How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran
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Ah, no, I do not get inspiration from verses. I apply them all the time. Fazlur Rahman or any other scholar can't do anything for my salvation. I came to this world alone and I will probably leave alone also. If I am having doubt I would ask about the verses from those who have genuine interest in Quran like the people up here.
Without realizing it, you are following imam Shafi'i's claim and official formulation that every single verse in the Qur'an is timeless, universal and must be literally applied in every region of the world and under all cirumstances. Prior to imam Shafi'i, nobody ever claimed such a thing; not even the prophet himself or any of his closest friends. On the contrary, I gave the example of Omar who didn't follow the verse in the Qur'an about booty because if he applied that verse it would have been "injust" in that situation. Someone who had spent years with the prophet and knew him well surely knew what he was doing.
Umm, no because the situation is related to preislamic trend. That said, I agree with imrankhawaja that slavery still exists...but with just other names.
Slavery continued in the Muslim world and elsewhere in the world, including the West until the 19th century. Unfortunately, it was not Muslims who abolished slavery but westerners. How sad.
By the way, Quran does not have any verse on whether Muslims can drink acid. That does not mean it is allowed.
We apply it in the west though....check our American constitution.Very true, because the Qur'an is not a book of law. The Qur'an also doesn't have a verse on punishing rapists, does that mean that rape is fine, or that God forgot to punish rape? There is also not a punishment for homosexuality - is homosexuality fine, or less of a crime than heterosexual activity? There is also not a single verse on bestiality, does that mean sex with animals is acceptable, or not such a big deal? The truth is, punishments for thieves, adulterers, murderers etc. etc. were never meant as literal, universal and timeless laws to be applied everywhere. Nor is the Qur'an a book of economics, warfare, politics, science, sociology or anything else. The Qur'an doesn't talk about tanks and planes; it talks about camels and horses, but we don't see Muslims waging war with horses and camels anymore. Nobody is applying those verses about horses and camels in the Qur'an literally.
The Qur'an does not have verses on punishing internet crimes and thousands of other issues are never even mentioned. That is why you can only get inspiration from the Qur'an, nothing in the Qur'an was meant to be applied literally and universally in every corner of the world. Besides, the Qur'an is Arabic, Bolivians never had a Qur'an. If Arabs were born in South America they too would have never known about the Qur'an or believed in it. If following the Qur'an literally was so important for God, if it literally meant eternal Heaven or Hellfire, He could and definitely would have sent Qur'ans in all languages to all the peoples of the world, which He hasn't. But this is perhaps not entirely relevant to the issue we were discussing.
When tafseer, hadiths and sectarian scholars are used to read Quran we get that to be Muslim one has to convert into Ibn Hanbal/Shafi.
All Muslims, without knowing, follow the much later formulation of Shafi'i that the Qur'an is, in its enterity, universal, timeless and must be followed to the letter at all times, which nobody ever does or did even in the 7th century during caliph Omar's rule who was one of the prophet's closest companions.
Peace peace
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Besides, the Qur'an is Arabic, Bolivians never had a Qur'an. If Arabs were born in South America they too would have never known about the Qur'an or believed in it. If following the Qur'an literally was so important for God, if it literally meant eternal Heaven or Hellfire, He could and definitely would have sent Qur'ans in all languages to all the peoples of the world, which He hasn't. But this is perhaps not entirely relevant to the issue we were discussing.
Peace Recluse,
Had to comment here. This thinking brings us back to the discussion on holy books and if they're really necessary to serve and understand God. I don't think following the Qur'an to the letter is what will get us into Heaven... Books have simply just been an easy way throughout history to spread knowledge. We're all human, we all make mistakes, we all don't know everything, etc. We're all bound to screw up in one way or another. Our individual beliefs and deeds will determine our fates. I choose to believe in Qur'an. That's my choice. )
In another thread I looked over (it was old, forgot the title), people were discussing Qur'an alone versus God alone. While here at Free Minds a lot of us believe in Qur'an, we should also remember our beliefs should reflect and be centered around only God.
Regarding the fact that God hasn't sent Qur'ans all over the world... True, He hasn't. But in the past many people in society have believed in and recognized God. In today's time it seems atheism is rising. We also live in a world that is so connected and so vast. There is so much information on any topic available on the Internet. There's little excuse not to know something these days. I think we're going to see the world develop and connect more and more as time goes on. We have the tools to look up and research anything we desire (including religion/spirituality/etc). It's up to us to use these tools in the ways we see fit.
Just my two cents. )
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excellent work @ reel
Thank you brother )
Without realizing it, you are following imam Shafi'i's claim and official formulation that every single verse in the Qur'an is timeless, universal and must be literally applied in every region of the world and under all cirumstances. Prior to imam Shafi'i, nobody ever claimed such a thing; not even the prophet himself or any of his closest friends.
I am from public admin. My view is based on my policy analysis. Feel free to learn how to do it on your own. You may also check out this study http//www.thejournal.ie/ireland-is-more-faithful-to-the-koran-than-saudi-arabia-1507583-Jun2014/
On the contrary, I gave the example of Omar who didn't follow the verse in the Qur'an about booty because if he applied that verse it would have been "injust" in that situation. Someone who had spent years with the prophet and knew him well surely knew what he was doing.
Because somewhere in hadiths which basically are rumors, gossips, political propaganda, results of revenge etc someone said why he did not apply the booty verse, we should think "oh, the law is so unjust".
Things don't work that way here. I think you should raise your point in sunniforum.
Slavery continued in the Muslim world and elsewhere in the world, including the West until the 19th century. Unfortunately, it was not Muslims who abolished slavery but westerners. How sad.
How could you expect Muslims from corrupted sectarian Islam to do such thing? It is not permissible to break away from hadiths, one of which says the Prophet was selling his slave.
Very true, because the Qur'an is not a book of law. The Qur'an also doesn't have a verse on punishing rapists, does that mean that rape is fine, or that God forgot to punish rape? There is also not a punishment for homosexuality - is homosexuality fine, or less of a crime than heterosexual activity? There is also not a single verse on bestiality, does that mean sex with animals is acceptable, or not such a big deal? The truth is, punishments for thieves, adulterers, murderers etc. etc. were never meant as literal, universal and timeless laws to be applied everywhere. Nor is the Qur'an a book of economics, warfare, politics, science, sociology or anything else. The Qur'an doesn't talk about tanks and planes; it talks about camels and horses, but we don't see Muslims waging war with horses and camels anymore. Nobody is applying those verses about horses and camels in the Qur'an literally.
The Qur'an does not have verses on punishing internet crimes and thousands of other issues are never even mentioned. That is why you can only get inspiration from the Qur'an, nothing in the Qur'an was meant to be applied literally and universally in every corner of the world. Besides, the Qur'an is Arabic, Bolivians never had a Qur'an. If Arabs were born in South America they too would have never known about the Qur'an or believed in it.
Does American constitution have them? Nope. But it is used as a roadmap to make laws in fair manner. That is the point.
If following the Qur'an literally was so important for God, if it literally meant eternal Heaven or Hellfire, He could and definitely would have sent Qur'ans in all languages to all the peoples of the world, which He hasn't. But this is perhaps not entirely relevant to the issue we were discussing.
And in which verse God says Quran is the first true and only Book from God?
All Muslims, without knowing, follow the much later formulation of Shafi'i that the Qur'an is, in its enterity, universal, timeless and must be followed to the letter at all times, which nobody ever does or did even in the 7th century during caliph Omar's rule who was one of the prophet's closest companions.
Peace peace
I don't think you are getting our view. To know where we are coming from feel free to check http//ancientmodernislam.blogspot.com/2016/03/how-do-sects-and-hadiths-look-when.html
http//muslimsforallah.com/new-quranists-what-should-you-expect/ -
if someone said a sex outside marriage is not haram (degenerating you and no god and human punishment?)
then ask them,
1.so is it okay to have an un transgressed incest sex with your sister/brother or your parents
because we are not married to them.2.is it okay to have multi sex (threesome etc)
3.if the one woman get pregnant after doing threesome, how you detrrmind the father of that child,
because in the future this child of threesome sex might meet a girl or boy which is his/her own brother and they might get married as an inchest4.is it okay to have incest marriage
and in biology inchest will bring a degenerated genetic of human
my belief is,
- marriage is an oath to make sex legal between two party man and woman
2.and an oath must have a witness, minimum is four
3.a marriage oath cannot be done in secreet
4.having boy friend n girl friend n flirting is permissable IF they have a plan to get married at first, and they cannot transgress
5.its not talking about slave but talking to have sex with your right hand (masturbation)
6.and masturbating other person outside marriage got half punishment
7.covering your reproduction, ask animal why they didnt cover it
"be higer human, dont downgrade ur self as an animal
the distinction of human and animal is on their brain thinking mind
dnot only follow your desire of animal part without brain,
by doing sex outside marriage, polygamy, incest
if u have mind but acting like animal, you are defenerating ur self lower than animal"may god bless us and make us into higer being to the higer heaven nirvana
- marriage is an oath to make sex legal between two party man and woman
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one more, god tell us an oath of transaction and deal must be written
human is an animal being with higer way of thingking by using their brain, the more you get lose from this animal body the better, thats why higer intellectual people prefer abstain from sex,
and people with higer knowledge got more higer degree in god sight
polygamy, drunk, gamble, not covering ur body part especialy your jewelry n your genitals
is not prohibited
but those things will degenerated you as human, even prophet want to avoid it -
5.its not talking about slave but talking to have sex with your right hand (masturbation)
peace brother,
some people are left handed yes
whats about them
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QURAN is just a tips books, and a happy info from god the most good n most evil, its just a tips how things work in this harsh dimension of universe, how lion kill and eat lamb, but ballance is a good thing in believer perspective, there will be no good without evil, now chose animal human,
and who follow hadist is a man without knowledge, may god give them hidayah
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peace brother,
some people are left handed yes
whats about them
use ur right hand mean self masturbation is halal
"use what ur body posesed with those sex desire"
your foot or your own mouth or use vibrator, easy
or hold and abstain from it like higer human woth knowledge
until you got money to pay dowry or if ur lover doesent need any dowry -
right hand batsman & left hand batsman(cricket)
right hand rule (physics)
right hand traffic & left hand traffic(transport)some right handers play with left hand ,,, and some lleft handed played with right hand... its a strange classification..
even in tradition people who eat with right hand and wipe their (dirt) with left hand considered as righteous people..
but again when i see a lefty is in situation and every time he eat with left hand people say him things... (its was illogical).. -
your foot or your own mouth
hahahahahaha
for this a person must be expert in gymnastic...
specially the mouth one is impossible... rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
btw did you try it...?
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hahhaa
which you prefer doing the masturbation with?anyway its not about a slave,
how can right hand posses mean a slave??
which is closer meaning?
right hand posses = doing sex with ur own body part which possesed the sex desire
right hand posses = your slave -
slave is a poor defination ,
look this thread for more insight...
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9609341.0
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hahhaa
which you prefer doing the masturbation with?its a secret , i dnt really want to share my recepies with somebody else police
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exactly, brother you are right..
keeping a convo clean best way is to use surf excel...
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hahahah yeah i know, but
openess is better in scientific matter and spiritual and belief which is about frankness
like science, quran is about science of how this universe works
but let me jst say sorry if any of u grt offendedright hand posses = body part which posses (the sex desire)
its more logical because those ayat is talking about the sex with
and posses = mean the sex desire which the ayat is talking about
right hand = mean body partthat translation is better n more logical for the whole ayat
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brother you can drive whatever meanings you want .. this book is open for exploring new ideas...
i want to add something in your discussion , the right hand posess thing is also well understood in the sense of that thing which come from your own body as the result of sex drive..
so its belong to you , if you wasted it its not a big deal... (i can understand your part)
but i want to add one more thing.. whats about the sex with doll(artifical)... its third catagory now...
and are two people allowed to use same doll for sex? -
brother you can drive whatever meanings you want .. this book is open for exploring new ideas...
i want to add something in your discussion , the right hand posess thing is also well understood in the sense of that thing which come from your own body as the result of sex drive..
so its belong to you , if you wasted it its not a big deal... (i can understand your part)
but i want to add one more thing.. whats about the sex with doll(artifical)... its third catagory now...
and are two people allowed to use same doll for sex?lets just say a guy have it with robot doll
as long those robot moved by it self or by your self and
no other person control it
its considered as your body part,tools you posses or control is ur body part
like sword that you hold is considered as ur bodypartif two guys use that robot, than it men those robot is their each bodypart
and these verse tell us its okay to use what ur part posses,
tools become ur body part/possesed when u hold itso as long u have it by ur self, theres no prohibition on that
dont use that bodypart tool with other person together/simultanouslythat what i belief
