How sex before Marriage is not haram (prohibited) according to the Quran

[imrankhawaja]

exactly, brother you are right..

keeping a convo clean best way is to use surf excel...

[rararanran]

hahahah yeah i know, but
openess is better in scientific matter and spiritual and belief which is about frankness
like science, quran is about science of how this universe works
but let me jst say sorry if any of u grt offended

right hand posses = body part which posses (the sex desire)
its more logical because those ayat is talking about the sex with
and posses = mean the sex desire which the ayat is talking about
right hand = mean body part

that translation is better n more logical for the whole ayat

[imrankhawaja]

brother you can drive whatever meanings you want .. this book is open for exploring new ideas...

i want to add something in your discussion , the right hand posess thing is also well understood in the sense of that thing which come from your own body as the result of sex drive..

so its belong to you , if you wasted it its not a big deal... (i can understand your part)

but i want to add one more thing.. whats about the sex with doll(artifical)... its third catagory now...
and are two people allowed to use same doll for sex?

[rararanran]

brother you can drive whatever meanings you want .. this book is open for exploring new ideas...

i want to add something in your discussion , the right hand posess thing is also well understood in the sense of that thing which come from your own body as the result of sex drive..

so its belong to you , if you wasted it its not a big deal... (i can understand your part)

but i want to add one more thing.. whats about the sex with doll(artifical)... its third catagory now...
and are two people allowed to use same doll for sex?

lets just say a guy have it with robot doll

as long those robot moved by it self or by your self and
no other person control it
its considered as your body part,

tools you posses or control is ur body part
like sword that you hold is considered as ur bodypart

if two guys use that robot, than it men those robot is their each bodypart
and these verse tell us its okay to use what ur part posses,
tools become ur body part/possesed when u hold it

so as long u have it by ur self, theres no prohibition on that
dont use that bodypart tool with other person together/simultanously

that what i belief

[imrankhawaja]

lets just say a guy have it with robot doll

as long those robot moved by it self or by your self and
no other person control it
its considered as your body part,

tools you posses or control is ur body part
like sword that you hold is considered as ur bodypart

if two guys use that robot, than it men those robot is their each bodypart
and these verse tell us its okay to use what ur part posses,
tools become ur body part/possesed when u hold it

so as long u have it by ur self, theres no prohibition on that
dont use that bodypart tool with other person together/simultanously

that what i belief

hmm so same right handed robots are rightfully yours if you buy them...

but if a friend want to take favor he can also use that robot... that what you try to say...

in case of animals , what you rightfully own , are we allowed to do sex with them? we even kill them for eating so why not do sex with them for sex satisfaction? (i want your views on it)

RED nobody can do it brother.. which world you are living in... is it really possible... o

[rararanran]

hmm so same right handed robots are rightfully yours if you buy them...

but if a friend want to take favor he can also use that robot... that what you try to say...

in case of animals , what you rightfully own , are we allowed to do sex with them? we even kill them for eating so why not do sex with them for sex satisfaction? (i want your views on it)

RED nobody can do it brother.. which world you are living in... is it really possible... o

first thing first, god did not prohibit polygamy, divorce, gamble, geting drunk, or masturbation
because some people say its haram by god,

but god didnt say its haram
god jst say theres a huge lost u can get from doing that,
which will degenerate ur degree as human being

wait a second i give example, sword u hold n control at ur hand is considered ur body part,
its not about who is buying or own those thing, its a matter who use or control it = thats what i mean by "posses" it, like ghost "posses" a being

and animal? could you really or the one who control or "posess" the animal?
horse? do you control horse and consider that animal as ur body part?

btw its not a car, insted u could have sex with a car u control/possess if u want to hehe

RED its about the future a robot doll, or a doll with two hole
you can buy it, but you prohibited to use it together with other people at the same time
because quran answear all things, past, present or future

[imrankhawaja]

first thing first, god did not prohibit polygamy, divorce, gamble, geting drunk, or masturbation
because some people say its haram by god,

but god didnt say its haram
god jst say theres a huge lost u can get from doing that,
which will degenerate ur degree as human being

wait a second i give example, sword u hold n control at ur hand is considered ur body part,
its not about who is buying or own those thing, its a matter who use or control it = thats what i mean by "posses" it, like ghost "posses" a being

and animal? could you really or the one who control or "posess" the animal?
horse? do you control horse and consider that animal as ur body part?

btw its not a car, insted u could have sex with a car u control/possess if u want to hehe

RED its about the future a robot doll, or a doll with two hole
you can buy it, but you prohibited to use it together with other people at the same time
because quran answear all things, past, present or future

having a sex with car is recommended . ok i got it...
and about future , we dnt know what is gona happen in near future ... (lets talk about present)

yes you control the horse when you , pull his left chain for taking left turn and right for right turn..
yes horse in in your possession and control... (by the will of God)
even the modern engines in cars are also built through horse power engine measurements ( seems horse is not an ordinary animal)
yes you rightfully own your horse /animals
you can kill them for eat, ride them for transport... and why dnt you just have a sex with them thats what i ask according to your own given logic... ( try to give me answer this time just yes or no)

apart from that...

polygamy, divorce, gamble, geting drunk, or masturbation

in this list add more thing which are not haram like

lie
dishonesty
cheating
swaering
assaulting

list is bit long ...

but we differentiate things with morality and immorality...

like the way you are discussing is consider as immoral discussion... why immoral becoz some womens are in forum too so for the sake of their respect you need to hold the moralities ..

but yeh for getting knowledge you can aks the questions in immoral way its not haram/prohibted...

people usually consider the word haram as something extra apart from law...
haram is a synonym of a prohibtion or restriction...
in that sense a lie can be haram too
cheating can be haram too
dishonesty can b haram too
disloyalty can be haram too...

depend on how you look the word "haram"

if you want to discuss the word haram we can talk in relevant thread instead of going offtopic...

[imrankhawaja]

RED its about the future a robot doll, or a doll with two hole
you can buy it, but you prohibited to use it together with other people at the same time
because quran answear all things, past, present or future

so according to you anal sex is also recomended... ? look your own logic is rolling again and again with new multiple questions...

[rararanran]

having a sex with car is recommended . ok i got it...
and about future , we dnt know what is gona happen in near future ... (lets talk about present)

yes you control the horse when you , pull his left chain for taking left turn and right for right turn..
yes horse in in your possession and control... (by the will of God)
even the modern engines in cars are also built through horse power engine measurements ( seems horse is not an ordinary animal)
yes you rightfully own your horse /animals
you can kill them for eat, ride them for transport... and why dnt you just have a sex with them thats what i ask according to your own given logic... ( try to give me answer this time just yes or no)

apart from that...

polygamy, divorce, gamble, geting drunk, or masturbation

in this list add more thing which are not haram like

lie
dishonesty
cheating
swaering
assaulting

list is bit long ...

but we differentiate things with morality and immorality...

like the way you are discussing is consider as immoral discussion... why immoral becoz some womens are in forum too so for the sake of their respect you need to hold the moralities ..

but yeh for getting knowledge you can aks the questions in immoral way its not haram/prohibted...

people usually consider the word haram as something extra apart from law...
haram is a synonym of a prohibtion or restriction...
in that sense a lie can be haram too
cheating can be haram too
dishonesty can b haram too
disloyalty can be haram too...

depend on how you look the word "haram"

if you want to discuss the word haram we can talk in relevant thread instead of going offtopic...

dishonesty, dont take oath n promise from them anymore
cheating lets say adultery, lash em in public ( talk about their bad deed in public to make them ashamed)
swaering?? this is not haram
assaulting, its considered transgression do what they did to you in equal
stealing for greed/corruption chop hand
straling because nothing to eat starving to death is not haram

its not about moral or immoral its about which is haram, dont mix those
haram and have punishment for it
punishment by god and by human

quran is science and theres no taboo thing in science 1+1 is 2

so talk about stephen hawking or people with prosthetic or robot hand

recomended?? what i recomend is to abstain from all those animal things the best u can
i recomend to all of you to abstain from sex!

btw anal sex is not prohibited with your supose, wife or husband
how could you tell if im a man or woman?

is that only a man who could talk about these thing??
is woman unable to talk about these?

[rararanran]

the first haram is something which is zalim thing to other human and god tell us about human realm or other human punishment for it, and prohibition for it

the second is not actually a haram or prohibition thing because this is seomthing that only god who will judge and will punish, so its up to individual to consider gamble, beer, polygamy, divorce,etc is haram or not. god only say about the bad things or cons about those things.

but if people in society make an agreement and regulation about it its okay but just dont take god or prophet name about those regulation, its human regulation

[imrankhawaja]

btw anal sex is not prohibited with your supose, wife or husband
how could you tell if im a man or woman?

if something is not mention is the list of haram, doesnt necessarily means you are allowed to do it...(in general)
like speaking a lie?
can save a life or speaking a truth can take a life too.. but as i told earlier i dnt want to go offtopic... (about haram)

its totally morality and immorality always like

dark and light
haram(disallowed/prohibted) and halal(allowed/not prohibted)
neg and positive
good and evil
moral and immoral
right and wrong
true and false like 1+1 = 2 true... =3 false...

BOLD part yeh i dnt know who you are?
but thats not important ...

about anal sex and blowjobs its depends on the moral value of individual i cant comment on it..
but every body really knows the difference between neat and clean , and hygience stuff...
some people are neat and clean while other appeared to take less care about it...

but God like people are who clean (somewhere mention in scripture too)

making anal sex allowed is a big claim without any evidence from quran in hand...

[rararanran]

if something is not mention is the list of haram, doesnt necessarily means you are allowed to do it...(in general)
like speaking a lie?
can save a life or speaking a truth can take a life too.. but as i told earlier i dnt want to go offtopic... (about haram)

its totally morality and immorality always like

dark and light
haram(disallowed/prohibted) and halal(allowed/not prohibted)
neg and positive
good and evil
moral and immoral
right and wrong
true and false like 1+1 = 2 true... =3 false...

BOLD part yeh i dnt know who you are?
but thats not important ...

about anal sex and blowjobs its depends on the moral value of individual i cant comment on it..
but every body really knows the difference between neat and clean , and hygience stuff...
some people are neat and clean while other appeared to take less care about it...

but God like people are who clean (somewhere mention in scripture too)

making anal sex allowed is a big claim without any evidence from quran in hand...

and now you are like a hadist people haraming thing which is not told in quran
who said anal is haram you or god?
even tough i dont like anal and even my self considered it as immoral,
its not prohibited in quran, so dont say if its a haram thing okay

even prophet are not allowed to say haram to something which is not in quran

and who said lying is not haram? the punishment is to not believe those person again
until he ask the other party forgiveness, and test them if he/she is not lie anymore

lying even cause death is a lie, what the difference?? u make it complicated

because moral and immorality is relative but quran is not
everything is already there in detail

[Rana_Hafiz]

This is the severe drawback in the existing translations of the Quran. Unfortunately the whole Quran has been translated without reasoning and even without looking at the words of the Quran. This is correct that Iranian culture and our upbringing has changed the understanding of the Quran and we take each and every statement of the Quran according to our beliefs which could be wrong. The truth should come out whether it matches with our personal belief or not. I appreciate those thoughtful people who do their best to bring out the truth without looking back.

[imrankhawaja]

and now you are like a hadist people haraming thing which is not told in quran
who said anal is haram you or god?

read my all posts again and tell me a single thing i claim its haram...

i did not claim its haram .

you claim its allowed , burden of proof is on you.. either you bring a reference for your claim it would be sufficent...

i said i consider it as an immoral act and God dnt like immorality...

even tough i dont like anal and even my self considered it as immoral,
its not prohibited in quran, so dont say if its a haram thing okay

well its good you know the dfference between immoral and moral
thats what we are actually discussing....

lying even cause death is a lie, what the difference?? u make it complicated

its not complicated i actually told you the moral values of speaking lie and truth according to a situation

example telling a truth to kid about his drawing is horrible is not a moral thing
a person is running for his life.. and hide in your house ,,, and if you speak lie , its a moral thing... u saved a life..

[rararanran]

if something is not mention is the list of haram, doesnt necessarily means you are allowed to do it...(in general)

?? confusing if it doesnt necessarily means you are allowed to do it then, it means not allowed right?

read my all posts again and tell me a single thing i claim its haram...

i did not claim its haram .

you claim its allowed , burden of proof is on you.. either you bring a reference for your claim it would be sufficent...

i said i consider it as an immoral act and God dnt like immorality...

its you who should refrence out if god dnt like immorality and anal is not allowed thing,

my base is
16116

and, for what your tongues describe, do not utter the lie, (saying) this is lawful and this is unlawful, in order to forge a lie against allah; surely those who forge the lie against allah shall not prosper

587

o you who believe! do not forbid (yourselves) the good things which allah has made lawful for you and do not exceed the limits; surely allah does not love those who exceed the limits (sex outside marriage)

2223

Your wives are as fields for you. You may enter your fields from any place you want. Reserve something good for your souls (for the life hereafter). Have fear of God and know that you are going to meet Him. give the glad news to the believers.

as long your supose agreed and have no problem with that, and do not foce her

and alot of hadist forbid anal intercourse with ur supose, like this one

It was narrated that Ibn ?Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said ?Allaah will not look at a man who has intercourse with a woman in her back passage.? Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1165); classed as saheeh by Ibn Daqeeq al-?Eid in al-Ilmaam (2/660) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

i dont like any sex, im abstaining from it, but it is what it is, anal sex is allowed with your supose

[rararanran]

lying to save life, lie is a lie
but only god who will judge

and haram means its got a direct impact to any other human,
and if the person u lie to know that u are lying, he will not trust u anymore
and u will ask forgiveness, so they will trust u again
and they will surely test u if will not lie anymore, thats what haram mean

and if u lie to save life then is it a lie or a saving life,
i say its saving life with doing haram thing which is lying,

will you get sin from god or enter hell, or will u got pahala n enter heaven, its only god who judge
but with those human u will surely take those haram punishment in human realm by other human

but my self i dont care if a bad guy who want to hurt other person eill not trust me anymore,
and im saving other people life,
i will lie if im faced with that circumstence, but the lie is still lie and it is haram

[rararanran]

back to the title

if someone said a sex outside marriage is not haram (degenerating you and no god and human punishment?)

then ask them,
1.so is it okay to have an un transgressed incest sex with your sister/brother or your parents
because we are not married to them.

2.is it okay to have multi sex (threesome etc)

3.if the one woman get pregnant after doing threesome, how you detrrmind the father of that child,
because in the future this child of threesome sex might meet a girl or boy which is his/her own brother and they might get married as an inchest

4.is it okay to have incest marriage

and in biology inchest will bring a degenerated genetic of human

my belief is,

1. marriage is an oath to make sex legal between two party man and woman
   2.and an oath must have a witness, minimum is four
   3.a marriage oath cannot be done in secreet
   4.having boy friend n girl friend n flirting is permissable IF they have a plan to get married at first, and they cannot transgress
   5.its not talking about slave but talking to have sex with your right hand (masturbation)
   6.and masturbating other person outside marriage got half punishment
   7.covering your reproduction, ask animal why they didnt cover it

"be higer human, dont downgrade ur self as an animal
the distinction of human and animal is on their brain thinking mind
dnot only follow your desire of animal part without brain,
by doing sex outside marriage, polygamy, incest
if u have mind but acting like animal, you are defenerating ur self lower than animal"

may god bless us and make us into higer being to the higer heaven nirvana

one more, god tell us an oath of transaction and deal must be written

human is an animal being with higer way of thingking by using their brain, the more you get lose from this animal body the better, thats why higer intellectual people prefer abstain from sex,

and people with higer knowledge got more higer degree in god sight

polygamy, drunk, gamble, not covering ur body part especialy your jewelry n your genitals
is not prohibited
but those things will degenerated you as human, even prophet want to avoid it

sex outside marriage is haram and transgressing the gods law
100 lashes in public, humiliation only (make adulters ashamed)

masturbating other person outside marriage is haram and transgressing gods law
50 lashes in public, humiliation only (making the blowjobers/handjobers ashamed)

thats the punishment in human realm,
but at the after life its god who judge, and maybe god will still put you in heaven
and give you pahala, or not its god who judge at the after life

only god know and know more then ur self know inside ur heart
may god bless us all

[imrankhawaja]

its you who should refrence out if god dnt like immorality and anal is not allowed thing,

728 And if they commit immorality, they say "We found our fathers doing such, and God ordered us to it." Say "God does not order immorality! Do you say about God what you do not know?"

my base is
16116

and, for what your tongues describe, do not utter the lie, (saying) this is lawful and this is unlawful, in order to forge a lie against allah; surely those who forge the lie against allah shall not prosper

exactly , saying something lawful without knowledge is a lie against God..

587

o you who believe! do not forbid (yourselves) the good things which allah has made lawful for you and do not exceed the limits; surely allah does not love those who exceed the limits (sex outside marriage)

so you are thinking anal sex is good thing thats y its lawful...

you better read the side effects of anal sex before you declare something good...

2223

Your wives are as fields for you. You may enter your fields from any place you want. Reserve something good for your souls (for the life hereafter). Have fear of God and know that you are going to meet Him. give the glad news to the believers.

what do you mean by fields ...
is the field is from where you get your seed develop..?

if you mean by position then its understandable , but if you are changing holes like oral or anal then i would like you to advice one thing read and then understand carefully take your time... and you based your claims due to poor understanding of verses..

try to understand what field is and what space is...

[imrankhawaja]

anyways , coming back to the topic. i wonder people did not study quran how it should be study ..

now see if i just go one verse back before any wishful thinking of anal sex what i found in 223 i find it illogical ... in other words for intelligent person its like 2+2 = 4

2222 And they ask you about the menstruations? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruations, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed.

first of all what a verse number.. triple 2 , a gun lol

ok anyway... i want my brothers to focus on this and understand what is the actual message...

if somebody still claim anal sex during menstruations or in normal days, is not forbidden its mean they are clearly on wrong path..

focus on the "colors" message is in great detail...

but if something already happened due to ignorance then God is always forgiving and merciful.....

God bless you all

[rararanran]

i think its up to the intelligence of other person ..

dnt worry you will get use to it slowly slowly...

and yeh i do spelling mistakes more than normal , but in exams i was worried about it due to the marking .
here i m not worried i can understand , if i do spell mistakes it wont effect the message...

but i m impressed from your intelligence with in two three days you are able to judge everybody and you are intelligent enough to write a long post to admins regarding their fault... bravo i m impressed by your intelligence and judging skills...

what i dnt understand is , you are not intelligent enough to understand my easy posts... you can always ask me if you confuse about anything

peace