How to overcome the sin of lust/temptation
-
Peace JavaLatte and everyone,
@ Hiroshi
Do you know how to treat the root cause of lust?
Maybe you cold tell us more (explain) about it.
To me, it seems that it is possible to treat the root cause of lust and overcome the sin of lust once and for all. It seems that if someone treats the root cause of of lust, then he/she will never give in to lust by doing shameful/lewd actions/deeds (outside of commitment/marriage). Therefore, it appears that if someone treats the root cause of lust, then he/she will no longer watch sexual scenes in Hollywood movies (on purpose/intentionally) and he/she will no longer watch pictures of the opposite sex with little clothes on (on purpose/intentionally).
In my next post in this thread, I will share some paragraphs from a book that explains how to treat the root cause of lust. I will also share some of my thoughts and views/opinions regarding a paragraph from the book. In my view, "the law of cause an effect" is real/true. It seems that if one ignores the root cause of a problem, one will ignore it at ones own peril. One the other hand, if one discovers the root cause of a problem, then it seems that one can eliminate the effects of that problem. Therefore, it seems that if one discovers the root cause of lust, then one can eliminate the effects of lust (shameful/lewd actions/deeds).
-
Peace everyone,
I have found/discovered another book that sheds light on the topic/subject of lust. The title of the book is The Practical Works of Richard Baxter Volume 1 A Christian Directory. The book is written by the christian theologian and writer Richard Baxter. I think that Richard Baxter's book has some interesting and insightful/enlightening information regarding the topic/subject of lust. And I think that his book complements Hamza Yusuf's book very well. Anyway, I'd like to share a few paragraphs from his book with you.
A few paragraphs from page 336-337 in the book
..Withdraw the fuel of excess and the fire of lust will itself go out; or at least this enemy must be besieged and starved out, when it cannot be conquered by storm.
...Idleness is the soil, the culture, and the opportunity of lust. The idle person goeth to school to the devil; he sets all other employment aside, that the devil may have time to teach him, and treat with him, and solicit him to evil. Do you wonder that he is thinking on lustful objects, or that he is taken up in feasting and drinking, in chambering and wantonness? why he has nothing else to do whereas a laborious, diligent person hath a body subdued and hardened against against the mollities, the effeminateness of the wanton; and a mind employed and taken up with better things. Leave thy body and mind no leisure to think of tempting, filthy objects, or to look after them. As Hierom saith, Facito aliquid operis, ul semper diabolus invenial te occupalum Be still doing some work, that the devil may always find thee busy. And do not for thy fleshly ease remit thy labour and indulge thy flesh. Rise early and go late to bed, and put thyself upon a necessity of diligence all the day undertake and engage thyself in as much business as thou art able to go through, that if thou wouldst, thou mayst not be able to give any indulgence to the flesh; for if thou be not still pressed by necessity, lust will serve itself by idleness, and the flesh will lie down if it feel not the spur therefore are the rich and idle more lustful and filthy than the poor labouring people. The same bed is the place of sloth and lust. Hear a heathen, and refuse not to imitate him. Seneca saith, No day passeth me in idleness part of the night I reserve for studies I do not purposely set myself to sleep, but yield to it when it overcometh me; and when my eyes are wearied with watching, and are falling, I hold them to their word - I had rather it went ill with me than delicately or tenderly. If thou be delicate or tender, the mind by little and little is effeminate. and dissolved into the similitude of the idleness and sloth in which it lieth. I sleep very little, and take but a short nap it sufficeth me to have ceased watching sometimes I know that I slept, sometimes I do but suspect it. Aristotle saith, Nature made nothing to be idle. And Plato calls idleness the plague of mortals. If thou be resolved to serve and please thy flesh, then never ask advice against thy lust; for it is part of the pleasure of it; and then no wonder if thou refuse this physic as too bitter, and the remedy as too dear. But if thou be resolved to be cured and to be saved, stick not at the pains give up thyself totally to thy business, and lust will die for want of food.
...If thou wouldst be free from lust, keep far enough from the tempting object. If possible, dwell not in the house with any person that thou feelest thyself endangered by; if that be not possible, avoid their company, especially in private abhor all lascivious and immodest actions. Dost thou give thyself the liberty of wanton dalliance, and lustful embracements, and yet think to be free from lust? wilt thou put thy hand into the fire, when thou art afraid of being burnt? Either thou hast the power of thy own heart, or thou hast not if thou hast, why dost thou not quench thy lust? if thou hast not, why dost thou cast it upon greater temptations, and put it further out of thy power than it is? Fly from a tempting object for thy safety, as thou wouldst fly from an enemy for thy life. These loving enemies are more dangerous than hating enemies they get the key of our hearts, and come in and steal our treasure with our consent, or without resistance; when an open enemy is suspected and shut out.
...Command thy eyes, and, as Job xxxi.1, make a covenant with them, that thou mayst not think on tempting objects shut these windows, and preservest thy heart. Gaze not upon any alluring object. A look hath kindled that fire of lust in many a heart, that hath ended in the fire of hell. It is easier to stop lust at these outward doors, than drive it out when it hath tainted the heart. If thou canst not do this much, how canst thou do more? An ungoverned eye fetcheth fire to burn the soul that should have governed it.
By the way, the second sentence in the last paragraph above, seems to be in line with two verses in Al-Quran. In verse 2430 and 2431 in AQ, it commands men and women to lower their gaze.
Quran 2430-31 Tell the acknowledging men to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do. Tell the acknowledging women to lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and that they should not show off their attraction except what is apparent, and let them cast their clothes over their cleavage. Let them not show off their attraction except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the nakedness of women. Let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their attraction. Repent to God, all of you acknowledgers, so that you may succeed.
I think that there is a purpose/wisdom behind every commandment in Al-Quran. I don't think that the God commands us to do something without a purpose. The Quran suggests that our lord created the heavens and the earth with a purpose (see verse 3191 and 3827). Since God created the heavens and the earth with a purpose, then it seems that there must be a purpose/wisdom behind all of God's commandments as well. So what is the purpose/wisdom behind the commandment to lower ones gaze, in verse 2430-31? Is the Quran suggesting that lowering ones gaze will keep one chaste/pure ? Is the Quran suggesting that lowering ones gaze will hinder lustful emotions from appearing/developing in ones mind? If one does not lower ones gaze, can ones actions create lustful emotions in ones mind? And if lustful emotions are created in ones mind, will this lead to a state of lust? And if a state of lust appears, will the state of lust overpower ones soul/self, and sooner or later lead to lewd/shameful actions/deeds? I think that these questions are worth pondering upon.
-
There are two waays to teach people one is making them hate inmoral things, the other making them love mmoral things. Teh second is preferable to the first.
So is with lust too. We should push forward what is lovable about sex rather than dwell on ugly things. Of course warning is necessary para in ordr to make real lovers of goodness the proportion of raising the good to warning about the wrong and the proportion of encouragement by rearding the good over unishing th wrong should be in favour of the first as much as possible.
What is rewarding and worth of encouragement in sex? Whatever it is it will also keep people from wandering to the wrong things.
Salaam
-
There are two waays to teach people one is making them hate inmoral things, the other making them love mmoral things. Teh second is preferable to the first.
Yes. However, the human mind is more strongly motivated by avoidance of pain, than by achievement of pleasure. It's about programmed genetic mechanisms of survival.
To do anything, we need to first know WHY we should do it; there has to be a rational motivation, otherwise we simply won't do it. We have to buy into it, out of fear or out of desire.
Secondly, we need to understand how our minds work and that we are not victims. We should not work against our mind, but rather use it smartly, as an ally, to achieve our goals. We can do anything, if we really want to. But do we really want to? That's the question.
Also, we should not equate 'sin' with something evil. No need for such judgements. Sin is not something bad in itself, but rather it is something which will have negative consequences for us. If we see it like this, we can think about sin and the avoidance of sin more soberly and avoid getting down in swamps of guilt and shame.
-
There are two waays to teach people one is making them hate inmoral things, the other making them love mmoral things. Teh second is preferable to the first.
"Normal" people (discounting the Psychopath which is a minority in the current human population) doesn't need to be teached about morality, they have it embedded within themselves.
http//cdn.quotesgram.com/img/49/67/581169542-religion-and-morals.jpg
They need however a discouragement to be selfish, an encouragement to lower down their ego and think about others. Basically an encouragement or a reminder to always "Treat others as you like to be treated" as "What goes around shall come around". In this context, it is towards the sex partner or (potential) sex partner (or should I say "Sex Target" or the potential result of sexual activity (which is another human being).
What is rewarding and worth of encouragement in sex? Whatever it is it will also keep people from wandering to the wrong things.
SalaamFor normal adult people, which possess an adequate dose of healthy hormones, sex doesn't need any encouragement, just like eating food or drinking water doesn't need any encouragement.
Fight or Flee, Eating and Drinking and Sex..
The three emotions / instincts are governed by the highest ordered part of the (adult) human brain.
The first two are key for the survivability of the individual while the later is key for the survivability of the species.Sexual urge rise during the teenage period until adulthood and afterwards slowly decreasing as part of the aging process. Certainly there is no need to encourage sex activity towards children or "seniors".
Yes. However, the human mind is more strongly motivated by avoidance of pain, than by achievement of pleasure. It's about programmed genetic mechanisms of survival.
Correct, as saith above, fight or flee, eating and drinking has higher priority inside the normal (adult) human brain compared to sex. Nobody will feel horny when they feel that they're in danger or they are hungry or thirsty...
And human will kill another human being whenever he or she feel that the other human being(s) brings danger to their very own existence..
-
One thing though that is important is to teach kids basic stuff like respect. It's not ok when boys call girls 'whore' as a general insult. It's not OK to pinch someones bottom as a joke. Some stuff needs to be taught to children, but threatening with religious guilt and punishment is perhaps not very good.
-
Peace everyone,
Many muslims (submitters/peacemakers) believe that it is important to be chaste/pure. It seems that those muslims (submitters/peacemakers) who are chaste/pure can resist temptations better than those muslims (submitter/peacemakers) who do not give much importance to the notion of chastity/purity.
I have shared some of my thoughts about the notion of chastity/purity in a post in another thread in this forum. I'd like to share a link to my post here.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606642.msg380517#msg380517
-
One thing though that is important is to teach kids basic stuff like respect. It's not ok when boys call girls 'whore' as a general insult. It's not OK to pinch someones bottom as a joke. Some stuff needs to be taught to children, but threatening with religious guilt and punishment is perhaps not very good.
It's recommendable to teach the law of "Treat others as you would like to be treated" to kids..
Encouraging the development of "empathy" hormones within themselves.. at the early age..
Kids might not feel "pinching someone bottom" as a bad idea until they got "pinched" themselves.. thus they can learn by their own experience that it wasn't a very nice feelings to be "pinched"..Teaching or exposing them to "sadistic" things like crucifixion (like catholics often does), torture in hell etc.. must be avoided. It will discourage the growth of "empathy" hormones and it can also leave a bad marks to their future mental development.
An example from history..
Everyone knows Dracula, inspired by a real historical figure of Vlad Tepez where Tepez means "Impaler".
During his childhood year, the young Vlad was exposed to the sadistic punishment of Impalement during his childhood time in Galipoli, Ottoman kingdom (Turkey) where he commonly see the punishment of Impalement of Turkish criminals and Ottoman's "political enemy".Such sight and experience leaves a huge mark in him as such he "applied" the same very sadistic punishment back to the Turks and also his other political enemy when he has grown into an adult. Thus earned the name of "Tepez" (Impaler).
Similar story can be found in other "sadistic" historical figure such as Nero or Genghis Khan, all of them exposed and used to commonly observed many "sadistic" act during their childhood years..
-
There are two waays to teach people one is making them hate inmoral things, the other making them love mmoral things. Teh second is preferable to the first.
huruf,
I couldn't agree more with you. Perhaps you will like this deep/intelligent quote by Samuel Smiles, by the way.
It must, however, be admitted that education is not enough. The clever man may be a clever rogue; and the cleverer he is, the cleverer rogue he will be. Education, therefore, must be based upon religion and morality; for education by itself will not eradicate vicious propensities. Culture of intellect has but little eflect upon moral conduct. You may see clever, educated, literary men with no conduct whatever ? wasteful, improvident, drunken, and vicious. It follows, therefore, that education must be based upon the principles of religion and morality.
In terms of lust, there is a very deep/intelligent quote by Samuel Smiles that explains/reveals one of the most, if not the most, important causes of lust. Let me also share that quote in this post.
Daniel Malthus urged his son when at college to be most diligent in the cultivation of knowledge, but he also enjoined him to pursue manly sports as the best means of keeping up the full working power of his mind, as well as of enjoying the pleasures of intellect. " Every kind of knowledge," said he, " every acquaintance with nature and art, will amuse and strengthen your mind, and I am perfectly pleased that cricket should do the same by your arms and legs ; I love to see you excel in exercises of the body, and I think myself that the better half, and much the most agreeable part, of the pleasures of the mind, is best enjoyed while one is upon one's legs." But a still more important use of active employment is that enforced by the great divine, Jeremy Taylor. "Avoid idleness," he says," and fill up all the spaces of thy time with severe and useful employment ; for lust easily creeps in at those emptinesses where the soul is unemployed, and the body is at ease ; for no easy, healthful, idle person was ever chaste if he could be tempted ; but of all employments, bodily labour is the most useful, and of the greatest benefit for driving away the devil.
-
But a still more important use of active employment is that enforced by the great divine, Jeremy Taylor. "Avoid idleness," he says," and fill up all the spaces of thy time with severe and useful employment ; for lust easily creeps in at those emptinesses where the soul is unemployed, and the body is at ease ; for no easy, healthful, idle person was ever chaste if he could be tempted ; but of all employments, bodily labour is the most useful, and of the greatest benefit for driving away the devil.
Very true. You can't change to the better lying on a sofa all day.
-
Lust is more than sexual desire.
-
So are you going to tell us that lust is a strong sexual desire?
Or are you going to say it is even more than that?
I get it ,it "a very string sexual desire",or do you want even more that that?Or have you got your own definition? Is it from the "old lexicons"?
Come on Man Of Faith you need to give us a clue since you know. Yes, tell us how much more of a sexual desire is lust?
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Taking into consideration that the lust in this thread is not lust for power or for other things. It is a sexual desire of some sort.
GOD bless.
Peace. -
Taking into consideration that the lust in this thread is not lust for power or for other things. It is a sexual desire of some sort.
GOD bless.
Peace.Alright, I did notice that, but I objected still to remark on that sexual desire is far from the only human obstacle to avoid.
Sexual lust is a strong drive which from a natural point is understandable since the human is an animal, at least in body.
Lust as a word refers to anything which gives a strong desire to something and it is not necessarily mating. Lust is often associated with sex because it is very easily a strong craving, but truth is you can lust for a little bit of this and that.
You talk in some ridiculing way as if my words have no authority, but I am not using Arabic lexicons to write and define English nor will I do so. Of course words have an etymological origin and lust means the irresistible craving for something, and often related to the sexual such because it is usually seen as a symbol for lust.
But lust can be on various levels and even a little affection by the instinct is detrimental for someone who understands that spiritual development is dependent upon abstention. Lust is simply the strongest level of autonomous behavior due to the animal origin of the body.
Be well
Qarael Amenuel -
I just wrote about "Gudhs" in my reconstruction thread. It really touches on this subject aswell, as Shaytan is an idolater, and "follows his vain desire". So ofcourse ultimately the main concept must be right. Psychology looks at ones close, Freud for instance his mother. But fails to understand the higher, and lacks a real monotheistic philosophy and solution. Instead he ends up with that desire, is the driving force which is ofcourse completely reverse. And Buddhists and Taoists tends to exaggarate, and say one should have no desire. While real monotheism is in line with the purpose of the creator, and allows marriage. The Quran states "Those on your right hand", and also talks about Huri in the afterlife.
-
Lust is very subjective and the same thing even for the same person may not mean the same at diffrent times. I do think that those who fall in temptation usually indulge in border lines thinking that they will not cross them but that hell why not just a bit.
It is not so much that we see nudes or this or that but what we allow ourselves or the attitude we take while those things are in front of our eyes.
Salaam
its a question of statistics
for the majority of the people lust has the same meaning
-
talking about it, heavy discussion, and correct understanding helps.
but only with sheer will power can one overcome lust / temptation.
its a choice one makes.That is it, will, if one is not fully committed, anything will erase borderlines. In fact we want the cake and eat it. It is a matter of accepting that there is no such a thing as having the cake and eating it, and behaving accordingly. Like with most things, we have to shun the worst temptation with is lying to ourselves.
Salaam