Note on 4:34 and Sam Gerrans.
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We all criticize our own governments' crimes. But he is silent on Putin and uses the exact words used against those who reject Putin's ideology. One of those words is "liberal".
What my personal stance is, there is no good or bad government, they are all opressors, Putin or the US government, it does not matter, they are all criminals to the core. Putin used to blow houses in Moscow in '99 https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings and did countless of other crimes / US government faked 9/11 and did countless of other crimes against humanity including nuclear bombings of peaceful citizens in August of '45.
You cannot base the government relying on the Quran alone. You need hadiths and many additional side-literature in order to form the government and bureauracy. Quran is simply not enough to build an oppresive machine. I know what I am talking about. They tried to get me in the army in my country, I had a year long bureaucratic war, and in the end I did not go to army. Next, they wanted to force me for the so called alternative duty, i.e. they wanted me to work for a year in some junkie centre, they lost that too. There is no way I am giving oath and serve the criminals, just because I was born where I was born. It was random I was born in my country, I could be born in the elite family or I could be born in south africa, it does not matter.
Quran is also not about solely personal salvation as Gerrans states, it is about forming the community of believers. Community vs government there is a huge difference. One is ran by the leaders who can be replaced any time by the community, the other is based on electoral scams or scams based on the family right to rule (monarchy). One is about people working together, helping each other, where each member of the community is doing his work, there are no parasites, even disabled people will have place in the community. The government is about slaves and parasites. Slaves work, parasites consume goods by welfare. These devils wanted to get me in just such an organization, in the junkie centre where I would feed and take care of parasites who do not work, but who survive because they are granted welfare from the people who do work.
Why I believe Quran is not solely about personal salvation but also about the community of belivers is because it was revealed to the community and there are multiple verses which state how the communtiy should act in various situation, including punishment of adulturers, dealing with wartime captives, punishing thieves, protecting itself against opressors et cetera.
I consider this thread to be important. We have the right to know if a person is up to something suspicious in the name of what we believe before that person exploits it and it becomes too late for
Regarding Gerran's interpretation of 434, it makes no sense in the context if 'beat' or 'spank' is provided in the verse. My first message to him clearly shows how many questions there occurs in case we use beat. Suddenly, if we use leave, no questions arrise, at least not that many questions, it makes clear sense that after a man stopped sleeping with her and she is still arrogant, they should initiate divorce process, which is described in 435, just after the previous verse. In case we use beat, it does not explain what will happen AFTER that. I mean, what is the point of beating her in case it is about time they signed divorce? There is no point.
Now, regarding Gerran's traditional argument that wife beating helps preserve the families. I believe families are important only in case there are children involved, because growing up in the broken family creates risk of various deviation in child development. Other than that, families are not important in the Quran, it is better to stay celibate and do righteous deeds. The following verse comes to mind 828, 1846, 3437.
But most people fail at celibacy and therefore they are seeking for a spouse, naturally. That is all right but people make mistakes and often marry a wrong person. Just like a woman may marry a wrong man. Can she beat him to counter his arrogance? You can beat the pride out of a woman and make her zombie, but that is not righteous, this is oppression, which will not establish a happy family.
Regarding women who like forceful men. I might say a bizarre thing, but let's be perfectly honest here, a lot of modern women clearly hint they like force, physical force. They also dream of being r-word. I myself have met such women, if you treat them too lightly they abandon you, 100%.
BUT
That is not the way women are created biologically, that is not their nature. This is social programming. In the last century before the 60's reforms, namely sexual revolution, women were raised in patriarchal families and they were, for the most part, obedient to their husbands, but not everywhere it was the same. Chicago of the '20's-30's during the great depression was full of feminists, for instance, who danced in cabaret, drank with men, smoked cigars and had unlimited sex. But fpr the most part families everywhere including the West were patriarchal.
These days, however, women are told they are free, but certain social programming processes, namely dirt such as erotics and pornography, create in them fantasies about being molested, beaten and even raped. That has nothing to do with
A) Biology of women, because that is cultural not biological;
B) Normal. That is not normal, because that is social programming and psychological deviation;
C) It is certainly not Quranic, read 2229, divorces must be peaceful.
I also stated in this thread earlier that I belive some women actually deserve to be beaten not less than men, but what does it have to do with Quranic family? In 2221 Quran clearly says about avoiding marriage with women who are not of Quranic backgrounds, because they may be accostumed to certain cultural practices that are against God's revelation to the people. For instance, women who are not believers can be polygamous, i.e. adulturers. As I pointed out in my message to Gerran's, in 425 Quran says that whoever of believers cannot marry a free believing woman he is allowed to marry a girl of non-Quranic background (that is my personal interpretation, I yet have to look more into 425) , and if she commits adultery, for her it is half of punishment of believing women. What kind of half-beating must they have in 434 then?
Sam also says that his 434 is in the context of 429, that these set of verses are specifically targeted to the people who believe. Is he saying that all other verses, including 425, do not play a role in 434? That is Quranism and that is seldom different from Islamic abrogation of verses, where they abrogated some verses in the name of Sunna and hadiths.
Summing up the above, not only is Gerrans's interpretation of 434 flawed, it is base don TRADITIONAL sources and mindset. In 2170 God clearly says
And when it is said to them, "Follow what Allah has revealed," they say, "Rather, we will follow that which we found our fathers doing." Even though their fathers understood nothing, nor were they guided?
Therefore, following traditions is not a smart move when you have Quran. Wife beating is still practiced even in the liberal west, in some junkie families. There are many totally stupid stuff happening in many places, such as women falsely accuse a man of rape because he ignores her or rejects her, and this man most of the time has no legal ground to be protected of false accusations. But what is happening everywhere does not mean that believers should copy it.
Even if Gerrans is correct, he should establish a more Quranic basis of his argumentation of 434. Right now the only Quranic basis is lingusitic one, but languages do change. Who knows what Arabic roots meant back then. I am sure most of you who speak English natively cannot talk proto-Germanic or Middle English. I am not saying everything in the Quran is about some other Arabic language, but context plays an important role in the analysis of verses, and Gerrans clearly missed the context, despite claiming otherwise.
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hey guys i just read a little bit of this person work, (SAM GERRRANS)
and interestingly he believes in flat earth yay brickwall ignoreand he try to drive his theory based on the initials of chapters too
but as soon i read his views on flat earth, i lost my interest reading more of his work.. -
hey guys i just read a little bit of this person work, (SAM GERRRANS)
and interestingly he believes in flat earth yay brickwall ignoreand he try to drive his theory based on the initials of chapters too
but as soon i read his views on flat earth, i lost my interest reading more of his work..Peace,
"The earth is a sphere; it spins through space while orbiting the sun, hurtling thousands of kilometers an hour inside our Milky Way Galaxy." http//www.pic4ever.com/images/3110.gifA lie told often enough becomes the truth. - Vladimir Lenin http//www.pic4ever.com/images/wcsmiley.gif
"If one speaks of the words "Flat Earth", listeners snicker. The mental reflect of a flat plane from which a person might fall into an infinite space, creates this disrespect. A globe earth, because unproven.. is pseudoscience, yet believed worldwide and passed from generation to generation, and any who question it.. is mocked and ridiculed."
Earth is flat. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
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A lie told often enough becomes the truth. - Vladimir Lenin http//www.pic4ever.com/images/wcsmiley.gif
Except not a single proof exists that Lenin actually said it ;D. By stating people believe in round Earth because it is passed from generation to generation you fall into the same trap by attributing random quotes to people that probably never said so, because these quotes are common on the Internet, whereas sources are never referenced. Not to mention the same 'repeated lie' can be attributed to the Flat Earth theory, the same mechanism which started the whole thing.
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Except not a single proof exists that Lenin actually said it ;D. By stating people believe in round Earth because it is passed from generation to generation you fall into the same trap by attributing random quotes to people that probably never said so, because these quotes are common on the Internet, whereas sources are never referenced. Not to mention the same 'repeated lie' can be attributed to the Flat Earth theory, the same mechanism which started the whole thing.
Peace,
That's not the point, I didn't quote him to provide a proof. The quote itself is pretty understandable. Where's the harm in the quote?
Only those of weak faith are troubled by things that challenge their views. You can't have it both ways. It's either the Qur'an, or science. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/consoling2.gif
http//www.pic4ever.com/images/earthhug.gif http//www.pic4ever.com/images/15.gifWhat my personal stance is, there is no good or bad government, they are all opressors, Putin or the US government, it does not matter, they are all criminals to the core. Putin used to blow houses in Moscow in '99 https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings and did countless of other crimes / US government faked 9/11 and did countless of other crimes against humanity including nuclear bombings of peaceful citizens in August of '45.
The same can be said for you when you reference wikipedia. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/sigh.gif
496 - O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
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Peace,
That's not the point, I didn't quote him to provide a proof. The quote itself is pretty understandable. Where's the harm in the quote?As long as you do not claim it is attributed to someone, when in fact its not.
The same can be said for you when you reference wikipedia. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/sigh.gif
Uum, first of all, wikipedia includes sources and was given as a basic source to acknowledge on this particular event. There is also documentary on how the FSB tried to hide the facts and they several times changed their official position on the issue once it turned out their initial fairytale did not work and the community exposed them.
Here is the documentary in English https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sx2YmSXDy8
Secondly, this wiki article contains various views, including those of Western scholars, so it is quite an okay source for someone outside of Eastern-European and Russian background to get a quick information on bombings in Russia in 1999.
496 - O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
So why don't you investigate the origin of the quote before posting it ? Is your belief in the flat earth theory based on the same populism as the Internet quotes?
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As long as you do not claim it is attributed to someone, when in fact its not.
So why don't you investigate the origin of the quote before posting it ? Is your belief in the flat earth theory based on the same populism as the Internet quotes?
Peace,
A lie told often enough becomes the truth. - Garfield http//www.pic4ever.com/images/25r30wi.gif
Better? Author of the quote means nothing to me, the quote speaks volumes.Tell me, would you have said the same thing if I didn't include the author? Ponder over that. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/34y5mvr.gif
Secondly, this wiki article contains various views, including those of Western scholars, so it is quite an okay source for someone outside of Eastern-European and Russian background to get a quick information on bombings in Russia in 1999.
an okay source = Facts? Where did you acquire this knowledge? http//www.pic4ever.com/images/298.gif
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Tell me, would you have said the same thing if I didn't include the author? Ponder over that. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/34y5mvr.gif
Yeah, because you don't know the context of the quote, you don't know who said it, perhaps Hitler or Goebbels, in fact this quote is often attributed to them, and you don't know why was it said. As I said, the flat earth theory became popular probably by the same means how famous propagandists brainwashed masses and used the same technique, which is quite described in the quote you used.
an okay source = Facts? Where did you acquire this knowledge? http//www.pic4ever.com/images/298.gif
Read my post again and do your own research, there are plenty of facts.
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Yeah, because you don't know the context of the quote, you don't know who said it, perhaps Hitler or Goebbels, in fact this quote is often attributed to them, and you don't know why was it said. As I said, the flat earth theory became popular probably by the same means how famous propagandists brainwashed masses and used the same technique, which is quite described in the quote you used.
Peace,
So if I state a quote, it has to conform with the author's beliefs? No thanks, this is me stating it for MY reasons. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/gen152.gif5338 - None can carry the burdens of another.
Earth is flat. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
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Peace,
So if I state a quote, it has to conform with the author's beliefs? No thanks, this is me stating it for MY reasons. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/gen152.gifYou can say it in your own words, otherwise you are just chasing popular misquotes to make it look like as if it is something relevant.
Earth is flat. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
Okay, a guy who either has a degree in physics or has seen the ice wall and the edge of the world says the Earth is flat . Whatever. This thread is dedicated to Sam Gerran's interpretation of 434, if you want to start a thread on the flat Earth theory please do so and tell me why exactly the Earth is flat. And there we can have a discussion, you are free to do so. I just don't want this thread to be buried under unrelated posts.
P.S. I am not disrespecting flateathers, God knows best, but I won't claim something is wrong or right as long as I do not have a clue on the subject.
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You can say it in your own words, otherwise you are just chasing popular misquotes to make it look like as if it is something relevant.
Peace,
If it isn't a popular quote, then it's irrelevant? Try reasoning. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/1657.gifOkay, a guy who either has a degree in physics or has seen the ice wall and the edge of the world says the Earth is flat . Whatever. This thread is dedicated to Sam Gerran's interpretation of 434, if you want to start a thread on the flat Earth theory please do so and tell me why exactly the Earth is flat. And there we can have a discussion, you are free to do so. I just don't want this thread to be buried under unrelated posts.
P.S. I am not disrespecting flateathers, God knows best, but I won't claim something is wrong or right as long as I do not have a clue on the subject.
He belives in chemtrails conspiracy, flat earth and many other opinions, which oppose official stances on some events. This is not to critisize Sam, but just to point out what kind of person he is.
You brought up the flat earth yourself.. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/no.gif
6712 - As for those who are concerned towards their Lord while unseen, they have attained forgiveness and a great reward.
God will expose the plotters, and the signs are clear.- Without a globe earth circling the sun through the far reaches of space, we do not have the BIG BANG.
- Without the Big Bang, we do not have EVOLUTION.
- Without evolution, we are more likely to accept creation as an act of intelligent design by a DIVINE CREATOR.
Earth is flat, brother. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
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Peace,
If it isn't a popular quote, then it's irrelevant? Try reasoning. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/1657.gifNo, you just make it look like relevant by adding Vladimir Lenin, without any previous research whatsoever. I remember when I was following Muslims and people used to quote fake hadiths on women tears and how God counts them. Even to my ears I could see that it was written specifically for contemporary social networks and have no historical or spiritual background, yet the sheep massively quoted it because it sounded cool.
Your quote has nothing to do with proof of flath Earth. In fact, it only proves how theories like flat Earth arise = they are propagated on the Internet and once enough people believe these dubious claims it automatically becomes a miracle or 'truth' for them, because they believe if they unite while believing it, it automatically becomes true.
https//ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D1%8B%D1%88%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5
You brought up the flat earth yourself.. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/no.gif
So? It was relevant because we discussed views of Gerrans. And Gerrans is one of those people for whom it is enough to hear some random talk in the convincing tone to believe something.
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No, you just make it look like relevant by adding Vladimir Lenin, without any previous research whatsoever. I remember when I was following Muslims and people used to quote fake hadiths on women tears and how God counts them. Even to my ears I could see that it was written specifically for contemporary social networks and have no historical or spiritual background, yet the sheep massively quoted it because it sounded cool.
Your quote has nothing to do with proof of flath Earth. In fact, it only proves how theories like flat Earth arise = they are propagated on the Internet and once enough people believe these dubious claims it automatically becomes a miracle or 'truth' for them, because they believe if they unite while believing it, it automatically becomes true.
https//ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%BC%D1%8B%D1%88%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5
So? It was relevant because we discussed views of Gerrans. And Gerrans is one of those people for whom it is enough to hear some random talk in the convincing tone to believe something.
Peace,
This is how my mind works regarding this quote. "If Vladimir Lenin has said that, then he speaks the truth." That quote can be said about anything e.g. How most muslims are being deceived by hadiths. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/reading.gif
You speak of research, yet go on to sayP.S. I am not disrespecting flateathers, God knows best, but I won't claim something is wrong or right as long as I do not have a clue on the subject.
You like to research on topics that interest you but ignore other logical matters? http//www.pic4ever.com/images/nocomment.gif
I could see that it was written specifically for contemporary social networks and have no historical or spiritual background, yet the sheep massively quoted it because it sounded cool.
Man made history doesn't interest me, only the Qur'an's history. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
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Earth is flat. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
exactly ... peace
just wanted you to answer these questions if you can
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608757.msg393695#msg393695
interestingly wakas also asked four similar questions from one of the flat earth expert pazazu and he run like zebera lol
and there are more than enough flat earth threads why not carry a discussion there ..
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You like to research on topics that interest you but ignore other logical matters? http//www.pic4ever.com/images/nocomment.gif
Citing random quotes has nothing to do with logic. You are just desperately trying to defend your point, but it is clear a fancy quote is enough for you to make a point as long as its content is relevant to you, without even looking at the source of the quote or its context. In case the quote is a reference to the fascisting propagandist such as Goebbels, then how can you be sure that the modern FET movement was not created by the same means?
Regarding the logic, one definition of logic, which comes to mind is "interrelation or sequence of facts or events". You said, for instance
- Without a globe earth circling the sun through the far reaches of space, we do not have the BIG BANG.
- Without the Big Bang, we do not have EVOLUTION.
- Without evolution, we are more likely to accept creation as an act of intelligent design by a DIVINE CREATOR.
Excuse me? Just what?!? We would not have scientific theories if the Earth was proved to be stationary? Scientific observations were around in any civilization. Even early Muslim scholars, notably Ibn Sina and al-Razi were scientists. And how evolution is even related to the big bang? Evolution i.e. how organisms change over time have nothing to do with the process of Creation of living organism. If God created Universe by the means of big bang, that is all right, but it has nothing to do with stationary Earth. You are not being consistent.
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exactly ... peace
just wanted you to answer these questions if you can
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9608757.msg393695#msg393695
interestingly wakas also asked four similar questions from one of the flat earth expert pazazu and he run like zebera lol
and there are more than enough flat earth threads why not carry a discussion there ..
Peace,
Your questions regarding flat earth are similar to the hadithers who go on to ask about how they'd need to pray if not for hadiths, and all the other questions surrounding their bemused faces. You mentioned flat earth before me, take your own advice before advicing others, eh?Citing random quotes has nothing to do with logic. You are just desperately trying to defend your point, but it is clear a fancy quote is enough for you to make a point as long as its content is relevant to you, without even looking at the source of the quote or its context. In case the quote is a reference to the fascisting propagandist such as Goebbels, then how can you be sure that the modern FET movement was not created by the same means?
Peace,
As long as its content is relevant to my reasons, yeah. You have an issue with that? I don't care for the source because I know its source cannot be proven as a fact, unlike you.. who believes in wikipedia sources. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/3110.gifExcuse me? Just what?!? We would not have scientific theories if the Earth was proved to be stationary? Scientific observations were around in any civilization. Even early Muslim scholars, notably Ibn Sina and al-Razi were scientists. And how evolution is even related to the big bang? Evolution i.e. how organisms change over time have nothing to do with the process of Creation of living organism. If God created Universe by the means of big bang, that is all right, but it has nothing to do with stationary Earth. You are not being consistent.
Thought you had no clue on the subject?
The muslim scholars you mentioned, I don't care for either. I cannot uphold what I have no knowledge of.
Maybe you should tread carefully on who's sources you read from outside of the Qur'an. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif -
As long as its content is relevant to my reasons, yeah. You have an issue with that? I don't care for the source because I know its source cannot be proven as a fact, unlike you.. who believes in wikipedia sources. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/3110.gif
Please provide a single proof of where I said I believe wikipedia sources. What I said, however, is that wikipedia is a good place to start, as long as you want and if you don't want to have more information on the mentioned events, why even bother mentioning it? And you can also use sources which wikipedia article refers to.
The muslim scholars you mentioned, I don't care for either. I cannot uphold what I have no knowledge of.
Then why do you state the Earth is flat, without any knowledge besides the talks around the FET community? As for the Muslim scientists , I say Muslim because these guys were around the Golden Muslim Age. And some of their works, including Al-Qanun fi t-Tibb I have read . It is always nice to see how they addressed medicine back then. What is wrong with reading and expanding your worldview ?
Maybe you should tread carefully on who's sources you read from outside of the Qur'an. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
I actually do, by checking the sources. Why do you think I've brought up the issue with random quotes in the first place? Because this mechanism works the same way any propaganda does, including spread of hadiths. As long as people lack the critical thinking, they will believe anything as long as it sounds fancy to them.
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Please provide a single proof of where I said I believe wikipedia sources. What I said, however, is that wikipedia is a good place to start, as long as you want and if you don't want to have more information on the mentioned events, why even bother mentioning it? And you can also use sources which wikipedia article refers to.
Peace,
You didn't particularly say it, but it showed from your passion regarding Putin's crimes in which you had no knowledge of except from your external readings. Citing wikipedia as if that'd back your claims.Then why do you state the Earth is flat, without any knowledge besides the talks around the FET community? As for the Muslim scholars, I say Muslim because these guys were around the Golden Muslim Age. And some of their works, including Al-Qanun fi t-Tibb I have read . It is always nice to see how they addressed medicine back then. What is wrong with reading and expanding your worldview ?
I actually do, by checking the sources. Why do you think I've brought up the issue with random quotes in the first place? Because this mechanism works the same way any propaganda does, including spread of hadiths. As long as people lack the critical thinking, they will believe anything as long as it sounds fancy to them.
Actually, I see the flat horizon through my own EYES. Are you going to tell me my eyes are flawed now?
Your claims of Putin's crimes are dubious too if I must say. There's nothing you can say to prove his crimes.
Seems like you're not concerned towards God of these logical facts. You could still embark on this journey to seeking the truth, but only God can attest to that.
Because of that mechanism? Just like how you lack the critical thinking in trusting your sources. You still can't answer on how that quote would harm anyone, your comparison for hadiths has no correlation to a simple quote. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/4hu5109.gif -
Peace,
You didn't particularly say it, but it showed from your passion regarding Putin's crimes in which you had no knowledge of except from your external readings. Citing wikipedia as if that'd back your claims.Your claims of Putin's crimes are dubious too if I must say. There's nothing you can say to prove his crimes.
That is seldom an argument. You write because you want to write something without any reasoning? I said wikipedia is a good place to start. I've also added a documentary of bombings in 1999, which is factural and convincing enough. And which you probably did not even watch. Plus I probably know more about power and corruption in Russia to claim certain things. He was the director of FSB in 1998 and for the most of his career he was strongly associated with this criminal organization. The bombings in September 1999 were an obvious excuse to penetrate Chechnya for the second Chechen war, which started in October 1999.
Regarding the knowledge, that is true, I do not have access to some knowledge, because I am not there when bombings and evil plots are made. But it does not exclude reasoning, search for the facts and research. But at least I have reliable information to back up my claims, which FET followers barely do.
Actually, I see the flat horizon through my own EYES. Are you going to tell me my eyes are flawed now?
Oreally'? I too see the flat horizon, while standing on the ground... This paper gives some overview of curvature http//thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf
Because of that mechanism? Just like how you lack the critical thinking in trusting your sources. You still can't answer on how that quote would harm anyone, your comparison for hadiths has no correlation to a simple quote. http//www.pic4ever.com/images/4hu5109.gif
It is actually quite correlated. By blindly accepting a quote with an added reference to Lenin you act the same way as hadith believers do when they are presented with fancy stories with dubious authorship.
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Regarding the knowledge, that is true, I do not have access to some knowledge, because I am not there when bombings and evil plots are made. But it does not exclude reasoning, search for the facts and research. But at least I have reliable information to back up my claims, which TEF followers barely do.
Oreally'? I too see the flat horizon, while standing on the ground... This paper gives some overview of curvature http//thulescientific.com/Lynch%20Curvature%202008.pdf
It is actually quite correlated. By blindly accepting a quote with an added reference to Lenin you act the same way as hadith believers do when they are presented with fancy stories with dubious authorship.
Peace, http//www.pic4ever.com/images/kaffeetrinker_2.gif
You have nothing except man made science research.
Math is a human construct. It proves nothing.
God blesses humans with blessings and wisdom, yet they boastfully place their achievements on their doings. They are nothing without God's blessings and wisdom.
"This paper gives some overview of curvature" So does my toiletpaper. Nothing but man made inventions.