revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.If there is an age for asking permission in these cases, why there is not an age for marriage? Is marriage less serious?
There is also an age for maturity and finantial independence of the indivual, and it is not even equal to puberty as you have to "determine their comprehension". Puberty is not the only requirement
46 And test the orphans when they reach puberty, then, if you have determined from them comprehension, then give them their money, and do not deliberately consume it wastefully or quickly before they grow up.
But there is not for marriage?
But actually Wakas wrote it better with great quotes and Quran references in the following
http//misconceptions-about-islam.com/muhammad-married-young-girl.htm
But the most important
6140 Losers are those who have killed their children foolishly, without knowledge, and they forbade what God had granted them by lying about God. They have strayed and they were not guided.
And marrying a child you are killing a child's soul.
peace